old55

I blame myself for getting involved in this.

What do you think of David King? Got burnt in association with Wallace but seems to talk a lot of sense on the radio. Matthew Lloyd is another one I've been impressed with in the media - is actually prepared to do some research. Both premiership players. I think Laidley would be a great consideration too.

You must be joking ... surely.

The whole can be greater than the sum of the parts. With Hale it's not just his raw football output - it's what he offers to the team - Jamar in the ruck and going forward, less defensive pressure on Watts and Jurrah, creation of crumbing goals, a target for midfielders under pressure. Kosi cops a lot of flak but clearly the Saints FD rate him - they just offered him a new 2 yaer deal - they kick a lot of crumbing goals and Riewoldt spends a lot of time in and out of the forward 50 - Kosi adds a lot of structural intangibles to their set-up.

Hale's going to be a role player not a world-beater and our trade offer is valued at this. A picks in the early 30s is hardly premium. If we add a 1st round swap it'll be because BP thinks this draft is very even through that area and we're likely to still get a player we want. Posters are carrying on like we're giving away 2 first rounders. We've got a dozen recently drafted young players who have hardly played and currently aren't in my best 22: Gysberts, Maric, Cheney, McNamara, Tapscott, Gawn, Jetta, Spencer, Bail, Blease, Strauss, Fitzpatrick

I understand what you're saying but we have to trade with North for Hale and whatever we give them will help them. Unfortunately we can't give the picks to Brisbane and get Hale.

I'll bet you a new MFC jumper that if Hale comes to MFC it'll be on a contract that's for longer than 2 years.

They've got the compo pick for Brown at the end of the first round.

Because we're offering him a longer term on comparable money? There's two parts to this deal - North has to be satisfied and Hale has to be satisfied. If there's more than one club involved there's a bidding war on both parts.

It's a new contract between us and Hale. North and Hale both agree to terminate the old contract. If one or other of them doesn't agree to terminate it then it stands. FMD!

Where are we losing a first rounder? Last time I looked 17 was a first rounder 8 picks from the end of the round. We would still have a first round pick - but 5 picks down the order, we would be giving up our second round pick. Do you actually understand the offer? E25, we'd be offering Hale 3 or 4 years (presumably at a bit at less than what he's currently on per year) to get him across - we not only have to satisfy North, we have to entice Hale - he's going to want more security than the 2 years he already has.

No Ottens cost 2 first rounders!

Yeah, yeah http://www.gfc.com.au/tabid/3933/default.aspx?newsid=94878 "The deal enabled the Cats to secure Brad Ottens from Richmond and there is little doubt that without Ottens Geelong would still be searching for its first flag since 1963. The deal was far from popular at the time, with Moloney a favourite among the Cats faithful for his hard nosed style of play. "

No - I'm not keen on giving Scully, Trengove, Watts, 12, 32 and 49 but it's equally pointless talking about pick 45 if the Hawks and GC are in the market at around pick 26. 32 is the last 2nd round pick in an uncompromised year and the downgrade from 12 to 17 is not necessarily a big deal - clubs often have different player ratings and we could still get the player we wanted at 17 - this happens all the time. I don't see that offer "selling the farm" and I reckon it's about my limit - I want to stay in the first round because I think we can get another very good player - I think BP is a very smart recruiter.

The Hawks compo pick will be 26 depending on who else exercises one. Each club that exercises one pushes our 2nd rounder back a pick - the minimum difference is 26 to 33 and that is easily better whichever way you look at - we'd have to sweeten 33 to compete with 26 - how hard is that to understand? So yes maybe 12 + 32 for Hale + 17 is better than 26 and that's why we offered it.

Hawks don't have to use their 1st rounder - they have the compensation pick for Campbell Brown at the end of the first round - that easily beats our 2nd rounder and it beats GC 1st pick in the 2nd round. Think about - if a team with an excellent list building reputation like the Hawks is offering this pick and we need to go to the offer described above to be competitive with it then that sets Hale's value, not "oh I reckon he's worth about pick 45".

yeah I agree with that - Bate's apparent lack of agility probably hurts him there - I think he's gouing to need to work hard on his game to lock in a place - there's a lot of competition from medium forwards who are strong defensively and can kick goals - Dunn and Petterd.

I really hope the deal gets done because I want our FD to get what they want to take us to the flag. They obviously rate Hale to provide structure that we need to progress. There's been plenty of talk about getting games into young players but thiose games have to be in the right structure otherwise they can't learn the patterns we are going to play. Pies players said it took 2-3 years to get them playing their game-plan right. Fitzy or Gawn aren't going to provide this for years - wasted development years for our entire team. Hale's rucking ability will enable Jamar to get deep and he really is a massive headache for defenders. The hysteria in this thread is predictable, just take a deep breath, despite inaccurate protestations: - we're NOT losing a first round pick, just down grading one and losing a late 2nd rounder - it's not a major unheralded direction change, Bailey has said he wants a tall target and he clearly foreshadowed the possibility of trading early picks to fill a need.

You can almost feel the spittle

There's panic alright but it's not from the FD. If this goes thru let's trust the FD and look forward to David Hale MFC premiership player.

Don't necesarily agree with that - North don't want Hale on $400k a year in the VFL They can't trade him somewhere he doesn't want to go - Hale has some leverage

BF reported that GC offered 26 so if we want Hale, and it appears that our FD does really want him, then we have to better that. As posted above maybe 17 is not that much different to 12. Maybe North knows that too and that's why they baulked. I think the first thing to get used to is our FD likes Hale even if many here have doubts. As also posted above we have a massive pile of untested youngsters and we could benefit from some structure and a ruck support. Going into 2011 with PJ does not excite me. Trading for the sake of it doesn't either. Rick Nixon said a club inquired about Hale in July - fair bet that was us and that we've had a good long hard look at him. Deep breath and maintain the faith.

Big move to uproot his family to the GC for one extra year. He could punt that he'll have another good year with us and get an extension at the end of 2011. He's on our VL and we don't free space by moving him, even at the end of next year so I think we'd keep him if he's still playing well. At half-back it's Bruce, Grimes and Macdonald at present for 2 spots.

I saw that on Big Footy - yeah I know - but it came from North posters who seem to have a bit of a clue.

It's very hards to see North getting a pick in the 20s AND get rid of Hale $400K/year.