rpfc

Just off the topic of the thread here but: you should have stopped when you said "I read this over at BF." There is no reference, that I can see, to a third year. If you have two years, in a row, of 4 wins or less, you will get a PP before the draft. That may be complicated by the compromised drafts coming up but BF is often wrong, and I believe they are wrong here.

Freo won't get a PP before the draft, but after the first round. To me, 1 and 3 is essentially 1 and 2 in this draft. There is one standout and about 4 or 5 even players.

I don't know what he got wrong (nothing that I can see), but you have our second round pick wrong. 1. Melb, 2.WCE, 3.Melb, 4.WCE.....19.Melb, 20.WCE....

I don't want to put words in H's mouth but I think he is equating those that want to win only one more game this year to wanting a flag over any other concern. Tanking or list managing gets us closer to that flag than not, so H sees it as a no-brainer. It would interesting to see if anyone voted A but hopes we don't tank from here on in.

OK. Now I want to change my NO to a YES. Jaded, any help?

To me, you are trying to argue that the club employs these iniatives to make sure it is still around in decades to come, but that, considering the question posed by H, would imply that the 'sole reason for the club to exist' is to ensure its own existence. You may not think you are arguing a circlular argument, but when applied to the question asked - you are.

I read it. "a flag is the sole reason of a competing club existing" And you are arguing against that by saying that existing is the sole reason the club exists. That is circular.

Exist, yes. But exist to win a flag. You can't simply say that this club exists so it can exist. That is circular logic at its worst.

Winning flags is the raison detre of footy clubs. Simple as that. Edited: 'For' or 'of'....

If you are so non-plussed about winning a flag, you should join a social club. Upgrade your membership at the Bentleigh Club and enjoy the amenities. I want to sit on top of 15 clubs and say 'we do this better than you.' 'Checker' Hughes changed our name from a flower to the Demons. Why did he do that? I'm sure in doing that he offended some pious supporters with this distasteful reference of evil. He didn't care, all that mattered was how it affected the club on the field. He wanted us to play like Demons.

Matty Bate had 7 tackles two games in row this year, in our two most recent wins, AND he kicked 2 goals 1 in each, AND he had an assist in both games. The next week he had 4 tackles and kicked 3 goals. If Newton played "bloody well" how is Bater going? That's right, you have already stated that he isn't up to it. You are marking Newton so high because his base is so low. Judge him against what he should be doing and not compared to what he used to give. With that in mind, he was satisfactory on the weekend.

2010? Are energies should be focussed on developing a flag-winning team - we are building for 2012 onwards. If you don't see Newton as the answer beyond 2010, then what is the point? He'd just get in the way of Watts' development.

Then you must hated the last two and a half years. We have had the cue in the rack and been 'tanking' or 'list managing' or whatever, since ND played Newton in his last game. And Bailey played Weetra in his first game... Now if that isn't list managing...

Winning a flag is the raison detre of the club. Otherwise, why are playing football? And in the highest league? And with suddenly two development coaches? Etc. And we do Demon Heartland to grow our base of support to grow our membership levels so that we can spend more on getting that flag. Companies give money to charities and involve themselves in charity work for PR and employee fulfillment purposes. Clubs do it for the same reason. We do it to be seen 'to give something back,' call me cynical and I will remind you to pass the threshold into the real world. Why do you think you read about the charities we work with? Because we call up the Hun and the Age... Being involved in volunteer or charity work makes one a more rounded person. A more rounded, level person is of use to footy clubs as they make good footy players. Everything comes back to winning, and winning flags. If it didn't we would be a social club, not a footy club. Maybe I have gone past the mark, are we a footy club?

What the hell are some people on about?! If winning a flag in the AFL isn't the single effing thing we think about, why don't we just go and play in the VFL and enjoy ourselves? We wouldn't have to pay anyone and the fans could play, we could all get [censored] afterwards and go on about how we much we loved playing in the red and the blue. We get the players, the coaches, the recruiting staff, the facilities, the members, the sponsors, and the PR blokes towards one elusive end: A PREMIERSHIP. And yes, it's still enjoyable to go and watch Liam Jurrah play when we are losing, but if I didn't think he would apart of an MFC Premiership team I wouldn't bother. Harden up, and get your priorities in order...

I don't know. I reckon he'd do alright. Only 22. And NRL isn't dying. It's decomposing...and starting to smell... The northern states are going to need a sh!tload of Air Wick...

Goalkicking? That's in his head. That sh!t is easy. Building up his upper body isn't. He hasn't done the work - his arms have less definition than Bate and Matty spent his first two years on a wing. He's a hard working, lead up forward that has 23 goals and 19 assists in the worst team in the AFL with the worst delivery. I have no idea what that extra 5 or 10 percent involves, but I know that he will benefit from a better midfield providing more frequent and pinpoint service. He is already a good player, he will be better when we are half decent.

I understand your conflicted. But, just on this bolded part: we have lost 50 games since 2007. The PP was invented to help basket cases like us. I would feel aggrieved and disappointed with the club if we got our 53rd loss against St Kilda in Rd 22 and not our 54th loss - because it would be the MFC not letting the system help it out of its funk.

Agree. The handwringing on here was of proportions not seen since the last days of ND. Collingwood are the third best side in the comp, they were always going to smash us...twice.

Thankyou for sharing that. Appreciated. Especially that allusions that we will go hard for the PP. Now, about the grammar...

I'm just getting frustrated with those that claim a moral superiority over myself because they don't want to lose games for picks, and then accuse players of missing goals on purpose. It makes no bloody sense. TB - If you reading this, you are confused and I get that but you need to comprehend why we are doing what we are doing. Because, right now, you understand. But you're way off comprehending.

I think he is equating people's views who think the club shouldn't go out of its way to only win one more game, with a lack of desire to do what needs to be done to try and win a flag.

So do I. And if he were 22 and didn't have his history of OP I would give Pick 2 for him. But that isn't the case and we have McLean, Moloney, and Jones as, admittedly less talented, inside midfielders. But their contracts are managable and they have a greater longevity in the game than Ball. If he comes through the PSD than all well and good but we should be trading FOR high draft picks, not trading them away.

Are you accusing Miller, again, of missing goals on purpose? You claim to be a True Believer, but you accuse a member of the leadership group of going out on the field and deliberately not giving 100%? Player's don't tank. Read through the threads and understand how we are tanking or 'list managing' and you will feel alot better about life. Player's don't tank.

Didn't you want to delist Petterd a few weeks ago? Buckley definitely stays then.