JimmyGadson

Lewis saying that some of the things Kosi does onfield remind him of the one and only Cyril Rioli? Hardly surprising. Not sure why some can't believe that comment, or have morphed it into a Cyril Vs Pickett debate. Pickett possess similar traits, without question. His evasiveness, reaction time and vision are all at the top top end. And they're traits that were stamped to Cyril. The ability to turn a contest at which your team is at a disadvantage into a win and then shot on goal. It's the pressure acts, the follow up and the delivery through vision that sets these guys apart. It's incredible to watch. There were a number of passages of play where Pickett produced those type of passages and as he gets fitter, stronger and more confident we'll only see more. Obviously the two players have differences and I'd argue that Cyril has him covered in some areas. I had the pleasure of watching Cyril play at Scotch College as a school boy. But that's not the point. It's that Pickett possesses some extremely rare and valuable attributes that all teams would be desperate for. We're extremely fortunate to have him and watching his career unfold will be spectacular.

Hahaha. Kossie will be unbelievable. He has every trick a small forward needs, his pressure is brilliant and the only thing stopping him is clearly his tank. He did things last year that nobody in our side can do in terms of creating openings and chances at scores where normally there'd be none. He is unreal.

For a player who played the majority of his underage footy as an inside mid, he is the least physical player I've seen. As a half forward, the only reason he knocks up decent tackle numbers is because an opposition player nearly always lunges at a loose ball with more ferocity and desperation and ANB has the opportunity to wrap that player up in a tackle. Now some of that may be by design given Goodwin's game plan has always relied upon outnumbering at the contest but if you look across the AFL at the really good half forwards, they all offer a whole lot more than just being able to provide an extra number at contests. ANB offers very little other than his elite running ability and I've always maintained the sooner Goodwin makes a fookin upgrade to that position, the better. But it is Goodwin. So naturally I expect to see him lining up at half forward come round 1.

Mate. I agree with you.

And you're equally welcome to take a break from posting matey. A few too many are to your name and not enough in return for the reader.

I just don't see how this theory can be correlated with our current state as a footy side. The players aren't ready to perform consistently due to a variety of reasons. You speak about it in such simple terms. Using your example of the two games that in your view were the reason we didn't play finals last year, your diagnosis is that the players simply didn't 'turn up'..?! It's far more nuanced. Just as it was when we consistently played an underdeveloped and underperforming Oscar McDonald for the amount of time we did in our side. These things fall on Goodwin. Selection, gameplan, connection, player positions, gameday strategy, messaging, communication etc etc. Honestly, use google to find the evidence binman. It's there. And if you didn't hear it, then maybe you don't watch enough football. People from Ross Lyon to Jason Dunstall and many in between have made comment on how easy we are to play against. A head coach takes full responsibility for moulding a team over a period of time to play a certain way. We've been losing in an almost identical manner for three years now under Goodwin, and he has been too slow to make change to the list in general, positional change and change in the way play. If any Melbourne supporter disagrees with that last sentence, please give me a reason to listen you.

Sounds like an interesting book. But it's still one person's opinion and theory on the matter. A person who has no background in high level sport, let alone our indigenous game of AFL. I'm not really interested in other teams Binman nor am I interested in where we've been pre-Goodwin era. There are many footy experts both in the media and or who work within the AFL who know full well that Goodwin's shortcomings as a coach in a variety of areas are the main contributing factor as to why we are a middle of the road side right now. Also, for someone who (wrongly) defended Oscar's performances as an individual for so long, it's hard to understand why in this case you're happy to put the acid on the players rather than Goodwin in certain instances. This idea of 'not turning up' etc is so simplistic. I could sit here and write an essay on why Goodwin is the majority reason of our stagnation, I'm just not sure many want to read it.

Wowsa you've missed out arguably the most important responsibility a coach holds. Gameplan. Since 2018, Goodwin has been too slow to make changes to an unbelievable one-dimensional game plan which in-turn has seen us select the same side for too long, have the same problems during games for too long and lose games in a similar fashion for too long. Goodwin is largely responsible for where we are as a club. The two losses you speak about can still be linked to the same problem areas we've seen for this entire period I'm speaking about. It's nothing new.

Hate to say I told you so, but..

Can't believe we passed up on bringing in an inside midfielder with questionable foot skills!

There was positional reshuffling before he decided to go, mate. Get the facts right. My post was in regards to the number of off-field changes we've made over the last two years which is clearly alarming. I'll continue to question the decisions of the club until we see the "sustained success" that has been bandied about from the Roos and Jackson rebuild. The club has continued to put unwavering faith in Goodwin and his vision which has seen everyone else around and even above him go. That's a big deal and something that had a negative impact on the group this year. We sorely lacked quality assistant coaches for one and I think supporters underestimate the ripple effect that had in a variety of ways across the club. I'm a different kind of supporter to the happy-go-luckies and from past interactions with you, I understand you're one of them. Good for you.

You know a club is far from being solid when the reshuffling, pushing out the door and sackings continue for consecutive years. Two years gone and how many names from coaches through to FD personnel have gone? Would love to see a list. We're a strange club. Basically all on Goodwin this year and if we fail to make the 8, we'll start seeing players want to leave. You can bank it. After a decade of failed rebuilds resulting in an AFL intervention in which we were basically given Paul Roos and Peter Jackson on platter, we finally get a rebuild right and now we find ourselves here. An supremely talented but under-performing list with a dysfunctional coaching group and FD which is in no way stabilizing and in my view is having a much greater impact on our playing group then many would like to think. Never ceases to amaze. Gone from die hard fan to interested observer. Almost as if I'm watching an Attenborough doco at times.

The deal for Brown was always going to be done. With or without the Preuss pick.

Just unbelievably bizarre all round. You'd think the club would want to hold on to that sort of potential if that's what Max genuinely believes. Max is 29 going into next year. I genuinely don't understand the club sometimes. The risk of Max getting injured goes up again given his age and we have a 19 year old kid as backup atm. Do we think Tom mac would cut it as a backup? Preuss could have seen out his contract and Goodwin could have stuck fat and played him in tandem more often. Why hasn't that happened? I mean, he played Tom Mac and Melksham for half a year, both of whom should have been dropped many many times. Preuss has been developing under Max. Next year was the year to play them together, his value would have gone up and then we sell him to the highest bidder at the end of his contract if need be. It allows Jackson to come in and out of the side and to develop the way a young key position player should be developed. Make him hungry. So strange.

Wishful thinking. They may want four picks in the draft but as if they're going to do a deal like that to get one extra speculative pick in the 50's. That's without mentioning that this is most speculative draft year we'll have seen due to covid and one heavily compromised due to academy and father/son players. A melbourne supporter trade if ever I've heard one.

All I can say is that you just have absolutely no idea what you're on about if you can't see the difference in the way Oscar's career has been handled compared to those you mentioned. Surely I don't need to baby you through Oscar's case study again. Did I ever once mention that it's unprecedented for players to be delisted under the age of 25? How on earth are you unable to differentiate between the way Oscar's career was managed vs Newton's?

@binmanwith all due respect, it's near impossible to talk to you about Oscar. It wasn't long ago you were making bets that he wouldn't be dropped over the course of a season, then it turned to how many games he'd play in a year or something.. Now he's been delisted and you're trying to catch me out for something I've never said in the hope he's going to land a rookie contract somewhere? You're like the black knight from Python's 'The Holy Grail'. I get that you're super passionate about the guy. Good for you. But you're wrong about him when it comes to assessing his ability at league level. If we can all agree, (which we can), that there are plenty of footballers in this country who could be playing AFL level football but are not for varying reasons, then we can surely agree that there are footballers who have been and are playing AFL football who perhaps shouldn't be, also for varying reasons. I don't understand this black and white 'AFL standard' BS that posters talk about. Oscar obviously has some level of ability and along with a myriad of factors, he ended up being drafted to a team extremely light on for key position depth and quality who ultimately decided that playing him early would fast track his development rather than building him through the twos. In my estimation, that was an error. I said it at the time and ultimately, fast forward six years and the guy has been delisted. Not even kept for backup. What does that tell you @binman? I mean really, what does it tell you? Oscar at best was serviceable. And at worst was a complete and utter liability. He did not develop and his weaknesses were so clearly magnified at AFL level. He lacked intensity and was too slow in his movement. Take note that I'm not saying "I told you so". But you must wake up and smell the roses mate. He is not the player you thought he was and the club failed him as well.

Your assessment simply doesn't add up. Oscar has been delisted at age 24. He could not be relied upon due to his deficiencies and he became a liability because of them. Supporters could see that and the criticism came. How anyone can argue that still astonishes me. He is gone at age 24. I repeat. Delisted.

No, it's indisputable due to the overwhelming amount of criticism he received compared to any other player on our list over that period and due to the fact that he has been delisted at age 24, with not one club interested in him over the trade period. Key position players at age 24 are not delisted off a whim. The club refused to address our lack of key position depth and talent for too long. Oscar played as an underdeveloped and underperforming player for near the entirety of his career. The sheer amount of supporter backlash toward him as an individual is evidence of that. How can you argue it? Sure it sucks, but that's the reality. The club is at fault.

The club is entirely to blame for the sheer amount of criticism Oscar copped over his career. They just simply kept playing him, underdeveloped, underperforming, hoping that he'd come on and ultimately he never did. I agree that Oscar copped a lot. Unfairly only because he was consistently relied upon over the years to hold down a key position whilst underperforming more often than not. Posters are beyond out of touch if they truly believe he was never as bad as what some like myself believed. I get the emotion involved in being a supporter and posters like @binmanwho consistently defended him because he was a favourite. Oscar simply shouldn't have been playing AFL football on many many occasions during his career and that is absolutely indisputable given the fact that he didn't find a suitor over the trade period and has now been delisted at under 25 years of age. Think about that for a minute. It's near unprecedented. Honestly, this club make some absolutely bizarre decisions sometimes and they are to blame entirely for the way Oscar was managed, developed and then delisted. An embarrassment really. Whilst I was never a fan (and couldn't for the life of me understand why the club wouldn't target a mature-aged stop gap gorilla to allow Oscar to develop in the twos), I wish him all the best in his future endeavours. One can only hope the club has learnt from this one because they did everyone including Oscar a disservice in the way they managed him.

That @Dr evilfella shut up shop pretty quickly.

Haha, unreal. I've been reading and posting on this forum for years, as many have, and there have been countless posters who have shared what they've heard and stated it plainly and clearly. Prefacing what they post by stating it is indeed second hand info. Posters like that are appreciated by the vast majority on here and if a troll or two put them off for posting that info then I don't know why they post on forums. The vast majority wouldn't have said diddly squat to you either. And your info was appreciated by the vast majority before you made your bed by responding to individual posts on several occasions stating in bold that Smith was 100% signed, sealed, delivered. The problem is yours and yours alone. And whoever the posters were that msged you, they either made the same mistake you did, or their tolerance for questioning from a select few trolls is not where it needs to be on a platform like this. @CHFshould know that whatever info they share is appreciated by the great majority, and as long as they keep sharing what they've heard, without jumping the gun early and making silly statements several times, they will not be bothered by the great majority.

Everyone loves rumour speculation during trade period about our club. CHF is presenting it perfectly. Take note @Dr evilat the way @CHFconsistently states, "I am hearing" and at no stage has stated "player X is 100% coming to our club, nobody needs to worry". I would have thought the difference in posting style is fairly obvious. Nobody is going to pot you if you post information in the right manner. It's pretty easy really.

I thought school had gone back? Seems to be one of these threads started every two weeks.

Stef Martin as a CHB lol.