titan_uranus

I think this has to be acknowledged. Take Collingwood as a counter point. After Round 7, they only left Melbourne three times (Gold Coast in Round 15, Sydney in Round 20, Fremantle in Round 23). By comparison, we left Melbourne seven times in the same period. Granted, two of those are our own fault (NT games). Also, only once in that period did we play consecutive games at the same venue - Rounds 20 and 21 at the G vs GC and Sydney. We were on the move a lot in the latter two-thirds of our fixture. We went to the NT twice, Adelaide twice, Geelong and Perth. The week off helped us refresh, but then to have two finals and back that up with a trip to Perth with a side as young as ours surely took its toll physically. I think the above, about our fixture/travel, will have played a role in our tackle count being low. I also think West Coast's marking game meant we simply couldn't tackle as much as we would have liked. The uncontested marks came a lot from their superior work rate which, again, will have in part come from our fatigue. That's not the only reason, though. Our heads dropped with all those first quarter turnovers and that didn't help. Their mids were also just so much stronger than ours (Redden, Shuey, Yeo and Sheed are all older and stronger than Oliver, Brayshaw, Harmes and even Viney).

Sometimes I feel like Demonland doesn't give opponents enough credit. Saying we lost yesterday because of our game plan is effectively saying "we'd have won with a better game plan", which completely disrespects West Coast. We lost yesterday because West Coast were so good that we weren't able to compete with them in critical areas - contested ball and marking. They beat us at the contest and they beat us in the air, and that's pretty much that when it comes to trying to win games of football. I loved Weideman's first two finals but he was nowhere yesterday, Hogan's reliability for marks on the wing and across half-forward will assist us, as will Lever's ability to break up opposition possession chains (we just couldn't stop them yesterday).

I think we'd have been a better side this year with Garlett at his absolute best, as well if Hunt had taken the next step rather than gone backwards. The development we put into Spargo and Fritsch will hold us in good stead going forward but what Garlett and Hunt are capable of bringing to our side is what we often find ourselves to be lacking when we struggle. Not the only two things to work on, though. I'd also love to see Kent become a regular but his body has to be a concern. I'm not sure we can ask for us to be undefeated against the bottom 10 every season. Yes, Collingwood did it, and we should always be aiming to win games against sides below us (and the bottom 10 should all be below us next year...!), but most sides don't get through the year without one poor loss. If we had to target one home and away season problem, IMO it would be the close losses - 0-5 in games decided by under two goals is where we lost our top 4 spot, I think. My hope is that the Adelaide and West Coast wins and the two finals wins have helped us learn how to win close games and how to win in front of big crowds, so hopefully next year when we're in close games we are able to do better than a 0% success rate.

What has Round 23 last year got to do with this year? They made the GF and we didn't, so they've had a better year than us even if they don't win the flag. But last year hasn't got anything to do with it. If you want an example of Collingwood thrashing us why not just refer to Queen's Birthday this year?

Up there in the list of biggest disappointments for 2018, IMO, is Garlett. The way we played this year, with the volume of inside 50s and ground balls to be won in there, should have suited him. Spargo was generally good but Garlett at his best would have been much, much more impactful.

Fair enough. To be fair, I think yesterday OMac might have been carrying an injury, as he went off early and didn't seem to be able to run properly for the rest of the game. I also think that if we do persist with them, a full pre-season of the two of them learning to zone off and read each other and work together, with Lever (if he's back to training at some point over the summer), will make them a better unit.

They've been doing it all year though. The two you've mentioned are poor set shots at goal, which may well come into it.

They're the worst-credentialled GF side I can remember. (99% sour grapes from me)

Rubbish. We won two games in front of 90,000+ as the favourites both times. You can't say we're weak under pressure every time we lose.

There are few things I cannot stand more than "X has gone past us". Didn't Adelaide, Port Adelaide and Essendon "pass us" last year? It truly is a mind-numbingly stupid way to look at things.

Jones cannot be co-captain in 2019. As has been mentioned, we need the flexibility too be able to drop him if the trajectory continues the way it is going, and if he's captain that becomes borderline impossible.

I was with you all week on this, but time to let it go, Clint. Fritsch over Tyson yesterday would only, at best, have made a tiny difference, and not to the overall outcome. Can't wait to see him back on a flank or wing next year though, with a full pre-season.

It's all about context. Olisik almost never posts anything positive and only pops up to pot players. So, when he does it, people get frustrated. For what reason? Do we go with two key defenders plus Lever? He may as well start every post between now and Round 1 with "0 goals to half time in a preliminary final". Feels like he's written that in every post so far. There we go. I was wondering how long it would take for your "we lost therefore we failed" attitude to return. What sort of hard/harsh decisions do you mean? Sack half the side? Sack Goodwin? Or do you mean Lewis, Jones and Tyson (all of whom would have been looked at post-2018 even if we'd won the flag)?

Yes but in the first two finals our forward pressure was ridiculously good. Let's not throw the baby out with the bathwater here. Melksham's last month and first two finals were immense, Petracca this week and last week actually played well, Hannan was one of the few forwards who actually showed some pace and made some space today. Forward pressure was not our biggest problem today, by far. Our biggest problem was our midfield being belted at contested ball. We lost that count once all year, and our last four wins (and indeed all our wins) were based on winning contested ball and going from there. Losing it today put the pressure on our young side to work out what to do and how to turn it around, and we failed. Whilst we were failing to turn it around, we were unable to play the game at either end the way we are used to, and both ends failed - the defence failed to zone properly and were caught out too often because West Coast took the ball from clearances too easily and won all of the important contests, and the forwards weren't able to make an impact because the delivery to them was poor and was on West Coast's terms. Our game starts and ends with contested ball. When we're at our best (see the last four weeks) we dominate in that area and we put our opponent on the back foot. Everything flows from that. We need to be able to turn momentum through the middle within a game, and we also need to be able to adjust around the ground when we're not able to dominate at contested ball.

I was posting in response to complaints that the Demons of old failed to stand up on the big stage. Nothing to do with how I feel about the game. Fork 'em, your comment that every time there's a carrot we carp ourselves might have been true earlier this year, but after the past month is it really that big of a problem? We needed to beat West Coast in Perth to make the finals, and we did. We needed to beat GWS to earn a home final and we did. We had our season on the line against 90,000 in the Elimination Final and we won.

In the first two weeks, particularly vs Geelong when we needed to calm our early finals nerves, it was TMac who was taking those big marks. Nowhere to be seen today. Add Hogan to TMac and Weideman next year and we'll have those marking options.

This is the kind of stuff I don't get. We're just coming off two consecutive finals wins in front of 90,000+ against sides we've hardly beaten for 15 years, and you're going on about "the big stage" being the problem?

Lewis was probably our worst today. So many critical errors at critical times. But Jones was terrible, Gawn played his worst game for the year, Oliver was poor and possibly also played his worst game for the year, TMac was unsighted. Both Lewis and Jones are coming to the end and it's going to be interesting to see what we do with them in 2019.

6 - vandenberg 5 - Harmes 4 - Petracca 3 - Hibberd 2 - Salem 1 - Brayshaw

First one was a Lewis mistake. Second (or third?) was Frost's handball being fumbled by Brayshaw. Where is Tyson involved in either of those?

Agree with the sentiment. We cannot approach football by saying it's the flag or it's bust. To make a prelim after 12 years of not even being able to make the finals, to win four consecutive games against the top 8, to win two finals in front of 90,000+ against sides we traditionally lose to, all with TMac, Viney, Lever and Hogan missing 5+ games each this year, makes this season a resounding success.Obviously we had our chance this year and we don't just automatically get that chance again next year, but we cannot simply write off all of the amazing positives this year gave us because of today.

That happened again today but it was nothing like those other earlier losses. In those early games we dominated possession through the middle, dominated clearances and CPs, turned those into a dominance of inside 50s, but failed to score. Today we couldn't get our hands on the ball. The only reason we won the inside 50 count is because West Coast took their foot off the pedal in the second half.

Absolutely gutted. It's not that we lost, it's how. We lost the CP count once all year, but we were hammered in CPs from the opening bounce. We laid at least 50 tackles in every game this year, but today just 34. We haven't played like that all year. It was just so un-Melbourne and that is what is so demoralising, we didn't even put our best foot forward. During the first quarter we were trying so hard to keep our head above water and stay close to them, but all four of their goals came from appalling turnovers. We were missing targets under their pressure and we just never settled. Then in the second quarter we couldn't even get our hands on the ball. It was one of those days where everything went right for them (smothers would end up in their hands, the bounce of the ball seemed to always go their way, Nicholls doesn't reverse the 50 when McGovern throat-punches Viney), but that largely happens when one side works harder than the other. Trying to work out why this happened is the harder bit. I'm sure part of it is fatigue. Not just the fact that it's the end of a long season and we're fielding a young side, but as has been mentioned we've been playing finals effectively for 6 weeks, since the first West Coast game. We won 4 in a row but to win 5 or 6 in a row is hard enough at the best of times, let alone all against finals sides. There's nothing we can do now but learn from our mistakes and focus on what needs to be improved: not just based on today's loss, but based on the entire season.

Unbelievable. Literally losing every facet of the game. The old Melbourne is back - too many at the ball, losing inside, losing outside, not tackling, dropping our heads. Aim from here has to be to win the half, at least restore some pride and undo some of the paychological damage this game will cause if it keeps going this way.

Disastrous. All 4 goals from turnovers. Can’t hit a target. Belted in CPs. Nothing going right.