Wiseblood

I agree, and I think we have plenty of players with experience on our list who will be able to put their hands up throughout the early stages of the year. But having Vandenberg available for selection will hopefully spur him on a bit more and he can get a run in the seniors if his form warrants it.

And that prize recruit, Freeman, has been tearing up the track during this pre-season. It's well summed up R&B, and puts things into perspective.

If we want to look at some positives then it probably means that Vandenberg will certainly get a run, and he has the tools to come in and contribute from Round 1. Of course we would all rather Petracca was out there but it sounds as though Vanders has been good during this pre-season so I'm keen to see what he can do with his opportunity.

Horrible news for the kid, but time is on his side and we now, thankfully, have the depth to cover it for the near future. We'll be right.

And all we can do is keep our fingers crossed that it's only minor and won't keep him out for too long.

Shhhh binman, that makes too much sense. He wants it closed so we can all read his report on the injury and ignore everything else.

You are such a silly sod sometimes Saty. I like how you completely write off someone else's report on the injury, which if history is anything to go by is going to be the more accurate report, and ask mods to close the thread so we can all trot over and read yours. You just love yourself a bit, don't you big fella?

I called you the Messiah a post ago, but that's okay. I guess you're just a very naughty boy. Every coach wants players to be good kicks. Doesn't mean they will be. And I hate to remind you that the Jetta example is awful. I know you love him, and I mean LOVE him, but he wad delisted due to injuries and not being able to have a proper run at it. His delisting was justified, as was his eventual promotion back to the senior list. As I mentioned, but you overlooked, he had the skills already in place - he just needed to have the luck with injuries, and when he did he made good on it. M. Jones has at no point struggled with injuries - he has just struggled with the skills of kicking and making the right decisions, things that are so much harder to teach. And as a side note, I don't mind Ro Bail but I was baffled, like so many others, as to why Dean Terlich got another contract.

I don't read your training reports at all, I read the others. The only reason I commented back to you was your assertion that Jones would have to play himself out of the side, and then a few posts later you said Roos wanted "22 damaging kicks". I was commenting on the irony in this, as if Roos wants this in place (and it's as if you sit down with him at each session and get this out of him the way you talk about it, which you don't, so stop talking as if you do) then M. Jones can't be in the side. At no point have I said players cannot improve. However, guys like Dunn and Jetta have always had a certain level of skill set that has allowed them to improve and stay on the list when others, like a Dan Nicholson, are cut. He was a great trainer, a great runner... and he couldn't improve his kicking and decision making, which meant that the modern game was too much for him. I see the same in Matt Jones. He wouldn't get a run in any side within the Top 14 clubs from last year. He turns the ball over and makes bad decisions on a consistent basis. I'd love to see him somehow improve, and I can handle looking 'foolish' as you put it, but I don't see it happening. Training can only get out of players what they are capable of, and M. Jones has reached his peak for me.

I was the one who brought up Morton in relation to Jones and how he has been training. I made the comparison that both could run to the right spot and make space, but both lack the right skill set to finish it off and make correct decisions. I think mentioning Morton, in that context, was valid. And I am sure you have attended every training session. Those of us with jobs can't be so lucky, but that still doesn't make you the messiah when it comes to best 22. If being a Melbourne fan over the last decade has taught us anything then it's that we can't put much stock in training - how many times has someone improved their skill level or worked hard etc at training, only to be a huge let down come the season proper? Too many times to count in my book. From where I sit, and going by what I've seen of someone like Matt Jones on match day and not during simulated training sessions where there is little pressure, is that if he is in our best 22 then we aren't going forward as a club. By now we should have more than enough talent and skill level on our list that makes Jones, a guy who works hard to get the best out of himself, no more than a depth player. I'd be worried if it were otherwise, but I'm more than happy to have him on our list in that role as his commitment levels have always been terrific. I'm always stoked to hear that the intensity, belief etc is well and truly up and that the standards and expectations have risen. It's fantastic. But to make sweeping statements about players and how much their skill level has risen is going way, way over the top. Like I said, if Matt Jones is in the best 22 then as a supporter I would be a little worried.

Both of these players had skills though. Dunn's kicking is sublime and Jetta knows how to hit a target, plus both a good under pressure. Jones is neither of these things. He's a depth player at best.

I don't necessarily disagree with this, however, we habitually put far too much credence into what the boys are doing at training. All I want to hear is that the intensity is good, the boys are working on improving the gameplan and that we have only a few injuries to worry about. Skill level can improve but we get too carried away with it when we see blokes hitting targets under little to no pressure. We've all seen how a guy like Matt Jones has gone with the ball in hand when put under some pressure and, going by last season, he doesn't deserve a spot in our best 22. NAB Challenge will be the opportunity to show these 'improvements', and I'm happy to be wrong, but Matt Jones wouldn't get a run in any side that finished in the Top 12 last season and that tells us all we need to know going forward.

It wouldn't matter to me how much training I've seen over the summer - unless it improves on match day then it hasn't improved at all, training or not. Any bloke with a foot can look good without the pressure that match day brings, whether that be in some match sim or during some drills. He is only as good as his last season, and his last season showed his skills and decision making to be average at best. Until he can consistently show improvement on match day then I put no stock in training at all.

A combination of both I think. His decision making is average at best, but we've also see him miss targets when he has some time and space. Both of them together doesn't make a good combination. I've always like Matt Jones' endeavour and his ability to run with the footy, something we've lacked a bit of in the past. But what has excited me about our list is that we now don't need to play guys like Jones on a consistent basis because we have better players to choose from. That's not a knock on Jones, as he always gives 100%, but he simply shouldn't be a guy who plays regular senior footy.

And if we want dangerous kicks then Matt Jones isn't in our best 22. If he looks to be improving then that's fine, but if you go by his past few seasons then we all know that he is prone to big mistakes and missing simple targets. The modern game demands that players are good kicks of the footy, and he is not one of them. No doubt he breaks the lines and he can run to position, but Cale Morton could do that too. Jones is a handy depth player, but he isn't best 22 in a side that wants to play finals football by the end of 2016.

Unless PJ gets annoyed at us for not wanting to re-sign him and wants out and Cook has no interest in coming to us. Then it's a loss/loss and, frankly, something we all don't want. Just stick with PJ, although I don't think there is much truth at all to this story.

Thanks to Ruffles, Caligula and Tux for the spot on training reports. Always a succinct read guys and free of stuff no-one wants to read. Cheers fellas.

Tsk, tsk...

He is just as much to blame as anyone else. However I'm looking forward to hearing from the others who will be able to make it down and provide a straight up report. It's always appreciated.

I'd be interested to see how clubs handled it if players began naming their club of choice mid-season. If Malceski had done it, for example, would the Swans have dropped him for the rest of the year or played him because they were having a crack at a flag? If Chip had done it would we have dropped him or kept playing him to help us be, theoretically, more competitive?

Whether or not he reads it doesn't change the fact he is 100% correct.

No-one is perfect here. So shoot us if we missed one article 7 years ago and that our lives don't revolve completely and totally around the club.

Agreed, Ruffles and George bringing in the good stuff today! Cheers fellas!

Ripping report Ruffles. You should get down there more often!

It's unbelievable stuff mate. Imagine players, without the pressure of gameday and direction from coaches on the field, would hit targets and actually do a few things well. It's like we're in fantasy land...