stevethemanjordan

We have an opportunity to annihilate one of our rivals at the G. Who wouldn't want to be there to witness that?

Haven't seen the guy up close so I wouldn't know. Just pointing out that neither listing is 'clear' if Vandenberg is noticeably taller than Broadbent, which is what you claim. Yeh, it would be one or the other. But the way you worded the last sentence implied that the listing for Broadbent is correct and the listing for Vanders is wrong. So it sounded like it did indeed escape you. Cheers.

Yeh well we don't have a fantastic record of beating heavily under-manned teams comfortably. In fact, it seems to make winning even harder for us. Dogs, Bombers this time last year in the NAB games and Blues and Bombers during the season. I'm expecting to win based our ins and the fact that we're into the third year of Roo's tenure.. And I'm hoping we can come away without any injuries.

Or clearly Broadbent isn't 189cm...

Agree with the comments on Garland. Did anyone else find his first NAB cup game underwhelming? How little composure can a bloke who's played 135 games have?! *(Ducks for cover)* But seriously.... Wagner and White. Would love to see them compete hard for that spot.

For what melbourne supporters have witnessed over the last near decade and for the current team of players, the coaches and the club in general, I think it's bleedingly obvious why there's such emphasis placed on the importance of having our best players available for the early rounds this year including round 1. We need to win. And we need to start the season with a win. We have an opportunity to go 2 - 0 up against GWS and Essendon in rounds one and two and I dare say the confidence that our young team (who are salivating at the thought of success) will gain from two early wins going into a game against North Melbourne will be enormous. A side like us are so vulnerable to instability due to the ease at which we can lose and gain confidence after losses or wins. When was the last time we've won consecutive games? All of these things have a psychological impression on players and a team that has had such a negative history. The MFC need the fittest and healthiest list possible for round 1. More so than any other club because of where we've come from. Brayshaw is best 22. Any game he may miss early will hurt us.

He didn't get much game time but all of his touches were meaningful. He has skill and is tough. Two attributes that will take you a long way at AFL level.

Anyone else bracing themselves for the worst? Or am I alone..

Now why have you gone and identified something like that? It's not his fault! It was because of the [censored] wind on Saturday. It was supposed to be a Southerly but ended up being a North-Easterly!! How can Tommy stop the wind!? FFS give him a break. Srsly.

You shouldn't have identified that, the wolves will be after you. Don't forget that 'the reason he looks so undecided is that he had no one to kick to when he went for runs last year. There was no spread'! So it's everyone else's fault but Tommy's! Don't you understand?! Tommy is a saint and everyone else on our list is too. He can't improve any weaknesses because he doesn't have any! He came third in the B&F! Jeez!

Haha. Honestly, a post made with a balanced view of a player on our list is rebuttled with nonsense like this. Some posters are completely incapable of hearing, identifying and voicing any sort of criticism toward any one of our players. And there seem to be more than I thought on here. It's astounding.

I think with blokes like McDonald, you've got to hope that they'll eventually close the gap between those best and worst attributes. He has some really strong qualities to his game that could make him an elite defender. But his kicking, decision making and awareness seem to constantly undo all of his good work. He needs to keep it simple and he needs to handball or kick to that first option far more often than he does. In fact he just needs to handball more often than he does. One creative handball to a player in space instead of taking so [censored] long to spot up a target with his kick.

No. I'm just demanding overall list improvement and highlighting weaknesses we have in certain positional areas of the ground. The ruck/forward, forward/ruck role being the subject. Highlighting Spencer's weaknesses and the fact that we're struggling with two undersized KP players as current relief players. I'm looking forward. You can continue to be happy with the state of the list. That's cool. Ah, you mean you've conceded* Nice one.

Clearly it's an exaggerated comment. But he rarely offers us anything other than providing a contest at Ruck stoppages. That is the god darnest truth. And if you or anyone else chooses to highlight some contested mark or goal from last year, it will only further illustrate my point. He offers us very little most of the time.... Firstly, why on earth would you argue such a thing? Eliminating most forward/rucks on your list to make it look like Spencer is half decent?! The whole reason I brought this up is because of Spencer's obvious limitations as a player! But you have chosen to turn his weakness as a player, (versatility, football skills and smarts, etc) into a positive by arguing that purely as a 'ruckman' he is better than player X, Y and Z. He is only a 'pure' Ruckman because he doesn't require the skills to play any other position on the field!!! What the [censored] are you arguing? Again, it's like the good old days of posters isolating a stat like McKenzie's tackle count and arguing that it made him a valuable player, whilst ignoring every limitation and weakness he did possess. As for your list. You might want to update some of it. Lowden no longer plays for Adelaide as an example. You've also conveniently left out Ryder as the number one ruck for Port, (regardless of the fact that he's suspended) which would make Lobbe and not Howard. The point you're trying to make completely deviates from my initial argument. Which is that if and when Gawn goes down, we will need more than Spencer as a fill in to be sustainably competitive as a side. By removing the forward/rucks or ruck/forwards on your list, you've only further highlighted the lack of depth we have in these areas. We have one high quality KP forward in Hogan and one high quality Ruckman in Gawn. At present, because Spencer is incapable of offering anything other than injury insurance to Gawn, we have to rely on an under-sized Pederson as a relief ruckman who's in-fact a natural third tall forward. Or Frost, who again is an under-sized athletic KP defender who is currently being trialled as that second KP forward who can help out in the Ruck. And this my friends is because we have NOTHING ELSE. It will have to do for this year. But jesus christ if people honestly think that they're going to see steady and sustainable improvement with this kind of setup, you might want to pinch yourselves. I've never met someone who likes to isolate stats in order to back their statements up whilst completely disregarding the broader context as much as you do. It's intriguing. In that game against the bulldogs, Roughead and Cordy had 22 and 21 hitouts respectively. He halved the hitouts pretty much. Against two blokes who are both a year younger than him and one of them has been delisted. What the fark are you arguing mate? I've never said he doesn't negate his opponents and I believe that he does a good job at halving contests at stoppages. 'He can halve ruck-contests with his combative and competitive style' is what I said. 'He doesn't kick goals, he doesn't take contested marks, he doesn't understand where to run as a Ruckman, he doesn't tap to advantage and he certainly doesn't limit the influence of opposition Ruckmen in these areas of the game. So in the broader context of the role of a Ruckman, he does get smashed 'in the ruck'. ' And that was the other quote, half of which you conveniently missed. What I will say is that for the sake of pedantry I should have substituted the word 'doesn't' to 'rarely'. And as for your last comment, again. WTF does that even mean? I mean James Magner also played an 'adequate' midfield role whilst our list was utter shite back in 2012. Of course Spencer will play an 'adequate' ruck role if Gawn goes down vs the alternative. The alternative being nothing.

You 'reckon' his ruck-work is underrated and maligned without a lot of foundation? Well where's the 'foundation' behind your assumption that his ruck-work is 'rated'? His ruck-work is not rated nor underrated. It's simply 'meh'. He contests at ruck-stoppages. Are you saying that is an underrated quality? Honestly, I don't know why I posted anything at all given the response from many in reply. It's clear we all agree that Gawn is the number one choice. The assertion that Spencer is a 'good' backup is blatantly obvious given the alternative. (The alternative being a couple of lanky underdeveloped kids that share the same surname). As a 26 year old Ruckman who was a speculative pick in the 90's back in 2010, the bloke has played 30-odd games and has struggled to improve at any fundamental AFL specific football skill. He has built a strong body. He has improved his running. His strength as a ruckman is that he contests hard and provides physical pressure to a certain level when he is in and around the ball. He can halve ruck-contests with his combative and competitive style. The stats you presented highlight exactly this. The tackle count one specifically. That is a strength of his. Running to space to provide an option like Gawn is not because he is an below average contested mark. So I'm not surprised he has more tackles to his name. Spencer will do for now as backup. But next year it would be nice to bring someone in who has more strings to their bow. As a team you want depth at every line on the field. We're clearly not there and that includes our ruck-stocks. The difference in quality from Gawn to Spencer is far too great. It's exactly the same as when we had someone like Jordie McKenzie coming in for Nathan Jones a few years back. You want to reduce the gap in quality between players. I'm not sure why anyone would argue otherwise.

I'm not saying we need two A-grade Ruckmen. I'm saying that I wish we would have addressed this over the off-season. Especially after losing Jamar. The gap between Gawn and Spencer is enormous. Gawn is not A-grade yet. But he has the potential to be for the attributes he possesses. Spencer is literally a standing tree-stump. It would be nice if he provided even a little bit as an AFL backup Ruckman. But he doesn't. And he won't.

Of course he does. But that is exclusively because we have nobody else on the list who can play a full AFL game in the Ruck. Clearly both King boys are underdeveloped and Frost and Dawes are not Ruckmen. It's like saying Jordie McKenzie was a valuable depth over the last few years. We had nothing else to compare him to, so of course he was valuable depth. Surely you jest. You are reducing the role of a Ruckman and limiting the influence and importance they can have on and in a game by making a statement like that. Are you purely talking about a stoppage situation? If that's the case, yes kudos to Jake for his competitive spirit during stoppages. He doesn't kick goals, he doesn't take contested marks, he doesn't understand where to run as a Ruckman, he doesn't tap to advantage and he certainly doesn't limit the influence of opposition Ruckmen in these areas of the game. So in the broader context of the role of a Ruckman, he does get smashed 'in the ruck'. Gone are the days where Ruckmen were solely on the field to 'compete' at Ruck stoppages. I'll deal with it this year and hope that Max King can make some inroads as a forward/ruck at VFL level. But if Gawn gets injured this year and Spencer plays any more than a handful of games on his own, we're in big trouble for the reasons I've expressed. We don't yet have the midfield strength, forward potency or backline capability to cover for Spencer's glaringly obvious weaknesses in so many areas of the game. If we are to improve this year and stay competitive during games, Max Gawn will be a significant contributor to it.

I agree that the reason Spencer has been on the list for so long is because of our shockingly shallow ruck stocks for such a long time. And we're certainly in no better position going into this season. Gawn has the ability to become one of the game's most influential and dominant ruckman. If he gets a serious injury this year, it will impact the team hugely. Spencer is not a footballer. He cannot influence games like Gawn can. Spencer contests well enough but has zero football smarts and runs around like a headless chook usually. I think it's something we definitely need to address next year, especially now that Jamar has left. We'll need a mature ruckman who has more ability than Spencer. Gawn playing a full season for us this year will do wonders for the team's chances in climbing the ladder.

I was talking about Fitzpatrick. The very subject of this thread.

Not a footballer. Sure he might get games because of injuries. (example: Roughhead). He'll do nothing more than what Spangher has done for them. Injury insurance. Hole fillers.

It does. It looks stronger, quicker and more skilled than ours. Which is why we'll need to jump them if we're any chance.

Perhaps, perhaps not. I'm opting to go with Hulett as I've seen enough of Pedo to know he doesn't do it for me. He seems to always come back to pre-season with a winter coat which says to me he doesn't work hard enough. He provides little to no defensive pressure partly because he isn't fit or fast enough. His marking and goal kicking ability on game-day can be anywhere from non-existent to really good. Inconsistency is a big issue for him but we'll see what happens over the NAB challenge. I think having Frost and Gawn rotating makes sense. But it also makes sense for Gawn to get rest on the pine if we want to look after the big fella. This is his first un-interrupted pre-season and if we want to see a consistent year from him, he'll need more than forward-line breaks. Which is why I think it's important we have another KPP playing forward and who can also go back if need be. Someone who can take a contested mark. I understand Watts will be down there, but he doesn't play tall and doesn't take pack marks.

Round 1 team: B Jetta Dunn Garland HB Salem McDonald Wagner C Kent Tyson Vince HF Petracca Frost Kennedy F Watts Hogan Garlett Foll: Gawn Jones Viney Int: Brayshaw Vandenberg Bugg Hulett Pointless exercise to do before NAB challenge but I'm hoping the team will look something like this. Some reasons being: * Kicking skills from half-back. Whilst I haven't seen Wagner in the flesh, his key attributes are kicking skills and hardness from what I've read/watched. Whether it's him or White on a flank, I'm thinking we'll see one post NAB challenge. I am still waiting for the day in which I can feel super confident about more than one players kicking skills in our back six. At present it's Salem. And that's not enough if we're going to improve quickly. * Players who can play dual positions. The importance of this can't be underestimated for obvious reasons and for a team like us who lack speed and kicking skills, we will need as many players as possible on the field who can run play forward, midfield and back. * Whilst I haven't seen Hulett either, I have a sneaking suspicion we might see him early on in the piece. Especially if we're going to try and look after Gawn. Gawn will need more than forward-line breaks if we want him to play an entire season. And we need him to if we want to see improvement. * Lastly, many of those names on paper are extremely competitive players. A far different side to a couple of years back. We will need to bring the heat early against a GWS side full of more talented and skillful players at the G. I think our only chance against them is if we jump/intimidate them early on, bring the crowd to life and run away with it on confidence. Players like Viney, Vandenberg, Brayshaw, Jones, Frost, Kent and Hogan will need to be breathing fire from the start.

Ahhh Sat-man. You're gorgeous.

Enjoy that you can provide info from the mouths of some of our players. But when you say something like 'he didn't think much of Perth growing up' I'm not sure who's words they are.. There are countless interviews in which he makes it no mystery to anyone how he feels about Perth/his home. He loves it. That's not to say he dislikes Melbourne. But you're certainly painting a different picture by saying what you have.