stevethemanjordan

Good points. They do all naturally gravitate to an aerial contest but I still firmly believe that it's partly to do with the way play as a unit. We're a rolling defence which means players are frequently swapping on opponents. And that is problematic when there's an aerial contest. It constantly looks like our players aren't sure of where their opponent is so they all fly. Agree, no idea. Down in so many areas. Not as clean when the ball is on the ground and hasn't been anywhere near good enough with his ball use.

Lever benefitted from having a backline that played a less aggressive zone and a more one-on-one style setup which allowed him to play his natural role as an elite intercept player. He was number one in the comp. We're doing him no favours in the way we're playing as a defensive setup. No favours. I'm similarly confused at why we'd go so hard after Lever and then play him in in a defensive structure that doesn't allow him to do what he does best. But this is nothing to do with him. It's to do with our style of defence. It's the same with Oscar. After seeing him play so well yesterday, I can see him being a successful full back down the track once he builds his body a bit more. But again, playing him in a zone that needs players to guard space is not a strength of his. His strengths don't lie there. We need to rijig asap.

I wish to bring this issue up as a point of discussion even though I'm aware that many posters are talking about it in other threads. Our two major problem areas are clearly our inability to convert inside 50's into genuine scoring opportunities and our inability to limit the opposition scoring when they enter their forward 50. For the former, the answer is seemingly more clear cut. We clearly lack players who possess high enough levels of composure, foot skills and smarts. Evidenced time and time again by our players entering the forward 50 with almost no care for what the outcome will be. Be it quick scrap kicks from stoppages from players like Petracca yesterday or pointless torpedos to a forward line that contains one key position height forward. This is not okay. I don't for one second believe that Goodwin has instructed our players to kick the ball aimlessly into our 50 in the hope that our crumbers will score from that type of play every single time. It is simply unsustainable and amatuer. There are so so many times I can see clear space for our players to kick into to the advantage of our forwards, but they simply don't. This issue hasn't been addressed at all since the beginning of the season. I believe it's a player issue and Goodwin must now either play two key talls in our forward line or send a heavy message to those who continue to move the ball into our forward line with no system to their thought. It's putrid. The latter/second point that is less clear cut to me is the way we setup as a defensive back six. In my opinion, the aggressive zone that Goodwin has implemented is in no way conducive to the type of backmen we have who are meant to be executing this type of setup. Is it not obvious that in order to successfully execute an aggressive zone defence, you need one of two strengths as a backline unit, preferably both. Kicking skills/composure and speed? Playing in an aggressive zone means you're guarding space rather than standing side by side to your opponent. Which also means you need fleet footed individuals who can read the play and have quick reaction times. Aside from Hunt and Frost who both lack composure and foot-skills anyway, we have nobody else in that backline who is quick. In fact, Lewis, Vince, Oscar, Lever and Jetta are all slow with Hibberd being the only one whose pace is good.. Out of that group, I'd say Lewis, Vince, Oscar and Hibberd are generally solid users of the ball however, Lewis is the only player who more often than not shows composure and calmness. The rest of our backline group are far too inconsistent with the way they handle pressure situations. (Although Lewis didn't exactly set the world on fire in that regard yesterday.) Take spoiling as an example. Does anyone believe that Goodwin instructs 3 or 4 players to go up in a contest, all with the intention of spoiling the same ball whilst their opponents run amok once the ball hits the deck? How many times do we see opposition sides score easy goals because of this? That's only one example. But it is directly related to this defensive zone that we play. If our players don't have direct opponents as such, then your backline group need to have the utmost trust, composure and decision making skills in each other to know when to fly, or when not to etc. I believe Goodwin needs to show some maturity and an ability to change when something isn't working and in my opinion, I'd love to see us fall back and play a much less aggressive type of zone that suits players like Oscar, who I must admit was really good yesterday. He is a one-on-one defender. Not a zone playing key position defender. Lever would benefit from a tighter playing backline group, go and look at how Adelaide play and why he was so good for them. Lewis, Vince and Jetta would all benefit from playing closer to their opponents due to their lack of speed. I can't understand it and I really hope Goody can show some humility just like Hardwick did last year and rejig the backline structure. It's okay to be wrong as a coach. As upset as I am with yesterday, I still hold hope that this group will click. I'm certainly beginning to question some of Goodwin's plans though. Thoughts?

Mods, please pin this ^ in the 'best philosophical quotes' section of demonland. Saty is seriously underrated when it comes to making insightful comments and frankly he deserves more recognition.

Opportunities. That’s all this AFL game is really about. Last year going into the final round of the season, an opportunity had presented itself thanks to the season we’d had. Win the game, and we’d be playing in the finals for the first time since 06. It was against a seriously undermanned Collingwood side and we absolutely fluffed it. For days, I was waiting for a statement from the club and an answer as to why and how we could lose such an important game against an undermanned side.The answer was surprising. Jones spoke of everything but that round 23 game. He spoke about the fact that we’d lost games during the season that we shouldn’t have. Well, Jonesy. Here is another opportunity. An opportunity against Hawthorn in round 4 where we can make a statement. A statement to let the football world know that we are genuinely turning the corner. We can string wins together. We can beat sides who we should be beating. And we can go into next week full of confidence and take it right up to the reigning premiers. We have an opportunity to change even if slightly, the story that the MFC become too content with themselves after a win. I want a four quarter team effort with us playing the “Melbourne way”, a term that I’ve heard a lot over pre season but have only seen glimpses of to date. There are no excuses today. Umpires, weather, personnel. It’s time to deliver. Give em’ hell Dees.

I don't wish to derail a thread with Oscar talk. I just find it funny when posters change the narrative to suit their argument in regards to him. A game that includes a total of 6 possessions, 2 of those being uncontested with 3 free kicks against is poor whichever way you look at it. Yeh Brown may have had a couple of goals that weren't directly to do with Oscar. But again, it's interesting none of brought up the goal Oscar gave to Waite when he was caught holding the ball after showing zero awareness in the contest. Oscar was poor both as a number one defender and in providing an option as part of our attacking zone. You can't really hide from the facts. He was totally ineffective in most contests. We can take this elsewhere if you wish to continue.

I believe it’s canthitatargetus.

Hahaha. Very good. O-Mac plays on Hawkins and Hipwood one week and gets all the individual praise for keeping them quiet. But as soon as he has a shocker, (Brown) it’s the rest of the team to blame for Oscar’s downfall. Doesn’t quite make sense.

Unfortunate for Tyson that he’s ill. But it helps our cause imo against a more dynamic hawthorn midfield. Tyson has been playing wing and is a very average runner and outside player so I hope Brayshaw is the direct replacement. Also don’t think we need Frost in the side as Hawthorn will only have Roughie and Gunston as talls. Would much rather the Weid to come in as another key forward to keep Hawthorn worried. Hogan can take Frawley up the field and run him around.

I’d have had Brayshaw in the side over ANB, Melksham and Tyson for any of the rounds so far. Cearly there’s something more than ‘form’ that we’re not privy to. ANB and Melksham have been seriously underwhelming to date. And Tyson hasn’t been much better imo. Yet none of them have been dropped.

You don’t. Richmond fans will be filling most seats, but a great game to be apart of nonetheless.

I think he was jesting.

Explain your logic. It really doesn't make sense.

An unbelievable talent. Can’t wait to watch his career unfold. He and Petracca were made for finals footy.

Great thread. I agree that the way we're being drilled to play means quick entries inside 50 are of most benefit given we've adopted the 'in vogue' high pressure forward-line. However, there are many times in which we have plenty of space and options for players to see and hit. But they don't and that's a weakness that we have across the board.

Thanks again for toeing the party line. You're sharing absolutely nothing new like always, I don't know why you even bother responding. It's seriously pointless. I'm a supporter who hasn't seen any real significant improvement in the way we're playing since last year. We've come up against two very ordinary and young (Brisbane) sides and have managed to get over the the line thanks to our superior talent. We played an undermanned Geelong who we should have beaten. You'd expect we'd have won that given our end to last year and the 'burn' the club had spoken about all pre-season. But we didn't. I'm completely aware that the season is a marathon. And we've got two wins on the board out of three which is 'positive' obviously, most on here keep telling me. We clearly haven't 'learnt' about lapses during games despite what you've said. Because they have happened every game this year and it happened many times last year. My prediction is that if we play the way we have been in the first three rounds, we won't be beating Hawthorn or Richmond. Because one quarter of bad football against them and we'll be punished hard. If we play four quarters of 'Melbourne' football, we'll win. But I've barely seen an entire quarter of that yet. We have way too many players underperforming atm.

Either/or. It doesn’t bother me. A 4 goal run and a 5.3 quarter against a bottom dwelling side is worrying. The trend continues. Whilst we’re scraping by with wins, the way in which we’re playing isn’t going to knock any half decent side off. We need to lift our performance significantly if we’re going to beat Hawthorn.

They kicked 5.3 in the first quarter and the first 4 un-answered. So it was close to a six goal run in a quarter. You are dodging the real issue though. Which you did earlier in the year and so do many other supporters on here. The next two games are going to be a massive slap in the face for many on here who only choose to look at positives in our game. Hawthorn and Richmond will punish us if we have any sort of lapse. Absolutely punish us.

Yeh sure. The reality for Lever is that he's walked into a team whose weakness is its defence. Adelaide have Talia and Hartigan as two key backmen. They're strong, mature bodies who are experienced one-on-one players and give so much confidence to the rest of their unit. We have a baby giraffe playing as a key defender at the minute in one of the most aggressive defensive zones in the entire AFL. There are a whole lot of problems with our defensive unit and I can't be bothered going into them. Because of our 'system' and the lack of confidence our defenders have in Oscar's ability to beat his man, we seem to nearly always have too many defenders going up in a contest to try and spoil when it really only needs to be one. That player should be Lever. As a team whose traded for the best young intercept defender in the game, we are doing him no justice by the way our defensive unit is currently structured and playing. As for his individual performance and execution of the basics, I am happy to admit he has been well down on what I expected and he's definitely been disappointing in that area to date. Yet among the disappointing elements to his game on Sunday, he also showcased some skills that not many his age possess. The good thing for him is that he has money in the bank. We've all seen what he's capable of. And I'm not in the slightest bit worried about his form or ability. I'm more concerned about the way we're playing as an entire defensive unit including our undersized key backs in Frost and Oscar. One doesn't possess the footballing smarts to play as a key defender in our particular zone. And the other is a slow to react key defender playing in an aggressive zone that requires players to move and react quickly and be strong and aggressive in the contest. I can see Oscar being a decent one-on-one player down the track in a defensive unit that plays much tighter to their opponent. But there's no way he's suited to the way we're playing now. Likewise Lever. Although I'm more confident he has the ability to play in our zone than Oscar's.

Like Watts being a "star"? Enough now Jumbo.

I'm providing the counter to your posts and posts of others. It creates balance on demonland. Cheers.

I understand the difference. 5 goals and 3 behinds in a quarter against a team who are in a bottoming out period is a problem imo. They scored only 5 goals for quarters two and three and 3 goals in the last. The positives are that we're winning. Even if ugly. But if we perform like we did against even Hawthorn next weekend, we won't be winning. Oscar has two jobs. Beat his man and be an option as part of an attacking zone. He was utterly useless on Brown yesterday. He either gave away really dumb free kicks directly to Brown or was way too easily beaten in contests that he just should have killed. He gets way too much protection on here. Brown was the only player forward for North who was actually a threat which means Oscar failed yesterday.

We did dominate in most areas stat-wise. Especially inside 50's. We won. So we should have, against North who are in a bottoming out period. The second key forward issue is separate and again was worrying. We had one key forward who also played right up the ground and amassed 25 touches thereabouts. Yet our players entered our forward 50 the same way they have for the first two rounds. Extremely wasteful and thoughtless about their disposal going forward. You'd think if the coach makes a noticeable change structurally, your midfielders would follow suit in the way they use the ball going forward. It was more of the same. We won because of our grunt. We won against a side we are now expected to take care of and that's my point. And we did. That is a positive. I'm far more concerned and interested in the way we played overall. Because I'm looking ahead to teams who will actually smack us on the rebound for our errant forward entries and the way in which we so easily leak goals due to our dodgy defensive zone. The inside 50 stat in the context of our particular game was accurate. We were extremely wasteful going forward. That is fact, I can't help you if you believe in fairies. The media, commentators and experts were all in agreement.

You might want to watch closely again. Look, there are many problem areas right now imo both in individual performance and the way we play as a defensive unit. Oscar has been okay without being outstanding in his first two games of the season. But yesterday, he was awful both in the contest against Brown, (his number 1 job) and secondly as an option when playing in that aggressive zone which is clearly what's required of all our defenders. He had 8 touches for the game and provided the least amount of pressure acts. I'm happy to talk more broadly about our issues as a side rather than concentrate on Oscar, I just like nipping every now and again.

Reading a truckload of positivity from the usual suspects. Make no mistake, this was a win against an opponent who is guaranteed to finish bottom three. A team that again kicked a single quarter score of 30+ points against us. (The trend continues). A team in which we scored a record number of inside 50's against in the third quarter yet only managed to win by 10 points. Our inefficiency by foot is incredible. (The trend continues). A team in which their key forward again got a hold of our key defender in Oscar McDonald. A player whom so many seem to overate. Welcome to demonland.