stevethemanjordan

There's merit to both sides of the argument. In the past, Oscar was rightly criticised for some bog ordinary efforts and performances. But that's going to come when a club decides to play a 20 year old bean pole as a key defender at AFL level rather than trade for a stop-gap in order to let Oscar develop for a couple of years at VFL level. Turns out we didn't opt to go down that path and maybe the MFC knew there'd be some bumps along the way, but he'd develop quicker at AFL lever. To date, it's clearly worked. He's been super solid so far this year, not without the odd-brain fade. I think part of why posters like Binman and others become enamoured with pieces of play that one would term 'elementary' is because there was a period of time where he was not only getting beaten easily one-on-one, but he was missing spoils completely, getting caught holding the ball, getting out-positioned too easily and making really dumb decisions whether in the contest or not. When a player is doing all of those things on a regular basis, he is going to cop criticism. It's fair. Now that he's not doing that, we're hearing that he's "improved out of sight", when really, it's just that he's eradicated so many brain fades from his game. He is now competing strongly and is more reliable and consistent in the contest as a key defender. He is good with ball in hand and he is playing with more confidence. All positives. Against Roughhead, I thought that's when we saw the best of him this year with his ability to take intercept marks and out-position Roughie thanks to dodgy kicks on a few occasions. That's now his next stage of development. Turn some of those one-on-ones into genuine wins by using his body and either taking strong intercept marks or killing the ball with conviction. That's when we'll really see the signs of a high quality key defender. I'm not convinced yet, but the signs are positive so far. Oscar has been a positive in a disappointing start to the season for the MFC.

Ahh. True, although I thought that was quite effective. He competed so strongly in the air, even out of position. When he wasn't playing, those contests would usually turn into opposition marks.

I'm assuming you're being sarcastic? Tom McDonald was a forward in his junior years. I don't want them played at all, stat. Look at what we're doing well and look at what teams are doing too easily against us. We clearly have no issue entering our forward 50. We are super strong around the ball which is the hall-mark of our game and we're up in contested possession. What we're not doing well at all is converting inside 50's into scoring opportunities and the number one contributing factor is our lack of quality ball users. Goodwin is playing inside mids as wingmen and half-forwards. Dom Tyson, Nathan Jones and ANB should not be playing those positions, ever. I'm vehemently opposed to that philosophy. Nathan Jones was almost our best on the weekend, why? Because he was playing his natural position. Angus Brayshaw was enormous in the second half, why? Because he moved from half-back to the guts. His natural position. Has Goodwin finally realised that due to our inefficiency going forward, it might be smart to play three tall forwards with a ruck rotation so we can compete better in the air? Look at how it worked on the weekend. Posters may think that it's easy to say this in retrospect, but I've been complaining about it all year. You simply can't carry so many of the same type of player who share the same weakness in the one team, especially when they're down on form. We have no need for Dom Tyson or ANB right now given the way they're playing. Anytime that Essendon caught us on the fly on the weekend, Dom Tyson was nearly always caught out with his man running rings around him. If he is not damaging opposition himself, of what use to the team is he when it comes to defending? If ANB cannot pick the ball up cleanly or use the ball going forward, his pressuring acts mean very little. There are a handful of positional changes I'd make to our side at the moment. One would be Harmes to take Tyson's position on the wing. He is quicker than Tyson, has more versatility to his game and uses the ball better. In the future, I'd want to target a hard running wingman to play that position. At half-forward, I'd have a number of players ahead of ANB. For one, I'd bring Garlett back in and push Spargo up to a half-forward. In one game, he showed he has more ability than ANB has for the entirety of his career. ANB and Tyson should be depth midfielders who play if any of our starting mids get injured. Right now, Brayshaw, Oliver and Nathan Jones should be starting in the guts with Gawn. With a rotation of Petracca, Salem, Harmes, Lewis and even Garlett to get him into the game.

I'm so tempted to make long-winded post but I just cbf'd.

Is quite possibly the most overrated player amongst many demonlanders. Goodwin’s refusal to move him from a wing only highlights his weaknesses. Maybe Goody is waking up to the fact that if you play individuals in positions they’re suited to, you’ll get the best out of them. Moving Brayshaw into the guts in the second half from a back flank was evidence. And Hogan spending more time forward is also. Goodwin has been frustratingly stubborn this year with Tyson and ANB being two players who he continues to play in positions they shouldn’t be playing in. Both have been extremely underwhelming and have contributed very little this year yet Goodwin continues to play them. We are so slow through the middle of the ground. Tyson is utterly useless on a wing.

And for the record, I agree he showed great improvement in certain areas in the first half of the Hawthorn game. He was genuinely making a positive impact in contests and turning them into wins rather than floating about in an insignificant way. His kicking is usually very good. His defending needs improving along with his general intensity, body positioning, reflexes and awareness. Hopefully he can go on with it on Tuesday night.

And for the record, I agree he showed great improvement in certain areas in the first half of the Hawthorn game. He was genuinely making a positive impact in contests and turning them into wins rather than floating about in an insignificant way. His kicking is usually very good. His defending needs improving along with his general intensity, body positioning, reflexes and awareness. Hopefully he can go on with it on Tuesday night.

Given we're all Melbourne supporters, explain to me the incentive we get in pointing out obvious weaknesses in an individual's game aside from wanting to see the best from our club? The only reason that a player becomes a 'whipping boy' is because of an obvious flaw/flaws in an individual's game that a majority can see. That includes supporters, expert opinion, media etc. You can argue that a player may be unfairly criticised, but you can't argue that the issue isn't there.

I just find it funny when posters are confused by criticism around a player. If a bunch of supporters and footballing followers share a common view for a player, there’s got to be some sort of truth to it. A whipping boy doesn’t magically appear without reason.

Obvious to say, but Guss’s concussions from last year have set his development back significantly. Not only has he had limited continuity in playing games at AFL level, but we haven’t even seen him play those games in his most natural and best position, which is starting in the square. He was drafted to this club as a hard nosed, big bodied inside mid with a few other strong attributes including contested marking and an ability to kick both sides which gives him some positional flexibility. The club were rightly cautious last year when bringing him back into the side with a different role, but it’s definitely not where I want him going forward. As others have already noted, I think a contributing factor to our break down during games through the middle is due to the fact that we have so many personnel rotating through that midfield mix. It’s a double edged sword if I’ve ever seen one. Whilst it’s great to have some flexibility and options for different setups, it also takes away any sort of continuity and chemistry we could be building with a smaller and more concentrated group of mids. I have no concerns over Gus as long as he remains uninjured going forward. But really, once Lewis and Jonesy move on, we should be playing a consistent group of inside mids that play 80% + midfield time that include Viney, Oliver, Brayshaw, Salem and Petracca. Trac obviously playing more of a Dusty balance of mid/forward time due to his one-on-one dominance. I hate Tyson on a wing and I hate the fact that’s Goody continues to play far too many numbers through that part of the ground who don’t contribute enough. Our next step is to find some speed and power runners for the wings so we don’t have to continually play inside, one-sided and one-paced mids like Tyson on the outside. Clearly I’m on a rant and have entirely lost track of this thread but [censored] me can we please start playing blokes on positions they’re suited to.

Possibly doesn't need its own thread so to the overwatchers of this forum, feel free to merge. To anyone who has info, what is going on? I heard him interviewed during the week and he gave away nothing to suggest his omission was due to his wisdom teeth being pulled/lack of preparation. I had just assumed it was to do with that. He is a number 3 pick, highly talented and I can't understand why he's been overlooked again when any number of players could have been omitted for this week's game.

I do hope you jest.

Again, gotta love that we hear about this through external outlets and not the club.

Compete in a global market? lol. Nobody cares about the game outside of Australia and that's why it is such a sacred and special game given the popularity of it in our home country. I think you mean nationally, we are competing with soccer, which is a global game? The only reason the AFL continue to 'Americanise' the game is to make it more attractive globally and because $$$. As Australians, we kiss so much US dick it's disgusting.

I agree. And I’m happy that Frost and Oscar will be battling for that second tall position. It will make them better players individually and will hold them to higher accountability on game day. All of it being a positive for the club. We’ve also got the best crop of 21-23 year olds in the comp and it sound as if they want to stay together given their love for one another. That’s what excites me most about our future. They’re all super close.

Hardly a slap. I’m just using you as an example of the demonlander that greatly overrates our players.

It’s a contributing factor, sure. But it’s only structural now that we have Lever at the club. And that trade in itself said a lot about how the coaches viewed a backline of Oscar and Frost in tandem as talls. His footy fundamentals have never been up to scratch and he’s been trialled in almost every position, failing to lock down any of them. I was baiting supporters who loosely throw around the term ‘gun’. Which is an annoyance.

Frost simply has too many question marks to his game, not sure why that’s not obvious to some posters. Especially @Drunkn167 who has termed him a “gun”. His best go is in the backline. But Oscar has had an enormous summer and is looking solid. I wouldn’t be surprised if Frost missed against St Kilda either, unless we were to rest Oscar/Lever.

Non-story imo. I heard Tom McDonald say the same thing last contract. Perhaps the club has made a lowball offer, if anything.

JimmyGadson thanks DeeVoted

You are. But that’s cool.

Looks like a very natural footballer, which I love. And clearly, the FD believe our key defensive stocks are weak regardless of what @Satyriconhome believes. I'd go so far as to say that this bloke looks more impressive than Oscar did at the same age. We now have O-Mac, Frost, Keilty and Petty as developing keys with Lever the only definite best 22 key defender.

Would be a dream if he slipped, I love him.

I posted a bit on him on page 3 of this thread: Haven't seen Baker in the flesh, only a glimpse from his highlights vids but from what I can gather, speed would be about the only thing that they share in common. Petruccelle is very raw.

Either Port will look unbelievably stupid in the way they’ve gone about this trade period or they’ll make many other clubs look stupid for not taking a similar approach by winning a flag. It’s a risky strategy. But they’re going to have to make top 4 minimum to justify the way they’ve gone about things. Probably not the place to post that ^ but I’m amazed at how aggressive they’ve been. They clearly think they’re right in contention for a flag next year. In any case, as others have already expressed, I’m happy for Trengove and hope he lasts longer than a year on their list. As far as AFL footballer stories go, his has been pretty rough and he deserves some individual success.