stevethemanjordan

I had the opportunity to do a bit of scouting this year and there are a host of names who impressed me at TAC cup level but either didn't play regular state carnival or didn't dominate. If we manage to get a second-rounder for Watts and hit the draft with picks 27, (Watts pick), 35 and 45, look out for the following names: Northern - Jack Petrucelle, Marcus Lentini, Alexander Federico Sandringham - Will Walker, Hayden Mclean, Nathan Murphy Eastern - Trent Mynott, Joel Garner, Ryley Stoddart, Thomas North and Tyler Brown Oakleigh - Ed Richards, Matthew Day Gippsland - Callum Porter, Will Stephenson, Jack Hudson Murray - Doulton Langlands, Daniel Johnston Bendigo - Kane Farrell, Darby Henderson GWV Rebels - Aiden Domic, Jordan Johnston Geelong - Matthew Ling, Gryan Mies, James Worpel, Ethan Floyd Unfortunately I didn't see Dandenong, Calder or Western play so can't comment on those players. But I saw the above players on a few occasions, many of whom I took notes for under instruction. Happy to answer questions on any. I reckon most of those names mentioned will be between second and fourth round picks.

A reminder that we now have picks 27, 35 and 45 heading into this draft. Given certain club's needs to obtain multiple draft picks for points for father/son or academy zone players, it's not out of the question that we won't once again make a play to get back into the first round. So again, [censored] relax.

It's absolutely relevant given they were one win away from winning a GF. Is it not? I'll repeat that: They made a Grand Final with a list that was devoid of top-end talent. We have plenty already. I don't understand the annoyance. It makes no sense to me whatsoever.

I wish posters would seriously stfu about what we'll be giving up vs getting in return for the Lever trade. Adelaide made a [censored] Grand Final with zero top 10 picks in their side and a host of players who were either picked up late in the National Draft, traded in for later picks or picked up in the Rookie Draft. Sloane was pick 44 and Walker pick 75. Jacobs was brought in for picks 34 and 67, they gave pick 37 to St Kilda for Lynch. Knight was pick 46 and Atkins 81. Need I go on? I will. Rookie drafts nabbed them Hartigan, Laird, Cameron and Kelly. That's almost half of their best 22 and more importantly, some of their most influential and important players feature in that group. Compare that to the MFC who have a plethora of high-end talent, arguably the second-most in the AFL behind GWS. If history to date suggests anything, it's that the culture and environment of a club is of most importance to any sort of talent reaching its potential. GWS continue to stumble despite being the most talented group within the league. We're at a stage where we need to harbour, nurture and develop the group we have and we should be jumping for joy that Lever, (a once touted top 3 draft pick and the best young defender in the game at age 21) has nominated us as the club he wishes to play for. We're on to the next chapter of our growth as a club which is developing what we've got for an assault over the next five to seven years. Shut up about the rest.

Agree. Especially given that Lever would go top 5 easily if we were to revise the 2014 draft. Something that posters quite clearly forget.

People should also remember that 2006 was supposedly a "superdraft" year. Gumbleton and Hanson went 2 and 3. Leuenberger and Mitch Thorp at 4 and 6. There are a host of others who went inside the top 20 who are far from household names. Lever is proven quality already and is only going to get better. Why do posters care so much about draft picks? If we give away two first-rounders and receive either 18 or 19 from Adelaide (on-traded from Brisbane) + an exchange of later picks, we'll be dancing.

What, like Oscar?

No offence but it's a stupid question given their difference in age and games experience. As another poster has already indicated, Lever is tracking slightly ahead if not on par with Rance at the same age. They have a slightly different skill set but defensively speaking, they both possess amazing intercept ability, ball killing/spoiling ability and are extremely aggressive in the air. Those three attributes are the most important for defenders imo. Lever will be one of the best KP defenders in the league within a few years.

^ That guy knows what's up.

Out of interest, could yourself of some other chap please highlight a strength of Oscar's at AFL level please? Not like a one-off piece of play. Like a genuine strength. Genuine question.

Sorry extended squad. I should have specified. No one would have had him close to the team? Haha. What does that mean?! He made the squad you peanut. That means he had a fantastic season whichever way you look at it. He made it as a key pos player at 22. Let's just imagine if Oscar had made the extended squad for a minute.. This place would have exploded. Given the conjecture surrounding Lever's move, none of us really know how much money or how many clubs are interested. Only ball-park figures. Clearly, he is wanted and clearly we want him. If we are indeed offering that amount of money for him, what does it tell you mate? What does it indicate? Clearly, we are desperate for talent at that end of the ground. We have one of the weakest key defensive units within the league and one of the least talented. All of Frost and both McDonald's have glaringly obvious weaknesses in their games that are on display weekly.The reported offer to Lever supports my view of that. Why else would we offer that money? Any idea? The ranking of where he'd fit within that group of 5 is plain silly. He is clearly in that mix and his form and development since he's been drafted is proof of that is it not? Way too early in all their careers. High-end talent across all lines is hugely important for sustained success. It doesn't phase or surprise whatsoever that we're willing to pay Lever handsomely given the state of our key defensive group.

Good thing he is not a half back flanker. He is the prototype AFL defender who standing at 195cm can play tall and small given his array of attributes. He is an AA defender at 22 years of age. Well done to all those who keep saying we'll be paying overs. You have no idea. The amount reported only confirms how desperate the club is to land a genuine top line key defender. In fact it says an enormous amount about our current three. Frost and O Mac are uknown. Tom is still turning the ball over at crucial moments from 15 metres. Lever is everything we need and then some.

I didn't actually watch the match lol. Going by what @rjay said.

Probably part of the reason why you don't fully understand how good the bloke is.

Lol some posters questioning Lever's worth. lolololololol

I imagine it'd be hard to be in the best handful of players as a key pos defender in a side that wins by over 60 points..

I'm not sure there's been a second year player who has produced the same results? Clearly he had an unheard of year. I don't mind being called crazy for taking three first round picks ahead of Oliver at this stage. But I'd do it! Yes Carlton can get him as a FA, but with Kennedy and Smith for pick 10 and only moving down one draft position for Brisbane's Rockliff compo is a pretty nice deal for them. Means they'll have a first rounder for this year, Rockliff, Smith and Kennedy. With the rest of their talent including their young bookends, they'll be pretty scary in a few years.

Key word. As said, at this early stage I would do the deal. Let us stop derailing however, back to Jake Lever. Here's Ralph's idea. Carlton look like big winners in this hypothetical though. http://www.heraldsun.com.au/sport/afl/could-a-adelaide-carlton-and-melbourne-threeway-mega-trade-be-a-winwinwin/news-story/af3300af42e2e7557aedd4267f3a91d9

Three first round picks.

I would take the three first round picks ahead of Clayton at this point in time full stop. For a multitude of reasons. Hope that's clear enough.

Okay, apologies. I believe that aside from Oliver, we have some players who have star potential. They're not there yet, just like Oliver isn't. If we were offered three first round picks for Oliver, I would be confident that we could hit the draft and nail at least one player inside the top 10 who would have similar star potential plus two other chances of gaining high quality players. The underlying point in all of this for me is that Oliver has shown potential at this stage imo. Yeh he had a great year. But I've seen this with young players before and I'm also aware of the type of person Oliver is, regardless of how he turned it around at the beginning of this pre-season. There's a lot of growing to do and a lot of water to go under the bridge before we can call him a 'star' of the comp. People use that term all the time. Whether it was Zaharakis in his first year, Gysberts after his first three games etc etc. So at this stage right here and now, I'd take the picks.

Also, @Rhino Richards seems to only 'like' posts these days that are either quoting mine, or someone else that he seems to take issue with. So on behalf of all of us that irk you Rhino Richards, I'd like to say hi. I miss talking football with you. Steve.

We're on a bit of a merry-go-round here but I'll try to be more clear. I recognize that Clayton is a highly talented inside mid who has had a superb second year as a developing player. Having said that, I also recognise that as a midfield, most of our talent is concentrated in a contested-heavy group comprised of Viney, Brayshaw, Petracca and to a lesser extent Tyson and Salem. All are top 10 picks, (Viney would have been) and all (bar Salem) were elite contested ball winning mids during their 18's year and imo share similar weaknesses as players. Now obviously it's completely subjective as to where one rates Oliver within that group of talent at this early stage in their careers. Petracca has already done an ACL, Brayshaw has had concussion and knee troubles, Salem hamstring and Thyroid issues and Jack had an interrupted year this season after having an unbelievable year in 2016, arguably as good as Clayton's 2017. Aside from Viney for his first two years, Oliver is really the only player of that group to have had true continuity in both his training and playing from the day he was drafted. The rest are still largely unknown but in my view the talent levels and potential are hard to separate with the exception of perhaps Tyson. (My whipping boy). Hypothetically speaking, if an opposition club were to come to me as head recruiter of the MFC with three first-round picks on offer for Clayton at this point in 2017, I would happily shake hands on the deal. Two picks inside the top 10 and one outside. Clarry's unique attributes imo are how clean he is around the ball, his vision in close and his hand-ball execution to the right target in close. Both Trac and Brayshaw are similarly strong over-overhead and as far as everything else goes, I think we possess enough inside talent to let Clarry go for three first round picks at this point in time. That's one reason. The second would be these factors: Given the recruiting team we have now, the type of characters we seem to target, the development coaches and leaders we have at the club presently, I would back the club in to successfully identify three players - (who once developed) - would provide a better and more even balance to our list given we can target positional players and greater attribute diversity. It would allow us to have a more even spread of high-end talent across the entire list. One only needs to look at GWS this year to see how important that is when injuries strike. A risk? Of course. It's all a risk. Rejecting three first-round picks for Clarry would also be a risk. But I would do the deal given the reasons I have provided.

I think view typifies the stereotypical one-eyed supporter. You talk clarry up, yet only rate Lever against Rivers without expressing the same level of love or confidence that he could too similarly be a star of the comp. I don't doubt Clarry's talent and I certainly think what he achieved and produced this year was very special for a second year player. But as Melbourne supporter, I'm used to players not reaching or fulfilling their potential. So as I said, at this point in time I would take the hypothetical swap. Ask me in a couple of years or even at the end of next year and my answer may be different. I see a lot of potential with our young group but it genuinely irks me that some think it'll just happen for us.

Not 9 draft picks. And that's for Danger or Martin who have performed at an elite level year after year. I know what Wiseblood was getting at, I just wanted to be a smartarse. But if you're asking me honestly about Oliver, I would take three first round picks over him, but as follows: Two inside the top 10 and one outside. I love Clarry as much as anyone, but I want us to unearth a genuine star of the competition. And we haven't done that yet or ever for as long as I've followed the club. I hope he continues this trajectory in both form and development because if he does, I may similarly say that you can't put a price on him. At present however, you can.