stevethemanjordan

Why will I be eating humble pie? It's reported we're offering a key defender $800,000 a year who is in a very similar age and experience bracket to both Frost and Oscar McDonald. What does that tell you? If you're suggesting the coaches like the idea of all three playing in the one backline then I'm assuming you see our current best defender in Tom McDonald making permanent move forward from next year onwards? Hell no. Due to unfortunate circumstance, he has been the shuffle-guy because he can play forward and ruck at a better level than the other two. What I see them liking the idea of is the following: Having a really settled and strong defence in Tom McDonald and hopefully Jake Lever as our two main key defenders. Leaving the third tall spot to be an open battle between two developing keys, (Frost and Oscar) who are yet to show anything other than glimpses. (Some weeks three keys will be unnecessary). That is what we need moving forward. Oscar and Frost competing for the same spot so that when they come in, the pressure to perform is as high as possible.

If the reported offer is correct, it's clear the FD don't share the same views as many on here in regards to Frost and Oscar. Especially given the fact that Lever is the same age as Oscar and has played less games than Frost.

It doesn't bother me whether you think I'm being harsh or not. I'm just saying what I see. I mean, I don't really understand those who say "he is improving at a rate I wouldn't have anticipated." It's almost nonsensical to me. Are you happy to persist with what we have in the hope that they'll develop into good enough players? That's not how list management works. It's really simple. The greater the attribute diversity a player has, the greater that player will be. Lever almost has it all and is a key position height. Oscar and Frost don't have great attribute diversity. They were late picks due to that very reason and it's questionable whether or not they'll be anything other than average-okay AFL defenders. Here is a highlights package of Lever, (same age as Oscar) from last year: He had played under 36 games at this point.

I don't believe that's harsh. I see it as the truth, he was a rookie for that very reason. He is raw, his skills are hit and miss. You've named his athletic qualities which I agree are strong. Without Hibberd and Jetta, we'd be an absolute mess down there. We need a key defender who does a lot right most of the time. Hibberd and Jetta provide that. We need a key defender who will do that too.

Frost will never be a quality key defender. He will always remain a 'specialised' one who plays a support role. His footballing smarts and footballing specific skill-set are very average and it's his freakish athletic qualities that get him games. Oscar McDonald is developing very slowly and I have no idea what he'll become. He has no standout qualities at this level and has shown slow improvement. Only in the last month has he started to take some strong intercept marks but he is still really inconsistent in games, especially his intensity and spoiling. Gary Rohan was all over him early on Friday night. Whilst we're still a developing side, the AFL landscape has changed and it's clear that teams can challenge for a flag earlier than once thought. We can't afford to wait and hold hope that Frost and Oscar will develop. We need quality now. This year we have leaked far too many goals through our questionable defence. Frost and Oscar gift goals to the oppo too often. I hope we make an offer for Lever.

I think supporters fail to understand that not every player on our list will be apart of a premiership or even contribute necessarily. There's a blueprint to an extent to follow in regards to list management and we're clearly at a stage where we need to start to identify missing puzzle pieces to add to our 'core'. Now, obviously some demonlanders will have all of Frost and both McDonald's as part of our core. That is simply a non-objective view of the worth of our key defenders. It's a Melbourne supporters view. Where every player has a place. As far as I'm concerned, none of our three current key defenders possess any significant composure with ball in hand. Frost is an athlete and is still developing basic decision making and kicking execution skills. Whenever he makes a dashing run from defence it's basically a 50/50 whether or not it'll result in a positive bit of play or a turnover. I've said my piece on Oscar and whilst I agree the last one and a half games have been really positive, he is similarly years away from being close to Lever. We have an opportunity to go hard for a player who would help our cause to no end. We're really only a couple of target players away + the natural development of our core to be challenging consistently for a few years. Lever is a big game player already, and a key defender who in my eyes will be the best in the game within three years. Frost or O-Mac won't ever be that. Because they don't possess the attribute diversity that he possesses, regardless of development to date. Which is obviously why he was so highly rated in host draft year even on the back of doing his ACL. Bring him home Dees.

^ Very good

The ball is completely in his court, Adelaide have no say in whether or not he chooses to come back to Vic. Only that they'll have a preference of club to deal with depending on who has the better hand. From the articles that I've read, it'll be family and girlfriend that are the deciders. I don't care why we pay for him. If we land him, it'll be a game changer for our club.

Upon closer look, you might be right. Might be.

Haha. A clearing kick that happened to find a Melbourne jumper? I guess some might say that's clever.

http://m.afl.com.au/news/2017-06-14/how-a-former-don-is-steering-the-dees-to-finals Of equal importance to Jack's finishing skills was Hibberd's last minute diving spoil against De Goey that not only disallowed what could have easily been a goal to Collingwood, but presented us with the opportunity to go end-to-end and put the game beyond doubt. Which is what eventuated. The picture is amazing. What's not so amazing is how another AFL journo can so easily muddle up De Goey with Treloar. Really amateur given it's their proffession. Anyway, Hibberd has been monumental for us this year. An enormous moment.

Yes. It's a headf*#^

Both, given May and Lever feature strongly. Lever is a must get.

With opposition teams targeting Oscar in one-out situations, it's understandable that he features. Unfortunately, ineffective spoils are also counted as spoils. A spoil is a spilt ball that an opponent gets a hand on. Again, that spoil stat doesn't really tell the full-story. The quality defenders are the guys that feature in many of these stat categories.

http://www.afl.com.au/news/2017-06-09/key-to-defence-back-yourself-and-team-structures Some more stats for the stat lovers.

Has played 43 games and is 21. Is anyone watching tonight? If demonlanders are convinced Oscar will become a 'great' key defender over time, I can't even imagine what they'd think Lever will become?!

All of these concerns are a non issue if your team possesses the following: - A competent key defender who can combat a disadvantage in height with strong body work and a really competitive and hard edge to the way they play. (Rance, May, McGovern). None are above 196cm - A two-way running midfield who consistently provide pressure on the opposition's quality of forward 50 entries. - A ruckman who is willing to run defensively, sit in the hole when required and be that tall that you're talking about. If you get those three things right, the opposition are going to have a very tough time marking anything inside 50. No matter the size of the forward. Part of why we're missing Gawn is for his ability to defend as that extra key defender at times. But we'll soon have him back. I think our midfield has generally been pretty good at disallowing really easy forward 50 entries. (Compared to the last few years anyway). We can always improve. And I would say it's our key defenders that have been the weakest link at present. Oscar doesn't cut it, Frost is still learning and T-Mac has been wildly inconsistent.

Defensively speaking, yeh, champion data will show that he is clearly in the top 5. He is a wonderful defender. The criticism comes from his kicking and decision making with ball in hand. And it's warranted. I don't need champion data to tell me that. The fact that improvement in this part of his game can barely be seen is the reason supporters get upset. It's totally understandable.

Sometimes it is. And sometimes it isn't.

And the Port Adelaide supporter would say the exact opposite.

Debatable.

He plays in a zone defence at Gold Coast...

But he is bigger. Bigger in that he plays with much more physicality and aggression than any of our defenders. And he is also a bigger and stronger build than any of our defenders. May would be perfect because he'd allow T-Mac to do what he does best. Intercept spoil and mark. Atm when Tom plays defence, it looks as though he feels like he needs to be superman and stop everything. Which is part of why he is making errors and is only further evidence that Oscar is untrustworthy. How many defenders do we see go up to spoil the same ball? Tom plays his best footy when his role is simplified and is allowed to stick to his strengths. We're a rabble back there because Frost and Oscar are unable to hold those key posts as well as we need. Frost is another who needs a simplified role to play his best. But part of that is because he is limited in his football-specific attributes. Get someone like May in and we solve many problems.

It's about the quality of player you are. If you're a high quality defender, you're going to know how to combat 7+ cm in height. May and Hurley are both 193 cm but are better than any defender we have. They use their bodies, strength and timing to outmanoeuvre taller opponents. The height issue is overtalked. Of course, if there is little pressure on the ball carrier coming in and the kick is too good, no defender will be able to stop that. There are no elite defenders in the league that stand at 200cm.

^ SEN Adelaide correspondent. Honestly, the only reason these guys get gigs is to spread rumour and innuendo from their 'sources'. I'm not saying Lever is going. But the amount of times these SEN nuffies like Denham and Smith etc get these things wrong is absolutely comical.