stevethemanjordan

Perhaps. I'm still not sure he'd fill a kp spot in the backline if Frawley went down. I'd be sending Hogan down there if that happened. Hypotheticals. Just seems an odd choice if what you're saying is the case. You'd think there'd be a plethora of KP backs out there with great lock down ability as well as better size. But I am merely a demonland poster... I see him as a depth role player. That's about it. I'll wait. And see.

I'd hope he's not depth for eother of those two. He is Jack Grimes height. He must be an extremely highly rated lockdown player. His skills look god awful so I don't imagine he'll offer a whole lot more.

It's just an odd pick for me. I don't get it. I'll wait and see what happens next year obviously. Odd.

I understand it's your opinion but history suggests it's very unlikely to happen at AFL level. Some guys aren't made for it, you're right. They're the ones that don't make it onto a list. Anyway, we'll see. It's strange, it's as if people want him to fail and they have very little idea of how well he applied himself this year.

You can't underestimate the influence Ablett has had on that group. He would make any young midfield walk taller and play harder. He's accelerated the growth of those young mids in a huge way. Throw Ablett into the midfield of GWS and he would have had a similar effect. Really proves how important it is to have the players of his calibre teaching and mentoring young kids. Even Geelong now. Look at how well developed some of their younger midfielders are at around the 50 game mark in comparison to other 50 gamers.

100%? Is that right?I should never have written anything then.

I'll sit in between. He's definitely more confident on the field, not sure about a hard edge though. Would be good to have both Terlich and Strauss fighting nail and tooth for a BF position.

Scary to think about really.

As for the rising star, I'd back Martin. Don't matter that his body isn't developed. The guy is unlike anyone I've seen.

Another naysayer. He's made it onto a list, when many were saying he wouldn't.. He will make it, and he will be a very valuable player for the Hawks given time. He has all the support he needs being at a club at AFl level. The chances of him failing are now much much smaller. What a ridiculous statement.

He doesn't offer enough.. I think that's more to the point.

I rate the guy highly. There are a number of contributing factors as to why players like himself were caught out last year. Our shocking midfield being one. I agree that he may need to tighten up a bit in some cases. Perhaps at stoppages in our defensive 50 for example. He has a very offensive game sense. But his run off, attack and willingness to take the game on is something I haven't seen since Whelan. He is aggressive and strong and I reckon his kicking is fine. His decision making is also fine. He's one of very few who wants to make bold decisions. Try and hit out players on their own rather than kicking to a contest every time. Way too many of our players play extremely conservative footy because of their lack of confidence. Defensively, he'll be better next year which will partly be thanks to our midfield improvement. I reckon he's a beauty and his game will improve ten fold when the team does.

Great reports, appreciate the effort. I'm hoping to get down next week.

I'm not quoting anyone. I'm just giving my opinion. You said he needs to 'drastically' improve his contested ball winning ability, which in my mind would translate to him becoming a contested ball winner mainly. I could have left out the machine part. Let's leave it. Difference of measures.

Some of my posts may have added more than necessary. Here's another. The contested versus uncontested possession argument is silly. They are both as important as each other. Some players' strengths are at winning them, others are more valuable winning the ball on the outside. All need to improve on their weaker areas, a given. Anyone that thinks Toumpas needs to become a contested ball winning machine in order to become elite is kidding themselves. He obviously needs improvement in the area. As others have pointed out. Hawthorn are the premier side because they win plenty of contested ball and keep it off their opponents on the outside. There is no 'most important'.

Exactly right. The game is not that black and white. If a team needed a bunch of contested ball winners only, we'd be talking about a different game. There's way too much emphasis placed on the contested ball winning business. They've told themselves that Ben. As Arrow has pointed out, there have been a number of mids drafted at number 1 who were never contested ball kings. Trav Johnston, Bryce Gibbs and Lachy Whitfield. It may be a benchmark for certain players, but you're definitely making it out to be something far more important. Proof is in the pudding.

My thoughts exactly. But as others have pointed out, he'll remain thereabouts until our midfield improves. Which I'm hoping will be next year.

Crowley is in his own league when it comes to tagging. Not only that, he is actually a decent player offensively as he's smart enough to know when to make his move. As for every team 'needing a Crowley', I'm not so sure I agree. Take Geelong nowadays and Hawthorn and Sydney. Sewell is a run with player but still gets a lot of the ball, but neither of the other two sides have one midfielder who only tags and does nothing else. McKenzie is a very limited footballer and while I'll never question his endeavour, I'm not sure he'll be a start up mid come 2015/16. Obviously I'll be delighted if he proves me wrong and his skill set at AFL level magically transform.

I don't understand your rebuttal. When you've got a plathora of ball winning, smart and hardened mids like Hawthorn and Sydney, those line breakers are worth their weight in gold and they'll never have to lift that percentage, because they're not required too. They're not in the side for that reason. It's the same with Toumpas, the only difference being, we haven't had a midfield for him to play his natural role. Well I don't know what the point is. He needs to improve his contested ball winning. Yes, everyone does. I am in agreeance to a certain extent. I disagree with the amount of importance people are putting on it, as he'll never be in the thickof it like Jones, Michie, Tyson, Cross and Viney.

Hill and Smith. Their two outside runners who get a game every week because of this very reason. They break the lines.

Ahhhh bitter Melbourne supporters..

When you've got a team with the worst midfield in the comp, (us last year) a player like Toumpas in his first year will clearly standout for his lack of contested ball winning ability. Especially when you're drafted at the same time as Jack Viney. Toumpas is never going to need to become a contested ball winning machine, as it's his outside game that will tear teams apart. The fact is, we've had a [censored] midfield with Jones the only real capable inside mid. It's obviously Viney's strength and now we've added Cross, Tyson and Michie. Put Trengove back in there and it looks like we've got a handful of solid ball winners. Next season will be a huge improvement because we will have enough talent and depth to compete well in close. Bradley Hill for hawthorn is never going to need to become a contested ball winning machine, because Hawthorn are sorted for ball winners and Hill's outside game compliments that engine room. The same will apply for Jimmy when we become competent in the middle. Winning a one on one situations will need to improve obviously but Toumpas is a give to player, a streamliner and an elite kick.

Now that we have a genuine midfield, a coach who will bring more than just a game plan and a one 'Jesse Hogan', there's no way we will finish the season with 5 wins or less. I understand supporters worrying and preparing for the worst, but really we've followed a similar footprint to Port. There are three reasons Port did what the did this year (in my view obviously). Midfield - a number of players had injury riddled seasons in 2012 with Hartlett being one. You can see Port have talent and depth in the midfield when they are fit. Reason number one. Coach - Hinkley. What a revelation hey. Now the trick with any coach is to have the players on your side, and playing for you. They certainly did that. From the very first game, you could see they were playing with an unbelievable intensity. Reason two. Snow Ball - The mind is an amazing thing. We know confidence is key to getting anywhere near the best out of yourself, and when a bottom dwelling team gets a sniff, nothing will stop them. We're pretty much about to embark on the same journey. We have a midfield. The player we've brought in are the polar opposite of the personnel Neeld tried to bring in. We have two experienced performers who work extremely hard in Cross and Vince. We have Tyson and Michie, both big bodied capable players whom I rate highly. Whist they don't have the runs on the board, Tyson was a pick 3 and I think I've seen enough snippets to suggest we've got ripper. Michie the same. Obviously didn't go very high in the draft, but I've had my eye in him for a while now and I love him. He'll contribute more than Sylvia in his first year. Trengove, Jones, Viney, Toumpas, Watts, Howe. Think about how much less pressure these blokes will have. Roos - He'll have the exact same effect as Hinkley. He's come in and started a spark and it's only going to grow. Unlike Neeld, the players now have a leader. Someone they draw inspiration from. Someone they want to play for. Having him at the club is absolutely unbelievable and from the reports we've already heard, it sounds like the players already look more focused and intense. If we get a couple of early wins against the Saints and West Coast at the G next year, watch the snowball roll on..

Warm wishes and a speedy recovery Dean.

The most exciting thing I've read on demonland. You have no idea how jealous I am of you seeing Hendrix during that golden era. Did you happen to go to Woodstock as well? We need to grab a beer. (Ps, sorry for yet again detailing the thread)