stevethemanjordan

No he doesn't drop his head. He never drops his head. FCS this is the first year in how many that he's had games where he's been ineffective and hasn't been an influence. That doesn't mean he drops his head. He contests at 100% intensity at 100% of the time. Does he go to ground and sit there for prolonged periods of time like Garland? No, he doesn't. You are on of the many who for some reason thinks keeping NQR senior players is going to help the club's culture. I vehemently believe that Garland and this group I speak of have contribute to the poor culture we have for various reasons. Some are so subtle that supporters may miss them. Like the sitting on the ground after losing a contest. All of these things filter into a playing group. It all has an effect. Do you ever see anyone at Hawthorn, (other than Frawley) do [censored] like that? Any of their 27+ age bracket of players? Do you ever think that part of the reason Watts is taking so long to implement these kinds of habits into his game is partly because we've had this group of NQR senior figures who also lack this general intensity, effort and willingness during game day? Wake up man. This [censored] is viral and it needs to be cut off asap.

It's disgusting isn't it. Several times this year I've noticed him doing do it. It's like he's completely unaware of the fact that if he got up off the ground, jogged a couple of steps over, he'd be able to make an impact at the next contest even if only providing an extra number. Even when he's on his feet, he is soooooo 'opponent conscious', he refuses to get on his bike and provide an option when we're in possession of the footy. He literally runs around holding his opponent and looks like he's been shot whenever he runs. It's as if he's never done a pre-season. Provides absolutely nothing offensively and has been so-so defensively for the majority of the year.

Yes. He plays in another team HH. Behind Walker and Jenkins. He has a strong midfield that provide him lots of opportunities. Let's be understanding of the context surrounding those numbers. Are you aware of Lamumba's numbers from last year for Collingwood and where he finished in their BnF? Have a look at how he's performed for us this year. I think people are getting pretty excited about an average hard working forward. Sure he'd be a replacement for Dawes if he keeps performing at the level he has been. But Lynch wouldn't set the place on fire at the Dees next year.

He signed a contract last year until the end of 2016. We can still get him. Great replacement for Garland and providing he can have a clear run at it without injuries, he'd provide much of what Garland doesn't plus he'd be a breath of fresh air for the backline as well as the club in general. This is exactly what we need to be doing.

His unwavering positivity on such fairy tales was pretty amazing. I commend him for it really. I'd love to live in fairy land.

I always wonder what happens to the Sat-man during the season. Does he go into hibernation?

Agree.Supporters thinking there will be minimal list changes are genuinely deluded. Free Agents, Delisted Free Agents, trade period. Do it smartly. Continue to move on the virus-players + the deadwood.

100 % agree.

I think Nathan Jones has without doubt proven this line of thought wrong.Drafted at a similar time, have been subject to all of the things you speak of, yet the natural development and comsistency in form has been there with one and not the other. It's a case study done for you. Personally I just can't understand the apologists. I don't go to functions, I don't meet the players and therefore I never display any sort of emotional bias on a personal level. All I hear from your posts and from the posts of others is a feeling of 'sorry'. Almost as if the club owes him something other than the pay check and opportunity to play a sport at it's highest level. I agree Garland has shown at times during his career that he can play a valuable role for us when he's in form. But I ask how often that has been? His body language has always been the same in my eyes from day dot. He's quiet, doesn't like to get in the face of opposition players, doesn't play with any spunk and has never displayed any sort of 'follow me' leadership qualities. For the survival of the club, something has to give. For the last two or three years there have been a dysfunctional group of senior players who I've mentioned who have all displayed similar traits. Traits that have contributed to the teams abysmal performances.

Are you advocating drinking before games? I'm telling Roos.

Does that mean performances like the weekend's are of little interest to you also? Do you not see any correlation between consistently under-performing senior players (ie Garland), and our inability as a team to perform for an entire match? I think it's fairly obvious that a significant part of why we still to this day are having these howlers of games is because of this problematic and virus-like group of players. Frankly, I can't understand why you're so indifferent. It's a major concern for me.

The year we got Vince and Cross, we also got Tyson and Salem. Why do people think I'm talking about drafting every 28+ year old out there and forget drafting kids?! It's about list management. Do you really think if we started strategically culling some of these problematic senior players, we wouldn't bring in replacements with similar games experience and actual leadership traits? Of course those holes would need filling. It's about bringing in the right ones. Ones who will provide what these guys lack. Let's say we lost Garland, Howe and Jamar at the end of the year. You'd like to say at the very least we'd sign one 27-28 year old + player, perhaps two depending on what's available. I reckon I could name about 10 out there who would be more influential and have more of a positive and proactive effect on our list and how we'd perform next year. Then of course you draft the right amount of kids from the draft, perhaps another mature age rookie. Etc etc. In theory it's a piece of [censored]..

Interesting to see that the poll has now completely swung the other way after yesterday's performance.. I know thats partly to do with supporters jumping on and off players anytime we win or lose as a club. But to me, Garland's performance on the weekend didn't convince me anymore than any other week. He performed as he has for too long. And it's problematic. And if supporters can't see it, you are living in fairy land. A land in which you hold some false hope that these problematic players will all of a sudden come good and play an important role in helping remove these virus-like performances. Would enjoy hearing from Wiseblood again about his thoughts. I honestly can't understand what at all you see. Not only did he not do the most basic and fundemental job he had assigned which was beating his man. He also contributed to turn-overs, provided no run, no intensity, no leadership. Here's a good word. He floats. He's a floater, and that's what he's been doing for most of the year. There is no meaningful contribution. I understand he's not on his own, but the fact that he's coming out of contract and is still being played in our starting 22 is of interest to me and is the reason why this thread has been opened. It's not about me bashing him as a player. If Jamar was still being played I'd have started a thread about him also and my views about Frawley being problematic were made well aware this time last year. I'll be absolutely gob-smacked if Roos and Goodwin offer him another contract. For anybody watching yesterday, did you not cringe to yourself that we've had to bring in a player from the Doggies by the name of Daniel Cross who is literally only getting games because he is one of few senior players on our list who plays with any sort of heart, desire and willingness. If you're looking at him as a player without that context, he wouldn't be getting games at any other club right now. He butchered the ball, fumbled and was as slow as always. But he still gets a game for us. Because these players I keep mentioning will not and do not provide what he does. It's both a bittersweet feeling. I admire him so much for his willingness to compete and then I cringe when he turns the ball straight over or fumbles. He is symbolic of these problems I'm talking about. I think the only way we're going to be able to mend this 27+ old age bracket of players who are simply 'lost' is by moving them on methodically and continuing to top up with players like Vince and Cross. We need to get those selections right. There are a number of Geelong players coming OOC who I'd be willing to make a play for. Players who are still mentally and physically fit and able. I've mentioned Adcock although I don't know how his body is holding up. This age bracket player replacement needs to be prioritised if we're going to have any hope of keeping our young and talented players on the list. It's the only way forward.

Jones is being tagged. Continues to play with intent and ferociousness. STFU about him not being 'captain material'. He is the best we've got by light-years.

What on earth does that even mean? Deserves better?! What?!

Just missed a 20 metre target under no pressure and then kicked the ball on the full. I'm deliberately pointing this out because this is the [censored] I'm talking about. What the [censored] does he offer us? Are people honestly telling me we don't have someone else on our list who can play the same simple defensive role? Haha. Seriously. Y'all are delusional. We will not move forward in leaps and bounds if we continue to preserve this idea of 'rewarding' senior players who have 'been through it all'. What the [censored] is he offering us!?

Good to see we've come out breathing fire after last week...

Has given away the first goal. I'll watch him closely today, and see what he is providing the team both offensively and defensively as well as how he carries himself as a senior player and leader.

Perhaps. I honestly don't know what to think anymore.

Somehow I don't think 'demonland votes' is going to give you the best indication...

lols

Are you kidding? Tom McDonald has shown more in his young career than Garland has in his entire career. McDonald was playing himself into AA contention early this year and his form has dropped off. He offers run and carry and offensive drive, beats his man and plays with 100% intensity all of the time. He had a howler on the weekend. Why on earth are you comparing the two?

Honestly, you may as well just stick to pot-shotting posters and forget about the subject matter. You're better at it. Let's look at that group of players: Frawley is underperforming at Hawthorn and was a pretty poor and underachieving senior figure for us apart from his one AA year Jamar has had one AA year and since then has done SFA, he has never been a leader and will now look like he'll end his career at the MFC as a casey player. Dunn had his first break-out season as a full-back last year and this year whilst not as good, has still been solid. He is now in the leadership group. He is not OOC. Garland is coming OOC and is a FA, hasn't played good consistent footy for too long, is not performing as well as he should be as a senior figure who's been at the club for years and does not offer anything in terms of leadership on the field. Why I need to spell this out I have no idea. They are and were a problematic group. Reasons being: lack of leadership and genuine care to get the best out of themselves, lack of intensity, extremely inconsistent form over their careers. This particular thread is about Garland and I'm sharing my thoughts as to why I think as a club we'd be better off without him and I'm interested in other supporters thoughts about him and what he offers vs what he doesn't. It's clearly over your head.

Yeh but not guaranteeing games the following year is a bit different to not offering a contract. Pedantic, I know.

I can only assume it annoys you because of an emotional bias. Considering at no point do you ever elaborate on your one word statements on the subject, I genuinely wonder whether you have a clue what you're talking about? At no point did I say he is 'THE' problem. I said that he along with that group of players that I mentioned are and have been problematic. Garland happens to be coming out of contract which is why I'm speaking about him. Your other option is to not even open the thread. But you took the time to read it and respond only in expressing your annoyance about me. It all says much more about you, than me...