stevethemanjordan

Nothing I read in that article leads me to the same conclusion as you ... I for one believe that he is a 'bit' player. Easily replaceable and someone (like Frawley and Sylvia in the past) who will net is something better. These guys are not leaders of the club and aren't taking the club forward. It's the younger guys who are doing it now. Garland's position can easily be replaced and to be honest, I'd like it to be.

He's been deadly accurate. Whilst this isn't a knock on him, the only thing I can say I've seen that he doesn't possess is distance in his set shot kicking. He doesn't seem to have a huge amount of penetration from 45 + when kicking for goal. As for everything else. He's almost perfect.

You're a sorry lot. McKenzie comes into the squad of 25, which doesn't mean he's playing... We'll find out tonight anyway. If posters had a long term view of what our team is going to look like in three years time, they'd realise bringing in McKenzie or any other second-tier player who's been solid in the VFL makes much more sense than bringing in one of our underdone kids who are still developing. This is entirely about developing a really strong seconds side with kids having to earn games. McKenzie and co won't be around next year. We wont be playing finals this year. So why is it so hard to see a bloke like him come in rather than a kid we're trying to develop? I'm rejoicing that the club is doing things like resting Hogan when his body requires it. Think ahead demonlanders.

Love the entrance

For a first year player, that's not a great idea and I'd be astonished if he were to play any sort of competitive footy this year. The fact that he's running now is great but he's still miles off being able to perform any high intensity high impact sport.. His muscles surrounding the knee including the calf, hamstring, quad and glute need a huge amount of conditioning before he plays a match. As stated by previous posters, it's great that he's running but he's still got a mountain to climb and we won't be seeing him this year. He's a first year player/kid.

I think for us, players like the ones highlighted are part of the problem. It's the 'scarred mentality' thing. We need players who's game and psychology has not been subject to this MFC conditioning, (for lack of a better term). I'm with you in that we need to improve the depth end of our list just as we need to improve our midfield. There are many areas. And there are several identifiable reasons as to why we are stuck in the [censored]. And why we can concede record breaking opposition goals in halves of football. It's not simply just the 'midfield's' problem. Just as it isn't Garland, Grimes and Watts problem alone. But it's definitely those combined and then some. Moving on some of those more senior players is a non-negotiable and we'll see it happen, even if we're not going to 'get much' in return. If you hold the belief that our recruiting and football development teams are infinitely better than what we've had in seasons gone by then I wouldn't be worrying about what picks we'll be getting. Hogan, Viney, Brayshaw, Salem, Petracca, Toumpas, Frost, JKH, Kent. We need for these guys to remain hungry and competitive at all times and not have them follow in some of the footsteps of 'problem players' that we have. That can't be stressed enough.

Agree with this except for Toumpas. I'd keep him. He is showing the right signs now and once he becomes more and more comfortable in his 'skin' and how he identifies himself within the team, we'll see a really good player. His speed and power are starting to improve and his physicality has improved a lot which has come from greater confidence. He's slowly building and I'm happy with his progress. For those others you mention, I agree we need to be pretty ruthless again and think about list improvement all over the ground. We'll need to lose someone to gain for our team. Whether that's Garland, Howe or Watts I don't mind but it simply has to happen if we ever want to completely break the shackles.

I get the feeling he'd be one that Roos would be happy to let go of, (regardless of what he says to the media). To be able to get a fresh face back there with kicking skills is my preference. We have too many defenders who can't kick.

I'm sure Brisbane didn't expect the output they've been getting from Stef Martin after the season he'd had with us, (who was a rookie pick or psd pick if I recall correctly). Leuy was a top 10 pick so he's certainly talented. He's endured some shocking injuries so his form this year is not really a concern. He's stay on the park factor is though. I think a change of scenery would be perfect for him and I think we should have a crack.

The drug issue was there before Judd arrived and was a deep rooted issue at that club. He was a kid when he got there. Every club has it's own bad eggs. Are you saying Neitz was a bad leader because he couldn't inspire a work ethic for players like Sylvia? You're basically calling Judd a bad leader because he couldn't curb the behaviour of certain troubled players which is a pretty narrow view. Speak to any player at Carlton and ask how influential he has been as captain.

So many sad and sour Melbourne supporters. Calling Judd a coward. Haha. He was a champion player and a champion leader.

Max Gawn has more ability and is more capable than Spencer and he always will be. Spencer is simply on our list for insurance because there is no hope in hell he'll be able to improve in almost every facet of the game. He is just another competitive player with no skill or general understanding of where to position himself anywhere on the ground let alone a ruck contest. Jamar is now shot. I'd be handing on to Gawn with the hope that he will one day be our number one ruckman with an ability to spend time forward. But yes, we will be identifying a ruckman to pick up at the end of the year. Hopefully one who can challenge for the number one position.

Just something I noticed at the end of the Casey game, (with about three minutes to go). I saw Tyson get up limping from a contest and favouring the strapped knee. If it's been knocked again, I can't imagine he'll be playing this weekend.

Your comments astonish me at times.

The fact he couldn't run out the game as well as you think he should have had zero impact on the result. He was far more valuable then either of Jamar or Spencer have been for us and his match fitness will improve once he stays in the side.

Regardless, do you think we still would have won the game with all the other turnovers we caused resulting in goals for them? It's not as simple as just putting a bloke on Oxley. Maybe Roos thought it would be more important to have an extra number around the ball and if so the onus is on the players themselves to realise you cannot consistently bang it on the boot inside 50 without looking. This is the [censored] AFL. You need to be able to retain possession at times. It's an imbalance in attributes. We have a lack of skill level and decision making throughout the team. Plain and simple. It's not Roos.

The main concern for me is our complete lack of skill level from players all over the ground. I had no issue whatsoever with our effort today. But holy [censored]. Nathan Jones must be pulling his hair out at some of the comical errors being made time and time again. Salem's kicking is sorely missed and it's a major concern that we haven't really added another elite kick to our side since we drafted him.

Sorry but apart from one terrible turnover, Gawn showed how valuable it is to have a Ruckman who can tap to advantage and compete in the air all over the ground. In my opinion, his game today was far better than any of Spencer's have been.

Disagree with all those blaming Roos for being 'out-coached'. Teams leave loose men in back halves regularly. Our problem was not that we needed a man to go to Oaxley. Our problem was that we have too many players who refuse to think when the ball is in their hands... You can't just bang it on the boot when there is a loose man back. That's under 10's stuff. How [censored] hard is it for players to think a little? We lost the game simply because of a lack of skill and decision making from players throughout our team. That should be obvious to everyone. Have one glance at the goals Collingwood scored from turnovers. Fitzpatrick, Dunn, McDonald, Pederson. These players all made unbelievably embarrassing errors. Sure it's forgivable for one or two players to make one blunder a game. But when you have a handful of blokes consistently making terrible decisions and poorly executing them then you know your team is in trouble.

All of these responses are almost identical to what posters were saying about Frawley when he was putting off contract talks. Of course there were and are times Garland beats his opponent. Just as there were times Frawley would beat his opponent. He had an AA year after all that was exhaustingly brought up time and time again as a means to defend him against those of us who were happy to see him go. Look how it turned out. We landed Angus Brayshaw. Does any supporter think that we lost out on that one? I would be surprised if so. And this is only his first year.. I'm not saying we'll net someone like that for Garland. But the same drivel is being written in his defence and it's so tiresome. The club is still so deep in it's own [censored] from having these senior blokes who are not only so up and down in individual performance but who also just don't have the capacity to create and inspire change! Garland doesn't have the capacity to instil fear in opponents around him nor does he lift team mates. He plays a very individual game, refuses to throw his weight around and constantly looks like he's just run a marathon. The dropping his head vision is one of many symbolic images. There are numerous nuances and subtleties in body language that players pick up on. Both opposition players and players of our own. Garland as I said is one of a handful. Drop-offs in performance like we saw against the Power occur because of a combination of reasons. The senior player issue is one of them.

You're defending the bloke because you pity and feel sorry for what he's been through which is exactly what not to do when looking at a situation like this. It's really irrelevant. We need to think and act bigger and more boldly when assessing the pros and cons of losing a player like him.

There was and they're the signs I'm talking about. It's not a good look for young players.

I'll go against the grain here and say again that I believe he's expendable. One of those senior boys who have been subjected to some some very dark years but hasn't been able to break through it like Nathan Jones. At times I question his physicality and intensity. At times I question his decision making and kicking. In my opinion he epitomises the MFC player who drops their head when the chips are down and plays for himself rather than the team. That's not to say he doesn't compete. I'll explain. When I think of the group of senior players who have been with us since 04 or 05, none of them have any real physical presence except for Nathan Jones (and Dunn on occasions) . Garland especially never shows any sort of aggression onfield, no flair, no willingness to instil any sort of intimidation into opposition players and no willingness to lead the team when we are falling away. I understand that it's partly to do with his personality type, but in my eyes it's just another contributing factor as to why we continue to fall away so quickly during games. I'm not talking about getting into jumper punching rubbish. I'm taking about playing with a strong physical and aggressive presence. Of course the same can be said for a handful of others, but the thread is about Garland and his contract situation. Again I think it's important to look at the overall picture of our list. How many of these guys can we continue to carry. Because we are carrying. I'd trust the FD to strike again and pick up someone who would be of greater value to us going forward than what Garland gives the MFC in its current state. It's hard for supporters to completely disconnect from emotional ties to players who have been at the club for years. But the reality of the situation is that the club is carrying senior players who are not able nor willing to break the shackles and demand more of themselves or those around them. I don't want senior blokes stepping down from leadership positions. That's never a good sign. We have a great young group of players who do possess those traits I'm talking about. Viney, Hogan, Salem and Brayshaw. But we need more of it coming from the 27+ year olds. And we're not getting it.

No he's not 'the' problem. But he is most definitely an unfortunate result of one of the many problems we have with our list. One being that we've had so many top 20 draft picks fail over the past 5 + years. Had some of those guys come on like they should have, Matt Jones wouldn't be on our list. The plight of the MFC is complex and there are so many factors that have contributed to it. Our recruiting is simply one of many. I agree with posters who continue to back Roos and ask for patience. It's as if some people live in this fantasy world in which they believe players like Fitzpatrick, McKenzie and Bail will all make it if given enough time. The reality is we've had to hold on to average players over the past couple of seasons simply because we've had no other choice. We've had so many of them and there can only be so many delistings made at the end of each season. As well as being aware of when certain contracts finish etc. There are underperforming and mentally scarred senior players that still need to go just as there are players who are simply not good enough that will need to go. Next year will be the third year that Roos will have had to slowly but surely reshape our list in a mindful way. It's a waiting game. No club has had a list as bad as we've had for this amount of time. No club. It's not that amazing that we capitulate like we have been during games when there are still so many [censored] kickers running around.

Not everyone needs a role to be able to contribute. Take Hogan and Brayshaw for example. They are first year players, (even though Hogan has been at our club for two years) who consistently bring effort. Consistently. Theyre both smart and clean footballers also. That is a big plus. Far too many on our list either compete hard but lack in every other facet of the game, (McKenzie, Spencer, Bail). Or they pick and choose when to compete whilst having handy attributes. (Watts, Howe, Garland etc). Or you have a handful of NQR's who basically have a mix of all those negatives. Which is where we find ourselves.