Axis of Bob

Surely Pittard, as it'll be a salary dump to help the deal across the line. Pittard was a free agent last year but signed a sizeable 3 year extension before spending a lot of the year playing magoos. North can only offer their pick 11 for Polec but by taking the last 2 years of Pittard's contact off Port (who are squeezed with some terrible contracts) then they can add some value to the trade .... but they can't be so far off that they need to take Hartlett's monster contact, surely.

For all Brisbane have been a basket case in the past, they have been getting themselves together in the last year or two. Fagan's appointment was not sexy but it was a mature decision that shows the football community that they are professional organisation. Plus they have shown promise on field for a successful future. Neale has shown that he obviously doesn't rate Freo's next 5 years, or that playing football at the FFC is not enjoyable for him. Probably the later, given that there had been talk around him leaving for SA during previous contract periods. Either way, it's a terrible situation for Freo. They certainly need Hogan to sell some hope to their supporters. For Jesse, what price would you pay to go home?

One of the things we have to get used to is that our first round picks aren't worth that much any more. When we say 'first rounder', that includes everything from pick 1 (insanely valuable) to about pick 20 (not that valuable). So two first rounders can be significantly less than the value of a single first round pick (19+20 is the equivalent of pick 5). So when we talk about 'first rounders', we probably need to be more specific with our language now.

People who are looking at May replacing Oscar are barking up the wrong tree. May would be about creating a structure, which is what the best teams (West Coast and Richmond) do well. The backline would likely be Oscar, May and Lever together. Oscar playing the same role he is now (bodying the opposition's best forward) with May as a strong rebounding tall who can play on a good player and Lever playing as a contest killing rebounder. This structure is very similar to the well structured teams. Schofield/Broad/Oscar as the negative body player, McGovern/Rance/May as the tall rebounder and Barrass/Grimes/Lever as the flexible contest killer. Having May could turn a weakness into a strength.

So pick 5 is already more than we paid for Lever. If Jesse is traded, we aren't going to get two top 5 picks IMO. We may get a top 5 plus a later first rounder or players to that value.

There is a lot of talk about us paying two first round picks for Lever, however that is a very narrow snapshot on a small part of the deal. The deal involved other picks (including a second rounder to us). 10 + 16 + 68 out, 37 + 43 + Lever in. If you do the sums with the points then it was effectively a single pick 7 for Lever. Ironically (correct usage) Adelaide knocked back or initial offer of 10 and 29, which would have equated to pick 4. Effectively 'caving into Adelaide's demands' got us 2 second rounders in exchange for dropping our 2019 first rounder 13 spots and bringing it forward a year.

Fremantle will only have pick 6. That's it.

We got on a role late, but that was not due to not having Hogan. I think we're looking at the wrong thing. We were already playing well. Hogan held is together at the start of the year, then TMac came in and we dominated. It was only a poor 3 weeks (where Hogan was down on form) during the middle of the year (Coll, PA, StK) that caused damage. Then we'd won 4 of 5 (only Gee after the siren) when Hogan got injured early in the Sydney game. I think the "the team is better without Hogan" line is rubbish.

He's better in our structure. Weideman had a great final and several good games. But Hogan had several better games than even Weed's career best game. We kick higher scores with Hogan in the team. McDonald gets a lesser opponent when Hogan plays. I genuinely don't know what people don't see in him. He's one of the best key forwards in the league, he's a kid still and he's ours. Maybe he's just a bit too 'meat and potatoes' for some fans, rather than doing the spectacular.

I don't think you understand the meaning of irony. Neither did Alanis. 'Ironic' was the name of the song. It was in the mid 90s, so possibly the reference was a bit too contemporary.

I think you need to double check the grammar in this post. Otherwise it is wonderfully ironic. And not Alanis Morisette ironic, but real ironic. PS- I have clearly contributed to the discussion of this thread, despite it's clear idiocy at times. So your post is weird. PPS- You're embarrassing yourself with the 'sponge' thing you're trying to be clever about. The avatar is based on my screen name, not vice versa.

There's also no need to get sucked into watching grown men kick leather But what if it's fun? ?

Yeah, I got halfway through and then went back to the OP. My bad. I still don't think they are wingmen per se, but i think having players that can spread from a contest are important. It's being part of a platoon of midfield runners, rather than separating players into midfielders and wingmen. I don't think the positions are important only the mix of players in the midfield.

That isn't trolling. Trolling is starting a thread calling to trade the best young key forward in the league.

A few things. Firstly this is the role of the half forwards now. The midfielders are now around the footy in defence and that's why we have guys like Hannan, Melksham and Petracca forward of the footy to link up with pace in transition. Secondly, you can talk about the mix of midfielders but the wings are just past of that equation. The leading uncontested player in the ground yesterday easy Redden, who couldn't pull skin off custard. Then Duggan at hair back, Dom Shred (who may be slower than Redden!) and Cripps, who is a half forward. Or game is about winning contested footy. If you get well beaten in the staple of your game then you're always going to look slow We have slow players, but the idea that Goodwin doesn't rate and value speed is just nonsensical.

I disagree completely with your first two points. I just think that you are flat out wrong on them. Goodwin certainly rates speed highly and this has been shown in selection and also in recruiting. Early in the season Tyson was in the VFL and had to fight his way back because he didn't like the balance of the team. Late in the season he brought in J Smith because of his excellent pace. He picked and brought back Hannan because of his pace, despite his ordinary form. He kept Jeffy and Hunt longer than he should have. He had shown that he is willing to drop class (Tyson, Fritsch) for peace and competitiveness. He likes pace not so much for the ability to win the ball out wide and run the footy like it's the WAFL, but because speed creates contests, which allows our contested guys to go to work. That's why he didn't pick Frost, because he didn't trust him to make a contest. That's also why Jeffy and Hunt didn't play .... because they couldn't be trusted to make enough contests. Our game is about creating and winning contests. So we pick competitors and guys with pace. Lever's absence but us significantly in defence because he had pace and makes contests. You're looking at a group of players that missed and seeing 'players with pace', but you're not labelling then directly. You should be looking at them as 'players who don't consistently make contests'. Also, your view of wingmen is very outdated. Wingmen aren't what they used to be. They're just midfielders that don't start in the centre bounce nowadays.

Jesse Hogan laid significantly more tackles per game this year than Josh Kennedy has in either of the past two seasons.

Tom McDonald. 20 games for 47 tackles. Jesse Hogan. 20 games for 41 tackles. Those 6 extra tackles must have been absolute bone crushers.

I'm the same, Goff. I thought I'd be distraught after losing a prelim, but we were playing West Coast in WA and we took a young team with significant structural weaknesses (especially through injury) and we beaten soundly. If we'd won it would have been a truly exceptional win. And now we go into 2019 with a flag in the forefront of our minds. We get to be a team whose season doesn't begin until September. We have a few gaps to fill still, but the cream of the team is very young and in the important spots. Plus we have significant improvement. Now I'm just excited for the new season to start. And we don't need big names to join to manufacture that excitement. We'll be in the top 2 or 3 picks for the flag next year across the board. That's a type of fun I haven't experienced before as a Melbourne fan.

This is possibly the biggest load of rubbish I have read on Demonland. Not so much the message (which is near on indecipherable) but the actual collection of words in the screen. I assume you are attempting to say that because Jesse hasn't been traded to WA yet it means that he can still get traded WA, and the way to fix that is to trade him to WA. It's like the People's Front of Judea, if they were all high.

McClure has a Carlton source, which is how he knew about McGovern. He's just extrapolating his 'Mcgovern to Carlton' info into 'Freo is not getting McGovern'. The Hogan add-on is just a guess because it will get clicks.

It will be really interesting and I agree. We are so lucky in that we have 3 assets that other teams would rip up their lists for, but we need to massage around a bit to make it work. It's like winning tattslotto and then noting that your portfolio is now overly skewed towards cash! Hogan is our best forward, but would also be our best defender. McDonald was a defender and Weideman would also be an excellent defender. At least they all play the game differently. They other thing to ponder is that we have played more even numbers ahead of the ball in the time after we used 3 talls, so there's a chance that they would work better with each other now. Plus Weideman is a much improved player since then. Weid had also taken many of his marks in packs with other talls, which provides a different option to the wrestling of Jesse and Tom. I think we'll play 3 tall forwards next year and then set up the team around them to make it work. I imagine there will be less focus on the talls to mark and more on the defensive actions, knowing that we have more marking options. I have no idea on how we will use them all, but it's going to be a really interesting discussion. I think 2018 was a year we could get away with it, given that Weid is developing, but he won't wear that next year too.

Looking at the stats of McDonald when Hogan is playing vs not playing: McDonald’s scoring shots have gone down, his disposals have gone down, his contested disposals have fallen dramatically (7 down to 2.5), has not taken any contested marks, taken less marks inside 50, kicked the ball inside 50 less, etc. His stats have fallen off dramatically since he’s had to play on the opposition’s best defender. Conversely, Weideman’s stats have improved. In fact, they are better than McDonald’s. Weid, the last 2 games, has averaged more disposals than Tom in 2018, more contested marks than Tom in 2018, and more contested possessions than Tom in 2018. Perhaps the question shouldn’t be “Hogan + McDonald vs McDonald + Weideman” but rather “Hogan + McDonald vs Hogan + Weideman”. ?‍♂️

Are you saying that Hogan = Kelly + Lynch? We spent 2 first round picks on Lever, and he was uncontracted. You’d have to spend more than that on Kelly alone. Plus Lynch is RFA, so draft picks aren’t important. If we got pick 5 and Cerra for Hogan, we’d give them straight to GWS for Kelly. Then we have give Lynch a vault of cash .... which we can’t afford after paying Kelly who got that to re-sign with GWS on a long term deal. You haven’t thought this through.

Before Hogan was injured he took 24 contested marks and McDonald took 28. Since Hogan has been out of the team, McDonald hasn’t taken any, while Weideman has taken 6. It’s funny what happens when you have to play on the number 1 key defender each week.