Axis of Bob

He's better in our structure. Weideman had a great final and several good games. But Hogan had several better games than even Weed's career best game. We kick higher scores with Hogan in the team. McDonald gets a lesser opponent when Hogan plays. I genuinely don't know what people don't see in him. He's one of the best key forwards in the league, he's a kid still and he's ours. Maybe he's just a bit too 'meat and potatoes' for some fans, rather than doing the spectacular.

I don't think you understand the meaning of irony. Neither did Alanis. 'Ironic' was the name of the song. It was in the mid 90s, so possibly the reference was a bit too contemporary.

I think you need to double check the grammar in this post. Otherwise it is wonderfully ironic. And not Alanis Morisette ironic, but real ironic. PS- I have clearly contributed to the discussion of this thread, despite it's clear idiocy at times. So your post is weird. PPS- You're embarrassing yourself with the 'sponge' thing you're trying to be clever about. The avatar is based on my screen name, not vice versa.

There's also no need to get sucked into watching grown men kick leather But what if it's fun? ?

Yeah, I got halfway through and then went back to the OP. My bad. I still don't think they are wingmen per se, but i think having players that can spread from a contest are important. It's being part of a platoon of midfield runners, rather than separating players into midfielders and wingmen. I don't think the positions are important only the mix of players in the midfield.

That isn't trolling. Trolling is starting a thread calling to trade the best young key forward in the league.

A few things. Firstly this is the role of the half forwards now. The midfielders are now around the footy in defence and that's why we have guys like Hannan, Melksham and Petracca forward of the footy to link up with pace in transition. Secondly, you can talk about the mix of midfielders but the wings are just past of that equation. The leading uncontested player in the ground yesterday easy Redden, who couldn't pull skin off custard. Then Duggan at hair back, Dom Shred (who may be slower than Redden!) and Cripps, who is a half forward. Or game is about winning contested footy. If you get well beaten in the staple of your game then you're always going to look slow We have slow players, but the idea that Goodwin doesn't rate and value speed is just nonsensical.

I disagree completely with your first two points. I just think that you are flat out wrong on them. Goodwin certainly rates speed highly and this has been shown in selection and also in recruiting. Early in the season Tyson was in the VFL and had to fight his way back because he didn't like the balance of the team. Late in the season he brought in J Smith because of his excellent pace. He picked and brought back Hannan because of his pace, despite his ordinary form. He kept Jeffy and Hunt longer than he should have. He had shown that he is willing to drop class (Tyson, Fritsch) for peace and competitiveness. He likes pace not so much for the ability to win the ball out wide and run the footy like it's the WAFL, but because speed creates contests, which allows our contested guys to go to work. That's why he didn't pick Frost, because he didn't trust him to make a contest. That's also why Jeffy and Hunt didn't play .... because they couldn't be trusted to make enough contests. Our game is about creating and winning contests. So we pick competitors and guys with pace. Lever's absence but us significantly in defence because he had pace and makes contests. You're looking at a group of players that missed and seeing 'players with pace', but you're not labelling then directly. You should be looking at them as 'players who don't consistently make contests'. Also, your view of wingmen is very outdated. Wingmen aren't what they used to be. They're just midfielders that don't start in the centre bounce nowadays.

Jesse Hogan laid significantly more tackles per game this year than Josh Kennedy has in either of the past two seasons.

Tom McDonald. 20 games for 47 tackles. Jesse Hogan. 20 games for 41 tackles. Those 6 extra tackles must have been absolute bone crushers.

I'm the same, Goff. I thought I'd be distraught after losing a prelim, but we were playing West Coast in WA and we took a young team with significant structural weaknesses (especially through injury) and we beaten soundly. If we'd won it would have been a truly exceptional win. And now we go into 2019 with a flag in the forefront of our minds. We get to be a team whose season doesn't begin until September. We have a few gaps to fill still, but the cream of the team is very young and in the important spots. Plus we have significant improvement. Now I'm just excited for the new season to start. And we don't need big names to join to manufacture that excitement. We'll be in the top 2 or 3 picks for the flag next year across the board. That's a type of fun I haven't experienced before as a Melbourne fan.

This is possibly the biggest load of rubbish I have read on Demonland. Not so much the message (which is near on indecipherable) but the actual collection of words in the screen. I assume you are attempting to say that because Jesse hasn't been traded to WA yet it means that he can still get traded WA, and the way to fix that is to trade him to WA. It's like the People's Front of Judea, if they were all high.

McClure has a Carlton source, which is how he knew about McGovern. He's just extrapolating his 'Mcgovern to Carlton' info into 'Freo is not getting McGovern'. The Hogan add-on is just a guess because it will get clicks.

It will be really interesting and I agree. We are so lucky in that we have 3 assets that other teams would rip up their lists for, but we need to massage around a bit to make it work. It's like winning tattslotto and then noting that your portfolio is now overly skewed towards cash! Hogan is our best forward, but would also be our best defender. McDonald was a defender and Weideman would also be an excellent defender. At least they all play the game differently. They other thing to ponder is that we have played more even numbers ahead of the ball in the time after we used 3 talls, so there's a chance that they would work better with each other now. Plus Weideman is a much improved player since then. Weid had also taken many of his marks in packs with other talls, which provides a different option to the wrestling of Jesse and Tom. I think we'll play 3 tall forwards next year and then set up the team around them to make it work. I imagine there will be less focus on the talls to mark and more on the defensive actions, knowing that we have more marking options. I have no idea on how we will use them all, but it's going to be a really interesting discussion. I think 2018 was a year we could get away with it, given that Weid is developing, but he won't wear that next year too.

Looking at the stats of McDonald when Hogan is playing vs not playing: McDonald’s scoring shots have gone down, his disposals have gone down, his contested disposals have fallen dramatically (7 down to 2.5), has not taken any contested marks, taken less marks inside 50, kicked the ball inside 50 less, etc. His stats have fallen off dramatically since he’s had to play on the opposition’s best defender. Conversely, Weideman’s stats have improved. In fact, they are better than McDonald’s. Weid, the last 2 games, has averaged more disposals than Tom in 2018, more contested marks than Tom in 2018, and more contested possessions than Tom in 2018. Perhaps the question shouldn’t be “Hogan + McDonald vs McDonald + Weideman” but rather “Hogan + McDonald vs Hogan + Weideman”. ?‍♂️

Are you saying that Hogan = Kelly + Lynch? We spent 2 first round picks on Lever, and he was uncontracted. You’d have to spend more than that on Kelly alone. Plus Lynch is RFA, so draft picks aren’t important. If we got pick 5 and Cerra for Hogan, we’d give them straight to GWS for Kelly. Then we have give Lynch a vault of cash .... which we can’t afford after paying Kelly who got that to re-sign with GWS on a long term deal. You haven’t thought this through.

Before Hogan was injured he took 24 contested marks and McDonald took 28. Since Hogan has been out of the team, McDonald hasn’t taken any, while Weideman has taken 6. It’s funny what happens when you have to play on the number 1 key defender each week.

I’m pretty sure that doesn’t apply here.

Actually the original post declared that we should trade him for 2 first rounders. But the thread shouldn’t be closed just because it’s a stupid thread. It should be left open as a shrine to the dim wittery of many football supporters. Trading the best young key forward in the game for draft picks when we are about to push towards a flag ..... that is just stupid. Free speech allows you to say many things. But once your view is out there then it can be derided by anyone. Trading Hogan for draft picks is an opinion worthy of derision.

This gets mentioned, but it originated on here as without any evidence (only Wines-Viney friendship) and then just kept getting repeated until some people believed it. It's 99% likely to be untrue.

Who would give us a better overall option than a proven 23 year old marquee key forward? The idea of trading him for something 'better' is moot, since that would have to be so enormous that it would croke another footy club to the point that there would be no point doing the deal. Plus, even if we trade him for 5, Cerra and another first round pick, we're trying to win premierships in the next few years. This is going to be Hogan's prime and the draft picks will still be developing. People give the goals stats, but Hogan's best game for the season was probably in a loss against Richmond. Hogan plays a different style to TMac, who is lower possession and higher goal kicking. Hogan plays much better than Tom when further from goal and is a far better goal creator. As a key forward, Hogan averaged over 18 disposals and 2.4 goals a game and Tom 15.5 dpg and 2.8 goals. We have a proper competitive advantage, and people want to trade that away?

I expected to log into this thread to find that my post had earned me a suspension! ?

Actually, Sadler said that the rule was not being followed properly. This was their original post. Larkins just thinks that the current rule means that too many players have to come from the ground. He says this because the risk of infection is so small. My response is about the rule being followed. I haven’t heard or seen any evidence that this rule is not being followed properly.

Why not? He is a talented ball user, leader, a great size and provides us with some composure in a young defence. Former early draft pick that I think can flourish with a change of club.

However a $2000 fine to a rookie on $71,000 pa is enormous.