fr_ap

You, and Sydney, are winning me over Still think the blues will get home unfortunately

Interesting, I wouldnt have thought that was the case Good discussion lads

Agree their profile is hugely offensive - historically very few teams have held that profile up in finals. Hope you're right.

That's Carltons doing mate - implied pressure, bull midfielders and first to the ball. A better team might combat it better, sure. For what it's worth Sydney are overrated - defensively been leaky for most of this year but it hasnt been acknowledged by the populace. But they're still generally a good team. Carlton are better. All that said Sydney lifting a little - don't think it will matter though

Anyone who thinks the umpires or Sydney have anything to do with this doesn't know what they're watching I said it after our pre season loss and will say it again now - if you watch Carlton closely they have found a formula. Contested stuff off the chart - ride tackles as well as any team, serious serious front half pressure, killer key forwards - that's all obvious. But watch their contest stuff - they outnumber, they space well, and they've reached the tipping point good teams do where they have so much confidence in winning the contest they're taking risks while teammates are getting tackled. Intangible stuff is high too - a team in unison, working for each other, clearly in sync. 3rd year I think under Andrew Russell - they've found the running power that takes a few years to build. Doing it ATM without their #1 ruck, Coleman medallist, and a host of others - there's serious depth there. 8-2 - not had the easiest draw - they absolutely have to be taken seriously. Anything less than a prelim is a failure for them. Hope it's not against us (serious 2018 Richmond v Collingwood vibes) as they are genuinely the only team that could overpower us both in the midfield and particularly with Curnow, McKay and their honest worker small fwds. How they go in Finals is the only unknown - with Voss at the helm and the way they're playing I don't think anything will scare them. They'll be there right to the very end. Don't you just hate to see it

Of course Yeo comes back for us. He absolutely hates us, can see it written all over his face when he plays us

Rosman?? Guy can't get near it at casey. Strange call

Taking him at face value....he says he doesn't know what decision he will make. That in itself means he is strongly considering leaving. Call me crazy but I think it makes a lot of sense. He has family there (Andrew & others), would get a much bigger payday he is unlikely to get at the Dees for the rest of his career, and it would be a great adventure and test for him & Danielle before they settle down. Yes their lives are here...but they're beyond connected in footy circles and would have no shortage of mates over there in no time. Freo are on the up too and presuming they don't go all the way this year he would be joining a team poised to challenge where he can help push them over the line. He'd be remembered as a stalwart of both clubs, finish his career a multi club flag player (if they can get there), have more midfield time, more money, and lived (semi) abroad as a circuit breaker before he hits 30 and settles down. Of course he loves his teammates. That won't be a significant factor as he's the type of guy that will fit into any club. If I were in his shoes, I'd be telling Danielle let's have an adventure and see where this takes us. I would go.

1) arms out is not a sign of disrespect. I'd be staggered if any of the current umpires really think so and if they do, I'd argue they are in the wrong profession, and 2) they won't get respect until they can do their job appropriately. Improving the standard is CRITICAL to the respect situation. Save for a small minority, players do not go out of their way to openly disrespect umpires. They are educated on this from an early age and you would find most would in fact acknowledge how important umpires are and how difficult their job can be. Players are also educated on rules and rule changes extensively. On that basis, it is fair to deduce that most of the time, accounting for players personal biases and emotional state, if a player gets angry and expresses his frustration towards an umpire, it reflects his confusion or frustration with the umpires decision. This is very different to disrespect. IF however that confusion/frustration is going to be badged as disrespect, then do something about the confusion/frustration. This starts and ends with improving the standard of umpiring.

Surely you can see that giving them unfettered power to make plainly ridiculous, finicky, pathetic decisions makes this worse, not better? Here's how you build respect: you market AFL umpiring as a full time job. A specialist, important, valued role complete with an attractive package that is worth the scrutiny. You improve the standards. You acknowledge that it is a job that will by definition not please half the spectators that are watching. You acknowledge that is OK and you build resilience towards that dynamic at the top level. You develop an academy with young umpires who you teach these same values. You teach them that sport is a highly physical and emotional endeavour that pushes humans to their limits, and that people can at times step over the line. With this in mind you set the tolerance level for this at reasonable limits, acknowledging that the physical and emotional endeavour is a key reason you have a job running a spectator sport in the first place. Better yet, you acknowledge that the only reason anyone wants to umpire is because they love the sport. So at all times, your guiding principle is that the more you improve the game, the more fans and in turn umpires you attract. That is the long road, and as usual the AFL will take the short road. Muzzling the players is simply not the answer, and it won't stick at local level nor make one iota of tangible difference at a societal level. Ultimately it is not the AFLs job to teach people to respect one another, and if they try they will fail. Their product is just one example in a spectrum of actors, screenwriters, politicians, writers, business people that people and children are watching and emulating whilst being moulded by their parents, teachers and friends. To suggest AFL is anything more than a very small input into this gamut of influences is wrong and stinks of the AFL execs misunderstanding their place focusing on all the wrong things, no doubt led by their lawyers and the PR machine. Their job is to protect the longevity of the game. Simplifying the rules and training people to apply those mostly correctly would do this.

It's an interesting dynamic in soccer exacerbated by the global nature - cultures that are much more overtly 'passionate' than ours can I think make it look worse than it perhaps is (to your point). Even so, the imagery of it is poor. I too played at lower levels for a long time and think at the lower levels it's actually generally OK save for some very rough neighbourhoods where respect generally is not a term well understood, towards umpires, neighbours spectators or anyone really ... But at the top level in soccer there is a very clear disdain for the refs from players in my view. The ridiculous pay gap between players and refs encourages (maybe validates) this. This then manifests throughout the crowds, pubs, adults and children as disrespect. But tbh, it's a minor issue compared to the other correlations soccer has with things like domestic violence. The game's so popular and so idolised that they've got no shortage of refs coming through. I don't think AFL players have that disdain for umpires but I think the standards are worse, and they therefore generally are expressing frustration stemming from confusion. The hands out 50 just makes this even worse.

It's a difficult issue. I grew up in what many would call an 'umpire abusive' household. "White maggot" was thrown around a lot and we were more or less taught that abusing all of the umpire, the opposition and even our own players at the footy (within reason) was ok. This was always at odds to how we were taught to treat people in other settings. It is odd now I think about it and it's not Ok. We need to avoid the game becoming like Soccer is globally. Players surround the referee, intimidate them, mouth of at them and gesticulate in all directions. I'm a mad soccer man and I hate it. So I support any measures designed to address the issue of umpire respect. That said, respect for respects sake isnt the way. It can't be token or forced. The media, the public, and just about everyone is readily abusive of players, politicians, administrators, and other people in high profile professions. It's part and parcel of accountability and how we as a collective shape behaviours and demand improvement. If the AFL cares as much as they say, make the umpires professionals. Pay them a salary and a game bonus and make it attractive relative to the scrutiny and pressure. Train them, promote them, drop them and raise the standards of umpiring, because they are poor and it is clear to all. They have a huge impact on the product, the results, the health and safety of players and the fortunes of an industry of people working towards life long goals. It's an enormously important and underappreciated role. I appreciate there are 8 games a week and what, 8-10 umpires per game? So its perhaps a staff of 50 all up. $10m p.a. at $200k each. AFLx cost more than that surely? They can't demand respect when the standards are so poor. They can't have it both ways.

Tmac played on Ridley who is just about Essendons best player and an AA calibre defender. In any case, Tmac has been very poor I agree - my point is more generally as to whether Weid 'has it' or not, rather than who should go out next week for BBB. It's much of a muchness on current output. Taberner is ok, but doesn't scare any opposition fan or defender. He's also Freo's sole tall forward (their other a resting ruck) and would receive a very high % of their entries directed towards him. He's not a great yardstick but is probably a good representation of what Weid could be with some consistency...

How many times do I have to say it, he kicked 4 on Jayden Laverde! The bloke had 7 kicked on him today by...Taberner. Seriously, take Weid's 4 goal performance against Essendon with a grain of salt. I thought he was Ok last night but let's not pretend he's regularly kicking bags on the best defenders.

I said it at the time - Weideman kicked 4 on Jayden Laverde, who's a really ordinary player and not at all a natural defender. The last couple of weeks he's played on better defenders - Jonas gave him a bath and Taylor/Haynes are very good. Against this calibre of defender Weid is not up to scratch. The Essendon game showed us nothing new. It's why he dominates in the VFL against Laverde-style opponents.

It won't do any good for his confidence but Weid has to go. Not only did he fail to impose himself on the game, he's got zero chemistry and spoiled Tom, Max and Jacko on numerous occasions. He's got zero chemistry with any of them and I don't think he can work with BBB either - they are more similiar players than Tom and BBB and would both operate too close to goal. Don't forget that Weid played on Laverde last week. He's a pretty poor player who was an oversized half forward flanker until 8 months ago... Tom is not shooting the lights out by any means but he was better tonight and I have far more confidence with him in the team over Sam I've been wrong before and hope I am again. I'm just not sure the guy has it against the best defenders in the land

Hurley is a pretty good comparison actually, I can see that

I attended Rd 1 at Casey and don't agree with this description. He's much thicker than Fritsch and not elusive in the way that Fritsch is. There are some small elements of Naughton....but his timing is not quite at that level and he certainly doesn't jump as high. Gunston? Yeah maybe a little. Not a comparison that jumped out at me. Honestly the player he reminded me of the most - but it's not a perfect comparable - was Jesse. Largely in the way he works up the ground - hustle bustle - with a low ish centre of gravity, good and tough at ground level at that 193cm mark, which honestly these days is almost small in the age of 2m KPPs. I think he's more dynamic than Hogan - can jump higher and chase faster - but not quite as good at the ground ball body positioning stuff that served Jesse so well even as a young player. The other place my mind went particularly on the up & back endurance stuff was Saint Nick. Also maybe a little of Jack Darling but not quite as rigid/straight line? If I had to give a triple comparison those would be the three. He's not the finished article but it was an impressive first showing. Sandy were pretty crap though - waiting to see more.

Don't take me too literally on 'diving' - Diving/embellishing/seeking contact/looking for frees - this is what we're referring to. An overall approach in his game which is designed to win free kicks. He was their best forward last night, agree. He's a good player. If you don't see it now you probably never will - all good, agree to disagree

I don't have the time to go and hunt through footage. Maybe start with the EF against Essendon last year and otherwise, watch some full Bulldogs games and make an effort to observe his behaviour. I think I fairly clearly explained what I don't like and made clear it's about his behaviour, not what I think his true character might be. I've got nothing against him personally and wanted us to draft him at one point when like you I'd only seen his highlights and footy skills. You asked why people don't like him so I took the time to explain - then you turn around and say nah, you just don't like him? If you'd watched him enough you'd very likely agree. I know the vast majority of people feel as I do about him. Anyway, enough wasted breath and time on an opposition player - was trying to inform but if you're going to shut my view down anyway then let's move on

I've retracted the germ tag and regret including it in my first post...but it's not as simple as 'we don't like the way he high 5s after a goal'. We get he's an excitable young player and I said, he's pretty good. That's exciting for him, Dogs fans and neutrals. But throw in the playing for free kicks (he is absolutely at Lindsay Thomas level if not worse to the poster who said they can't see it) together with the over-celebration and it paints a picture of him being disingenuous, somewhat arrogant, and perhaps presumptuous and almost entitled. It's hard to describe - but there's a level of affectation that makes it seem like he's not even celebrating for himself, rather just to make a scene and get under people's noses, as he himself knows he perhaps hasn't earned what he's got. Certainly not to the point where he can celebrate like he's the best of all time. He knows he's annoying and it's very off-putting that he embraces it seemingly as a character trait. Put it this way - you're playing local footy and the opposition tackles you for a ball up. Everyone gets up off the ground and life goes on. Then this kid gets up in your face bouncing around whooping and carrying on about his teammate making a tackle. He doesn't direct it at you, but it's within sight and earshot and you know he's doing it at least partially to get your attention & annoyance. Now rinse and repeat, every game at every F50 stoppage. It wouldnt take long for you to tell him to relax and calm down, failing which you'll probably run through him when you get the chance later in the game. He wins a free kick. He overcelebrates, and around we go again. There are those who play in the right spirit and those who don't. Doing it under the guise of 'thats just Cody being Cody', which in these PC days means he is immune from criticism, makes it even worse. He was the same draft as Koz and we did consider him closely. I was fan based on highlight videos as his talent is plain to see. It wasn't until I actually watched him over the course of a game that his behaviour became clearer. It has nothing to do with Koz - couldn't be happier he is ours. Not everyone will get it as we all project our biases onto others, but this is what I see and what I find annoying.

Fair enough it is harsh, he doesn't deserve that. I'll edit it, thanks mate

He has a lot of talent - but absolutely bends the rules. Flops on the ground, in the air and generally dives the moment he feels contact. Worse, he then celebrates his ill gotten gains (goals) harder than most celebrate a running team lifter. Over the top and ridiculous. Does it for non goals too - a teammate makes a run of the mill tackle and watch him bounce around with fake bravado and joy. if he concentrated half as hard on his game and role as he does on geeing himself and others up he'd be an even better player. Case in point - in all his crazy enthusiasm he tried to mark that ball on the goal line in the 1st QTR of the GF. Was going through for a goal - a crucial, grand final first quarter goal. He was so excited he genuinely stopped the goal and damn near knocked himself out in the process

Absolutely on the money. 38 point loss

Now I'm well aware of how silly this sounds but there was a moment in the 3rd quarter that kind of summed Weideman up for me. He was on the bench waiting to come on for Rooter (their nickname for Van Rooyen) & play was stuck on the other half of the ground. He yelled Rooter a couple of times. Loud, but not loud enough. Rooter didn't hear it and stayed on for probably 2 minutes longer than he should have. Sam yelled twice and then stood with hands on hips, defeated. Meanwhile, two players for Sandy were rotated (whilst play was still on the far wing) after their counterparts were far louder and more intense in demanding rotation, whilst they were down by 60. It's stupid I know, but it was just a really stark contrast at the ground. I like the kid and hope he can find some intensity. My honest opinion is it's going to take a trade to make it happen. His biggest strength as a junior - flies at the ball with long arms - is his biggest weakness as a senior. Applies no body, wants to use reach only. Block, buffet or engage Sam and you've won the contest. JVR was far more dynamic, intense and hardworking at the ground, despite clearly not quite having the fitness for it and 6 years less in the system. I worry for Sam - looks a footballer, seems to think he is a footballer, engaged to be married and approaching his prime, but his career has been a bit of a non starter really