deanox

Best chance to beat them in a while. And a good opportunity for our boys to prove to themselves they are on the way up with 2 in a row.

http://m.afl.com.au/news/2014-06-21/dons-stand-by-deal-claim I feel this is starting to piece together. Essendon believe they were given a hall pass by ASADA last February, this their arrogance for the past 18 months. From what I saw of the "email trail" last week it appears that Essendon has inferred that being of assistance early in the piece automatically counts as "assistance" and that the self reporting and "we didn't know" was enough to count as "no fault or negligence". It would be interesting to see if the emails explained both "no fault" and "no significant fault". The email published certainly said players "can" not "will", and unless that is written elsewhere I imagine the players won't have a leg to stand on.

We've missed shine chances er could have taken. But similar to our AFL opponents we have been taking shots from difficult angles. Box Hill has class by foot that Casey doesn't.

Bonus points for using chagrin. My favourite word and the first time I've read it on this forum in over 10 years of posting!

Great Mark by Fitzpatrick!

IF anyone ever took QB from us there should be an uproar. We have played on 55ish QB's since 1936 (when it became a PH) and on a number of "June public holiday Mondays" before it was called QB. It is close to the oldest tradition in the AFL. I'd happily play in the Sydney Melbourne GF match for exposure. But it would seem unfair to those clubs who have lobbied.

Dannyz and ET, I wasn't being definitive (Blease and Barry might make it, Toumpas may not and I was suitably impressed with Georgiou earlier this year as doth to the squad), I was just commenting that the MFC players certainly won't strike fear into any hearts. Especially, as WJ says, compared to the Hawthorn squad.

Western Bulldogs President Peter Gordon says ASADA should withdraw its investigation against Essendon players Honestly, if you don't understand the standards of proof required, why would you comment publicly at all?

It is a weak looking MFC contingent imo. Toumpas, Kennedy-Harris, Gawn and Terlich I expect to have further AFL careers. Fitzpatrick and Michie I hold out hope for. But Strauss, Georgiou, Nicholson, Barry, Evans, Byrnes, Blease and Tapscott are surely either depth, past it or not really going to make it, and wouldn't strike fear into opposition hearts. Harmes I haven't seen enough of. Also a distinct lack of afl listed height, which is usually one area vfl teams struggle. Hopefully we can get a for quartet worry this week!

Right now i'd lose Frawley to Freo for pick 5 if it reduced the chances they would make a play for Hogan!

I think for a first time forward he has been fantastic. He has been dangerous forward, particularly as a lead up and has taken a lot of marks. IF he can improve his marking by getting the dukes out in front he could be very very dangerous and much more effective. I am not sure Roos is treating him like a swing man at the moment; he hasn't been thrown back when possibly needed. That being said, if Hogan gets into the team, we then have three tall forwards, and maybe we'll have the luxury of switching him as required. I'd like to keep him, but to me I think he is less important to us than he was at the start of the year. It somewhat depends on Roos' prefered structure. I can't see us playing with Frawley, Dawes, Hogan, Watts and Pederson up forward with Dunn, Garland, Howe and TMac down back. We were top heavy with a similar set up (with Gawn instead of Hogan) I'd like one of the tall forwards to also be a ruck. So for team balance, are we better off taking the pick 5 and drafting another KPP to develop and replace one of the current players in 4 years? I'd love to keep him, but right now, for pick 5, I won't be upset; provided the current players maintain form and Hogan steps up and stays.

After 12 rounds James Frawley is leading the goal kicking with 11. The lowest on record is 13 in 1913 (Mick Maguire) but since 1920 we haven't had a leading goal kicker below 20, and 26 is the lowest since 1967 (Brad Miller in 2008).

In no particular order these are the guys I'd like kicking for my life: Jack Watts Christian Salem Lyndon Dunn Jeremy Howe Bernie Vince Chris Dawes

You are right, in that the big teams back themselves in but also they can cover the loss easier. Maybe it is or lack of success that drives it but the right of losing a crucial piece of the puzzle is hard to come to terms with. If in 4 years we are threatening and Freo is sliding I would think the Le would be much less than it is now.

I can't comment on the fourth v fifth but I wonder of the distinction is in points conceded (which includes rushed behinds) versus opposition scores conceded. Average of 1 point per rushed behind each week sounds conceivable?

If Hogan bursts onto the scene like we hope he does and has 3-4 great years and threatens to be the competitions best forward we would get 2 first round picks or a solid player and a first rounder for him. If we lose him to FA after 6 years (like the AFLPA want) weer will get one first round pick for him. If we rise up the ladder that might be pick 10-18. That is nix compared to what he would be worth as a dominate forward.

I hate the FA thing. I find the concept that we should consider trading away a player just to make sure that he doesn't leave for nix as a FA very uncomfortable.

I agree that many (including myself) have new quick to reach a conclusion without seeing the evidence ourselves. Unfortunately it is in our nature to for an opinion, not sit on the fence. And in this case I don't think I've seen/heard much with respect to actual conflicting evidence. I've heard: "we didn't take illegal substances" but also "we don't know what we took". That screams dishonesty to me. We have Essendon now fighting the process, not the evidence. We have "we don't have records" versus "essendon had all the records" We have "we took TB4" then "oh actually is illegal? Oh we didn't take it we took something else". Now maybe I have been well led by the media I have read, but I have tried to read both sides and form an onion. I just haven't heard any compelling evidence that suggests that maybe everything really was above board, while it would seem unbelievable for ASADA to have gone through the reviews it has and still come up with the show cause notices. If it wouldn't stick it would be a safer process to back away staying there isn't enough evidence. If it doesn't stick it will destroy ASADA. The most plausible alternative theory I have heard might have come from you: Dank was purveying the illegal substances through Essendon for other clients. But we've heard nothing of the sort through the media. The only arguments I've heard from the pro Essendon camp have, imo, been clearly misinformation or even downright lies. Attacking the man not the ball.

Nutbean you make valid points, good debate. I think one of the main issues is that in normal law you need to prove "beyond reasonable doubt" but in this case ASADA only need to prove "beyond the balance of probabilities". That suggests to me the paper records, receipts, testimony and "circumstantial evidence" along with the side "loss" of records and the (presumed at this stage) lack of records of ordering the "good" thymosin will together paint a picture where it is more than probable that the players took the drugs. The only way in my mind that the players get off are if enough doubt can be shed on what the players were given that it is no longer "likely". If it can be shown Dank ordered the drugs for other clients, or if there are other email trails discussing the "good" thymosin which confuse the issue. Does that sound reasonable?

They were on the internal intranet which at Essendon FC is backed up more than weekly to external locations. And it wouldn't surprise me if ASADA or the ACC already have those records. And regardless, Essendon aren't the CIA, they are a football club with an understaffed/underpaid IT department. But let's say they did delete the records for the purpose of your argument. If they are completely innocent, why would Essendon delete them? It can't work both ways. They had the records. If they don't have them any more it is because they were incriminating and they choose to delete them. Any possibility of innocence in absence of those records is obscenely small.

Essendon had records. Which means they still have records. These things get backed up and don't get deleted. Also, given is sounds like the ACC shared some of its evidence with ASADA, it is possible that ASADA already has those records. If you are summoned by the ACC you are not allowed to reveal that. He may have had to hand his records over 12 months ago. Who knows? They have 10 days to respond. I expect they'll ask for an extension and receive it, although I hope it is all sorted with a month. Out of interest 10 days happens to be how long until the first federal court hearing (June 27).

I'd like him on our list because he wants to come to Melbourne. It would be a brave club to bid a pick in the top 20 on him given his size, so I suspect third round is looking likely at this stage, but there is still three months of footy before this is settled.

I thought the Essendon deliberate was worse. Tmac didn't really have many other options, only grab it and get tackled over the line. He was running at pave with a player on his heals. The Essendon one was the result of a 40 m kick directly at the line when no team mates were within a cooee. It was a deliberate kick for touch when other options to keep the ball in were available but unfavourable (would have resulted in us taking possession).

They have had allegations outlined in Show Cause notices and have been invited to provide (within 10 days) information explaining either why they are not guilty or why they should have sentences reduced for no significant fault or providing assistance etc. After their response is reviewed they may be placed on a register of findings when I believe they can no longer play.

Such an awesome tackle. Wrapped him up and dumped him. We should do that more often. Physically imposing ourselves on the game is a big step towards winning every week.