Rhino Richards

Yes Sir!

Pants its an interesting comment. TJ has shown in bursts that he can play footy at the highest level. But its bursts and there are times where he just disappears. Frustrating I loved Brock's game against the Saints last year. A couple more of those performances will really put him in the top shelf.

You are halfway there fatty. Tactics like the flood are there to bottle up play when the opposition has the ball or to nullify the opportunity for the opposition to get it. Kicking out has become more of a science since the days of kicking the scrubby punt as far as you could. With the abilty to generate attacks from defence, teams recognise the importance of the kick in both when they did it and when they dont have it. Huddles and zone defences are a part of trying to maintain or create a turnover of possession The traditional team structure of six backs, six midfielders and six forwards has been replaced by team patterns where the aside from a ruckman, a power forward, a power back are typically 6ft to 6 ft 3in mobile skilled running players that can cover vast territories of ground. All sides have them to varying degrees and quality. The impact of the greater skills and fitness together with the now four man interchange mean that the ability of the sides to really hurt teams on the scorebaord and really get a run on is an opposing coach's nightmare and difficult to reign in. One of the most interesting aspects of a game is that when momentum changes in a game the ability of a losing team with momentum to quickly whittle away a sizeable lead an win is notable. In regard to the kick outs, the team with the ball has the option of either kicking to a contest (high risk of losing possession) or trying to find a teammate. Often they choose the initial kick to the back pocket. Teams are so well drilled that coaches will tear strips off players who aloow their opponent to get an uncontested possession at or around the 50 metre mark. Its not just a choice of the team kicking out but part of the plan of the opposition to corral the team to one side or area of the ground. After the kick in to the pocket, does the side change direction, seek another short pass around the flank as the opposition have manned up and have numbers in the centre corridor forcing you to play to certain parts of the ground? Technicians will argue that the merit of the tactics but there is no doubt that to visual eye that the beauty of the AFL game is tarnished. Flooding tactics and the generation of continual ball ups by Wallace and Roos are a blight on the game. No one would argue that. The AFL has brought in a number of measures to speed up the game as it has found that each year there are more stoppages now than the previous year. Hence, you dont wait for the waving of the flags after a point to kick in. No one on this site who has understood why tactics like "tempo" and "run and carry" are used, have not recognised what it does to the game. Please name and out those posters who dont if you dare. You made the claim. However, as you have pointed out that running the corridor and bombing it long to a contest is fatally flawed. There are times in game to do it and its effective but not always . However, it cannot be your sole tactic and rarely for 100 minutes of the game. In past years, MFC have been picked off by smarter clubs when it has continually run the corridor. After 40+ years in the wilderness, I would like to MFC to win a flag. I am happy for MFC to do what it has to do within the rules of the game to achieve this. I am prepared to back a coach who has built a good list and has to date had a reasonable level of success and he deserves the right during his caocking tenure to explore tactics that will further enhance our success. For example, there is no doubt that the greater focus to the contested ball and the ability at appropriate times to implement a tempo style of footy enhanced our results last year. We need to go the next step. We have to be able to compete and win in Adelaide and in Perth if we are to go that next step. Clearly the tactics used in past years have not worked. However the regular potshots taken on this site at the MFC coaching staff by posters who have demonstrated little or no understanding of the background and reason for such tactics or when such tactics are used in a game despite the many patient and reasoned explanations given, ridicule themselves.

I'm with you Gouga on this one. I share your hopes.

I would always be careful about placing any weight on posters who brandish facts based on a reliable "sauce". Caveat emptor.

I dont propose Neitz play a CHF role. But the changing demands of football suggest to me that you need only one gorilla most of the time up forward. At 32, Melb does have an issue as to what to do for succession. As Old 55 pointed out it is not that the Club has not tried. And good gorilla forwards are so hard to find. We fell over more often in the midfield more than CHF and much of the weakness resulted from the way we moved the ball. But you are right about the issue of mobility but I dont know if they are CHFs. I would suggest there more roaming HFs. I guess you might have been referring to Dunn and Miller. i think Dunn has to the ability and will rise to the occassion over time. I dont see Miller cutting it no matter how much posters are willing him to be what he ihas shown that is not. I think Robbo is a dilemna. His best work is done in the FF line where he is hard to mark up as plays "tall". However he is not mobile enough for HFF. My concern this year is that he carries the knee injury from last year and if his mobility is reduced he will close to useless and end up at Sandy.

Given some of the injuries involved it certainly is not a matter of just when they play their first game but also when they are confident enough to rely on their body fully without concern of the underlying injury. Given the role Hayes will be playing, he will need to totally over his ACL problem. BTW, does Luke Ball still have OP?

Your posts just confirm how little you know about either tactic. Run and Carry does not mean run, carry and hand ball far too often.Old has quite clearly outlined the case as to why ND seeks to implement something different like run and carry after previous floggings in Adelaide and Perth. However you have continually bagged such efforts while demonstrating a lack of understanding of why or when such tactics are implemented in a game. Poor execution of a tactic does not necessarily condemn the tactic itself. MFC's holding possession though short kicks, backwards and sidewayswas not an attempt to slow the game down and rid Adelaide of their momentum was a reflection of the pressure and the uncertainty in their minds when they had the ball. It was not a deliberate tactic but a function of the impact of the oppositions tactics and the inability to create any positive outcomes from run and carry. I dont know you personally and any undermining of you has been self inflicted.

How fit will Gehrig be this year? I thought he looked disinterested for alot of last year. FWIW, I think Clarke can cover for Gardiner in the short term. I am not sure what Gardiner will actually do for the Saints, He definitely has a large monkey on his back to deal with. Is Maguire going to be ready also?

So which is it Pedro? "Run and Carry" or "tempo". They are both different. But of course you cant pick it... B) After many previous thumpings at Adelaide, we attempted to introduce "run and carry" as a means of breaking the Adelaide team game. BTW, WCE played Adelaide in Round 17 we played Adelaide in Round 22. We played it badly and lacked the training to implement it effectively against a side fully on the rebound at home in front of a rampant home crowd. Its not a matter of having Judd, Kerr and Cousins but it flosses your argument. And that result does not condemn the tactic. The implementation needs to be improved. As Old says football game is series of ebbs and flows that requires the implementation of different plays to combat the moves and plays of the opposition. Run and carry is just one such tactic to use. BTW,we could have hardly played tempo football as it requires you to have control of the football. We didn't have the ball against Adelaide. I am not sure Old's quote is a misquote. Its damn accurate description of the impression you make on this site. Sure the cap is not on too tight?

Nothing like cutting your nose off despite your face. Should we fine him as well? Surely if it is true, the Club will handle the matter far more responsibly.

I dont think its a move away from power forwards. I think it is a matter that you need one rather than two. I also think that the changes that have occurred in the game have happened within the last 3 to 5 years. So I think the Lions hat trick may be the somewhat during the start of the changes. I note that the Lions will be having J Brown up forward but not sure they will play another power forward. I am not sure that the Saints with Gehrig and Riewoldt work smoothly last year and they became somewhat predictable for oppositions to counter. I disagree that the Eagles dont have a power forward. They have Quinten Lynch (194cm/103kgs) who in last years GF displayed some of the awesome marking potential he has and kicked 3 crucial goals. If he blossoms then WCE will be even more potent.

Agree. I think the modern game is moving away from the standard FF/CHF model. I think Tredrea, Brown, Hall all float in that role. Toss in Pavlich ( On song he can play anywhere). Power forwars are hard to come by and we probably wont appreciate the importance of Neitz until he is gone.

1. Point and self description noted. 2. I am not sure it is "much harder for ND and Co to make that sort of call because they have 6-figure salaries, and 4 Premiership points, riding on their decisions." That's their job FCS. They have all the information, they should understand its relative importance and that is what they are paid to do. Its alot harder for judgemental people like ourselves sitting in the row Q thrid tier to understand the machinations. Far from being averse to risks they would be emboldened to enact tactics that actually work and enhance their tenure. 3. Agree on Yze. Its been four years of soft performances. Yze can play outstanding top shelf football and that has been the swecretv to his longevity. The potential to win games for MFC However it has become more amd more infrequent and on his selfish terms. He's lazy and his demise has been coming. Miller definiftely tries and is prepared to put his body on the line for the team. He is just not that good where he will get near to Yze's level. Miller has plateaud in the past 2 years and during that time has had OP so I will give him sone grace. For a while he looked the best option at CHF. I dont think that is the case now. Both are line ball this year on there performances. Yze's omission is long overdue. Good luck with the inferiority issue. I am sure something from Harvard will help.

No.I judge PJ from watching him play for MFC, WCE and Sandy over the past three years. I have already passed judgement over Miller ad nauseam on this site. Not good enough or smart enough to play CHF. Maybe a chance up back where he plays a simple negating role. Both players are limited. I am not sure either will make it.

Playing PJ at CHF was done against Carlton 1st round last year. What a disaster. If he is a short ruckman that cant mark. He will be useless at CHF. It is easy for the computer chair sitters to make calls that dont have full information on and are not accountable when they go wrong. How is Miller a favorite of ND's after he has been demoted from the leadership group in recent years? And what is "popular opinion"? Hardly informed.

I dont think so.... Miller 194cm/96kg Lucas 192/98 Perrie 193/100 Hansen 198/95 Franklin 196/99 Cloke 195/89 Mooney 195/99 Miller has the physical attributes. That's not the issue.

Neitz was ill and left the ground at half time having kicked three goals. Imagine what he would be like if fit.

Check the two threads discussing the Melb vs Rich game. He got a mention. The big thing is that he got through allright.

Thanks for everyone's input and summaries. To those who went. .... What impact did the heat have on both sides and the game? I am curious that after a good first half we just went in the second half.

Good Post BBP and thanks for the summary.

Well put Old!

Neitz is quick on the burst not sustained pace.Its unrealistic to expect a 32 yo to lug 100kg in a position demanding moblity for 100 minutes. He was never the best CHB in the competition. He was rated highly by a couple of opponents when he played there in the mid to late 90s. Jakovich was a better CHB. So dont grease the point. And I dont see the purpose in tossing the structure like a salad to facilitate a player who cant play a certain position for 100 minutes. Our backline is not the issue. Its steady enough. Why fracture the forward line? Neitz is critical to our forward 50. I would suggest the playing of a CHF/FF structure may be replaced by one power forward (Neitz) and five other forwards (including Dunn). We did not play a formal CHF for much of last year and I dont think we will this year. As I have said elsewhere Miller aint it. Dunn is a HFF type player not a KPF.

Are you sure or just linking two events to suit your position? Anyway, I think Scoop and Brocky have reflected the proper need to be realistice and reasonable in people's assessments. Unfortunately it is difficult for some posters.

Thank God you are not. Neitz is in the twilight of his career and playing him at CHB would hasten a speedy retirement and not provide us with a CHB that could handle the pace of the game for 100 minutes. And that leaves us with no presence at FF. And Dunn is not a KPF and neither is Miller.