Rhino Richards

Maybe Pratt can pay the family's court costs. http://www.theage.com.au/news/Sport/Whitna...2338776933.html Whitnall is leading the leadership group by example now.

Spot on Graz. Add Ben Cousins to the lucky list.

Good luck to Wardy in the future dealing with his issues. FWIW, Daniel Kerr should count himself very lucky for what he got.

I guess supporters at St Kilda, Richmond and Bulldogs have said the same thing.

Moloney and Sylvia both have OP issues from the past which are difficult and variable to treat. I am all for careful treatment of players at this point to get them cherry ripe for September. FWIW, in 2005, Sydney had a long list of pre season injuries and got the list right for the business end of the season.

TBG, My response was to answer Satan's labelling us a Clayton's Club for doing it. You are arguing my point. Without my any direct reference to your financial decision, brey, the downside is that some or most of 3000 MCC members that currently coughed up $150 (God bless the lot of you!) pay only $40 next year. In simple maths, a loss of up to $330,000 of membership revenue.

Finks, I am thinking that Robbo might dish a few chances off to others! I share your queries over Franklin Scoop. Could be something special but I am not sure yet.

I think you wrong Toad. But I am talking about the skill levels required to play the respective roles. And you require greater skill to play up forward than you do when you are back for the following simple reasons: 1. You have to convert the opportunities (both good and bad) that are provided by teammates up the ground with the phyiscial pressure of your direct opponent and other opponents flooding back. 2. Secondly when you attack and hopefully get the ball 9 times out of 10 you have your back to the goals and need to either dish off or engineer the play to get yourself at least partially facing the goal. 3. You need to convert the possession either as a goal or to someone else who is in a better possession often under the same pressure as in one. 4. If you dont have the ball ensure that you retain or retard the exit of the pill from your forward line. A backman's primary job is to defend and to ensure he beats his direct opponent. Achieving that he also needs to be able to initiate counterattacks where the opposition turns over the pill in their F50. There is no conundrium for backman. If your team does not have the ball.....he defends. (Cant attack when you dont have it can you?) and when your side have the ball you might be considering involvement in the counterattack up to the centreline. Hardly rocket science is it. Even simpler for a limited footballer like Miller......nullify your opponent. That's where Miller best chances lie. He is an uncertain and flaky kick. He has little scope for contested marking. Is invisible in the F50 (and chases stats up on the wing). Is lousy below his knees and his appetite for the physical stuff has landed him silly suspensions without making discernible phyisical presence in the F50. Not a FF's bootlace. I'd put Juice in front of him for that role...even now!

How does that affect the sponsors? Any MCC member that forks the MFC membership in addition to their MCC Membership dues is already a potentially attractive target to sponsors. I only hope those fine people that pay the existing $150 for MFC/MCC membership continue to dip in each year. Good on em for foing so anyway.

Bollocks. A backman's first job is to stop a forward. Its that simple. I am talking about Miller being serviceable not good. Brad Miller has had 90 games and this is his sixth year of football so how much more experience does he need to do the basics? What is a "true CHF" or "real CHF" in today's football? Its a lot different to what it was 5 years ago. Miller and Dunn are different types of players and I dont think you can play one beside the other with our game plan. If it's going to take you until 2009 to work out that Miller cant play CHF, what sort of valuable cherry will other clubs toss up to gain such a catch?

I agree with your comments. I thought Buckley may have been getting used to "run and carry". He did look good though.

To be fair Miller has not been used much down back and there have been two instances on Hall in the few times he has been back. Also Pavlich at the MCG last year. He is not going to be a world beater down there I am looking at Miller's limited skills and based on the simple requirements for a forward/back I believe his future is down back. And you are right the proof is in the pudding. He has shown time and time again he is a limited forward who is just about invisible inside 50. He is not up to it. Unfortunately for him last year Holland stepped up when Miller was out of the side after the Freo game. And Holland is no shoo in. We need someone to play on the opposition gorillas. And I think that is Millers best show for the future. I dont think we play a traditional CHF (few teams do these days) and I dont think the lead up to the wing old style player cuts it. And his record proves it.

Thanks Redleg. I stand corrected.

The thoughtful posts critical of Warnock, do not do so on the basis that Franklin got three in the last. Franklin got those kicks from midfield turnovers further afield. The comments on Warnock are a reasonable assessment of where he is at now. No one stated he had to be a world beater. Top 8 teams have players who are generally serviceable at AFL. Warnock needs to demonstrate he is up to that standard. He has the job in front of him. Fan's observations on Robbo are closer to the truth than most give credit. The game is evolving and Robbo's work effort when the ball hits the ground needs to tighten up and he needs to cover his opponent up the ground. His defensive work will be tested more this year and he needs to lift his rating. If he is to kick 50+ goals he has to do more than just take the big grab.

Disagree. Playing forward is more difficult than playing back because ultimately you have to create and make the play and take advantage of opportunities that come forward. Playing back your primary role is to negate the ability of your opponent, a forward to receive and take advantage of the ball. The requirement for play creation and making demands at the very least greater skills to be a forward than to be a backman. This is not to classify all forwards skillful and backman as neanderthals. It recognising the basics that is required Miller has show he does not have the smarts or the skill sets to consistently perform as a forward. As a consequence, he limitations suggest if he is going to make it, its down back. Classy, your observation is correct about where Miller's best opportunity lies. His best game last year for mine was when we played Freo at home and he held Pavlich to few possessions (and he had to chase kicks up on the wing) and had few himself. He wont beat a Pavlich every week but he is more value to the team that way than 20 uncontested possessions on a wing which had no noticeable impact on the game.

I thought I saw Vandenburg out there. Godfrey will not be a bona fide mid this year. But Mikey you are right with your other comments. Also Hawthorn are further developed in their pre season with the stated aim of trying to win the NOB (er I mean NAB) Cup. MFC had a 60 minute intraclub prior to this game on Tuesday.

I saw the St Kilda game. I saw the Freo game on TV. I have also seen him regularly over the past four years. He was ordinary against St Kilda. We were pantsed in Freo in the final. Miller played his trademark game of picking up nearly 20 largely uncontested possesions on the lead up on the wing. It was his best game for a while but IMO his influence was not siginficant on the tenor of the game. And thats the rub with Miller and posters are starting to see it. We were never a chance in that match and Miller's efforts did not change it. It only confirmed that unless Miller can play that one style of game to achieve a near serviceable standard he will not be able to provide consistently up forward on different grounds, against different teams in different situations. While I disagree with your assessment, at least you dont flip off his support due to one poor game like others have done. I know what I get from Miller and its not good enough up forward. I hope he proves me wrong. From the intraclub and NAB game I have seen nothing that would alter my opinion that I have held for some years. The disappointing part is that I cut him some slack last year because of his early season OP issues. I understand there are none of those complaints this year. So the excuses are running out for a player now in his 5th year of AFL.

Classy, what does that physicality actually do? Not much by the looks of it. Miller has little or no presence so I am not sure what it brings with 3 possessions Its disappointing that those that were on Millers side prior to that game have got off his support. Nothing I saw of Miller was different to what I saw of Miller over the past two years. Unless he picks up uncontested chest marks on the centre wing, he just does not have the smarts or skills closer to goal. I am not so sure its a Miller vs Dunn matter. Miller is not the CHF many posters have been pining for. While Dunn is better skilled footballer, I would like a more consistent application of his skills throughout the game. Its a big ask in his second year but I think Dunn will make it up forward. Miller wont.

As pointed out by Bob elsewhere, Franklin got his goals from turnovers by Demon players up the ground. As a consequence we got exposed on the overlap. Franklin was silky in finishing but hardly contested in possession.

He needs to work on being serviceable even at one of the ground first and its not forward. Petrie only gets a game because of his size. Very ordinary.

Well spoken Fan.

He aint gonna make a serviceable KPP if his only trick in his repetoire is pick him easy touches on the lead on the wing and then not able to get possessions in or around the corridor. His future is up back if at all.

I am sure there would be Clubs pining for a 30 yo downhill skier who shirks the contested balls and goes missing in crucial games and would gladly give up their first round draft pick to snare such a prize.

Should he have patted him on the back and said "Bad luck of old chap, better luck next time and all that"? What Dawson did was an everyday AFL occurrence. As an AFL coach I would be disappointed if player did not get stuck into an opposition player every time they stuffed up and I would not care what the state of the game was or if the opponent was a member of the Royal family.

Good on you BBP for your honesty. Unfortunately with Yze, he has been doing that for years now and he did it alot last years as well. Alot of posters have observed his form like last night in a number of games. Glad, you saw the light on CJ. He's not there yet but he showed that he can make it.