Deespicable

Yes it's a great topic and one that I hope the Dees are discussing with both Jesse and his management. Clearly if Jesse wants to stay, then we should make every effort to keep him, but if there's a doubt and he has real interest in heading home, then it's worth considering and taking a rational path and plan. Jesse is a huge talent (arguably our most natural talent since Allen Jakovich), yet he is also our biggest off-field problem and whilst footy clubs cover up indiscretions of stars, they can prove costly to team harmony because having one rule for one player and a different set of rules for others can create divisions - just look at Gary Ablett's impact at Geelong this year. The other factor to consider is that Freo, as Kingy mentions, has a pick that would go some way to meet our requirements - pick 6 or 7. personally I reckon we would want their 2019 second round pick as well of we went down that path. With their pick 6 or 7 we would most likely have the potential to draft whichever King brother remains available or if we wanted to make a play for Jack Billings, it would give us the ammunition to get that deal done - I'd want the Saints second rounder for 2019 in return for Billings and our acquired pick 6 or 7 though. Ultimately the club has to weigh it up and insiders would have the biggest idea of Jesse's wish to stay in Melbourne. If I was on the Dees admin I'd be having a serious off-the-record chat with Harmsey about it.

Love the way that Wiseblood and others have defended Jesse and as to it being a bulls..t thread as was suggested by one, the fact that we are all reading it and so many of us are replying shows that it is now the most interesting discussion for fans. It's a bit like Jack Watts of 2013-17 - after so many underacheiving games, it all starts turning on the big name, big pay players - as it rightly should. Please don't make the mistake that I am suggesting Jesse is not capable of being physical - he clearly is unlike Wattsy - but Jesse has been granted the most pivotal spot in the side and finds himself being surpassed by a meat and potatoes hard worker in T-Mac, who has shown that if you fight for every contest, things can happen. For me, in Jesse's case it has nothing to do with his ability - we all know he has a leap, we all know he can run, we all know he can baulk and pivot as well as any big guy in the league. What we don't know (and even the club may not know) is what he gets up to at night - is he partying too hard, is he drinking too much, is he professional - because nowadays only the players that work their butt off both on and off the field are successful in the long-term. I've heard rumours of poor antics and I've heard reports from daughters at nightclubs, so I know he enjoys that scene perhaps more than he should - he's 23 now, he's not a kid. Will he mature like Dusty? Is he capable of maturing like Dusty and walking the fine line between loveable rogue and meathead? Jesse is the most natural footballer we've had since Allen Jakovich - yet interestingly Jakovich made a beeline for Clayton Oliver this weekend and rates him his favourite player of today. Jesse has one of the best natural running tanks I've seen - those of you who watch training reps will know how easy he does it. Yet he also does it as a part-time (maybe fulltime I don't know) smoker. As others have stated Jesse has flaws in his kicking - why haven't these been corrected yet. Why is he one of the few bigname forwards that rarely has a shot from 45-60m out. Why does he hold it like a left-footer. Why does he still stutter and we saw with his shot from 35m yesterday that he was stuttering even more than normal under the pressure of it all. If you peel back the layers of Jesse, I suspect you will find he's struggling with life in the fastlane of AFL football and is a bit of a Nick Kyrgios - happy to act cool and disinterested when beaten rather than show that he's working his butt off to fix things. Now he has an excuse, a foot injury, and his omission may actually help us, not hinder us. Part of that is because Weid has been getting better and better at VFL level and looks almost like a midfielder at training, such is his confidence dishing it off. Whilst I am not totally confident that he will be able to turn it on just yet, I am confident he will be able to match or possibly even surpass what Jesse has done for us in the big games this season. And if he does show signs, then maybe the title of this thread is bang on the money after all - trade Hogan!

Thanks older Demon but we actually do have A-listers now - Gawn, Oliver, Viney and Brayshaw and Salem heading that way. We also already have replacements for those three players. Lewis - Salem has already taken on the role and made him expendable. Vince - Take your pick out of several defenders who play tight and uncomprising footy like Bernie used to until he started losing a bit of pace - Smith is my favourite of the new breed though. Jones - he's already been moved out of our midfield core. I'd like to see him play the Jarrad McVeigh role next year. Agree with you though that it is a big call to move out Hoges, but sometimes as we saw with Wattsy last year, it needs to be done and in Hoges' case it's not just because of what he displays on the field.

Thanks Febel - I thought as much. It's probably too late in season and nowadays they train in the three specific groups, but I would have loved to have seen Hoges and OMac swap possies a few times this season mid games. And with Joel Smith out, Jesse is probably our only player (when in form) that is quick enough and good enough in the air to provide an intercept game-saving mark. I saw him way back when he played U18s for WA and I thought what a talent back there.

Yep, of the 14 uncontracted players left now that Angus and Jetta have signed, I have between eight and 10 missing out for next season with Oscar and Vanders (assuming he survives the season with his ankle still intact) the ones that are imperative. I also feel Jordy and Jeffy have big decisions to make on their futures, which will be determined by their involvement in the run home and hopefully by finals. Even though he's not re-signed, Bernie's post-AFL career appears set with his Pride Real Estate, so it's hard to imagine him staying beyond this season. Assuming we manage to snaffle Gaff, then when you look at our potential Rd 1 side and key back-ups for next year on paper based on who has signed and my two imperatives - it's pretty daunting. Defenders: Hibberd, Jetta, Salem, Hunt, J.Smith, Oscar, Frost - Lever (when fit) Wagner, Petty Mids: Viney, Oliver, Brayshaw, Gaff, Jones, Harmes, Fritsch, Gawn - Tyson Stretch Baker Maynard Forwards: Hogan, T.Mac, Melky, ANB, Spargo, Petracca, Vanders - Hannan, Weid When looking at overall list structure, we obviously will need to decide who is our best option at providing back-up for Gawn, although clearly we won't be able to lure a frontliner because we have the best and any back-up is unlikely to get a game, unless there is injury. As we have already decided on one of our project rucks in Bradtke, then we don't really need to keep more than one of Pedo, King and Filipovic. And if Pedo's had enough of waiting, then a younger fringe tall who can also play forward such as Freo's Matt Taberner might be worth pursuing for a lower order pick. You would also think that at least one of Bugg, Kent, JKH and Balic will be offered a new deal.

Obviously our No.1 target is Gaff and we need that to be as a UFA, as we can't offer a deal that would meet their requirements. For us it would be a coup and if it means they get a first round concession pick for his loss, so be it. It's the same principle as to when the Hawks used to take players from other clubs, which was hardly the intent of the rule - but that's another matter. As to others, I suspect we will have about 8-9 players coming off our list this season - I know some of you think it will be just 4-5, but sorry I have a few more in mind and I suspect the club does to. That will allow us to rookie our two emerging Casey boys - Lockhart and Wags Jnr. But after Gaff, I think our main priority is securing a replacement for Pedo - a back-up tall who can ruck if required. Obviously Weid is progressing in that role, but we need another one. My view has been for two years now that Freo's Mitch Taberener would be handy and realistically he is a third round pick now - which is what we can offer. That would then take the pressure away from us having to retain either Pedo or our two project ruckman and leaves us a bit of time to see how Bradtke develops. It would be lovely to get a player such as Dahlhaus but we have virtually nothing to offer the Dogs in return.

You are aware that Angus, Christian P, VDB, ANB, Salem, Harmes and Stretch are all midfielders that we chose in recent years on top of Michie and Tyson and Baker. What has happened is that because we now have such midfield depth, that several players have had to be moved out of the middle to try and get a game. Salem has been sent down back, ANB has had to make it as a running forward and Vanders likewise, while Tyson has had to play wing in AFL this season. Please do more research before strong statements!

Taylor has overall done a good job and his meal ticket resides with upgrading Clayton Oliver and making him a priority even to the extent of encouraging the pre-draft trade to get pick 3 prior to Essendon - otherwise we may have had to take Parish (another Jimmy Toumpas type). But as has been pointed out, the trades are not really his decision, he would no doubt be consulted heavily over them, but the coach has a bigger say in those choices and obviously with Melky and Hibberd it was on the basis that Goody wanted them big time. But my main point is that while Tubby Taylor has done a fine job with choosing mids (Vanders, ANB and now Spargo have been inspired picks), he has so far has been bereft of talent when judging bigs. Some will argue he chose Oscar Mc, but he was also under pressure to go with him and showed his hand on how keen he was when he went ANB before him. Plenty of others came about because of connections - Stretch, Joel Smith, Fritsch, Tim Smith, Keilty - not because of his astute judgment and my understanding is that Goody loved Hannan's game in the VFL GF two years ago and told him to make him a priority. But so far the bigs have been a disaster and even allowing for the late development that comes with taller units, most will stay that way. I have noticed a major improvement in Weid's agility this year and at times he now moves like a midfielder, so I have not given up on him yet, although clearly we missed an opportunity to take Charlie Curnow that year and misread the tea leaves on the way key forwards were going.

For some reason it didn't like my word documents, but when I copied it into pages and tried again it worked. It did keep the attempted downloads on bottom though of topic though and I couldn't remove it - see actual topic called Deespicable's 2018 player rankings

I am trying to start a new topic. When I try to load my 2018 rankings it only allows the first page and I have 11 pages of the stuff. It brings them in as a file, rather than just allowing me to place words - albeit lengthy- on the topic. Any suggestions as to way around it so that I can just copy and paste the one lot of 6000 words?

I hear where you are coming from and yes I did notice his lack of chase time and time again and yes in our earlier lossess against Cats and Hawks, he was exposed over the back, as he would have been against the Tigers if he had played. But Jordy's precision is a big reason why we have won the past six games and his distribution, except for his last-quarter clanger was exceptional again today. Take a breath and figure out the other reasons behind the loss today - pace beat precision and what's worse we lost in the hardball area for just the second time this year - both losses. Goody will reconfigure and fix those areas and I reckon he will now know that he must have Hunt playing against the Pies and Tigers, even if he does turn it over.

A great topic Big Carl and you did a superb job. Obviously all of us will differ in our view - but I'm in the lucky boat of being the right vintage for this one, as you may be as well. Almost all of your line-up I agree with, although I did struggle with a few and have made three changes and swapped a couple on the bench. I'm sorry but I can't have Graeme Yeats in this side. He was handy, but occasionally was dropped as a defender, although his superb 1987 year as a wingman helped turn things around for the whole side. But he can't get the wing role for obvious reasons. The tricky thing is deciding whether his spot goes to a tall defender or a small one. Ultimately I suspect Jake Lever or Michael Hibberd will get the spot, but the only good, tall intercepters we have had are Jared Rivers and Clint Biz and whilst they had their days, they weren't quite dominant enough. I think any side of this 50-year era has to consider Laurie Fowler. Dumped by the Tigers, he was as tough as nails, won a few B&Fs and was a long clearing kick. He'd also back into anything - Neil Balme included. He's the only one I feel comfortable enough to propose for the other back pocket besides Alan Johnson, who is a monty. The full-back spot is also a troubling one. Danny Hughes was tough and a great kick, but he was mighty slow - that's why Northey decided against playing him on Dunstall in the 1988 GF. He did have a few cracking QB games on Brian Taylor though. Peter Giles was tight-checking and good enough for Lethal to decide to wipe him out. But I like Sean Wight most of all - he kept Ablett goalless one game and his attack on the footy was inspiring. While our depth came on in 1987 and hence everyone played a part in that revival, it was Wight that turned us into a counter-attacking side - a bit like Alex Rance today. Frawley of 2011 also was worthy but his other years were solid, not amazing. I eventually agreed with your choice of half-backs. Brett Lovett was slow, but did all the fundamentals right and enjoyed playing on Peter Daicos. I think he was probably a tad smarter than Tony Sullivan, though cut from the same cloth. The running half-back spot is a toss up between Steven Febey and Stephen Stretch, although Jayden may go past both of them in time. Stretcher was a better kick and had a bigger leap, but Febel could run all day and kept presenting and with brother Matt and Nathan Brown, gave us the run that propelled Daniher's side to finals. Both lacked the mongrel touch though. Grinter, however, was considered by other fans to be more mongrel than footballer but he was a pretty handy kick on the run plus he could take a hanger, so you could probably forgive him the fact that his hip invariably wound up making contact with opponents. Adem Yze also had a sensational year in 2000 off a back flank but played way more as a forward and a bench spot in this side beckons for him. Gary Hardeman is somewhat lucky. The taxi driver was a wonky kick and probably wouldn't even get drafted today because of it, but he was a good mark, played tight, was pretty quick and also was reliable enough when playing for the Vics. He fared well in the Brownlow, but I reckon even he would say that he wasn't as good as a runner-up and third place suggest. But who has been a better CHB on a regular basis? Wight was good there in 87 but played most of his footy at FB, Lyon was exceptional when switched there and Neiter had that one game on Carey in 1994 that everyone thinks makes him a CHB guru, but he was way better as a forward. Spalding wasn't quite quick or mobile enough, hence got sent to CHF. The centreline is hard to argue with. Alves and Wells were premiership players, albeit it after the skippers left to finish their careers in glory. Flower was a God. But that leaves us with a problem because Willo in 1982 was amazing and he was very good for a few more years, often in the uncanny small forward role, where his big baulking hip-swivel was lethal. But I'll take Willo on the bench. The other hard luck story is Stephen Tingay, who was hard and gave his all, but just missed both our grand finals - too young for 88, too old and injured for 00. I've named him emergency to keep the hard luck theme going. The choice of CHF is a lot harder than most young people realise. Officer Greg Parke was amazing in the early 70s, he had sticky fingers but his errant boot often let us down. I accept Schwarter at CHF as he was the most amazing player I have seen though until his knee and he did fight back bravely to win our B&F. I can just cop Parke's omission - but I think if enough people of my age were online, then I reckon he probably would get the nod. I've gone with Gerard Healy on a flank. He often played that spot for the Vics after his 77-odd goal season as a forward pocket next to Whacko Jacko in 1982. In 84 and 85 he was virtually unstoppable as a ruck rover before heading to to the Swans. Seven years and 130 games for us - yep that's enough I reckon to make this side, even though his first couple of seasons on the wing were very much developmental years. In fact I'd say he's the third best footballer we've seen in this 50-year period behind Robbie and Garry Lyon. Neiter gets the full forward spot hands down. If only Hoges had a thumping kick like David did! And the whiz was Mr Magic for us - also for seven seasons - and his 2000 year was phenomenal. You could make a case for Aaron Davey as a small forward and even though he never kicked a swag of goals, he did change the game with his forward pressure. That's why he's in my 22. Then I get controversial for you Big Carl. I'm sorry but I disagree on Allen Jakovich's inclusion. Sure he was amazing once he got his chance in 1991, but four seasons and 47 games isn't a team of the century stat. I'd be happy for him to be in our most mercurial or talented team of the century, but I don't think that's what this topic is about. It's for that reason that Russell Robertson gets my vote - keep your feet, Robbo. Sure Robbo benefitted from having Neiter next to him, but he did win four club goalkicking awards and played more than 200 games - not bad for a guy spotted taking a nice hanger. Brad Green also goes close, but he spent a lot of time as a winger. The ruck's a given, the ruck-rover is also easy as Todd Viney was bigger than Jack and just as tough, although his kicking let him down. I loved the Obstetrician as a player and Glenn Lovett was clever as well, but neither can match Nathan Jones for workrate or heart nor, as some of you have seen, the kicking skills. Henry Coles and Sugar Healy had their moments and Junior Mac was a great leader ... but Jonesy is a three-time B&F winner for good reason. The last spot on the bench goes to a defender for balance and Grinter just pips Stretch and Hughes, but really I'm splitting hairs now. So here it is In bold are players that you picked that I agreed with Big Carl, although Healy and Viney have swapped positions - Todd was never as good as a forward. B: A Johnson S.Wight D Hughes L.Fowler G Yeats HB: B Lovett G Hardeman S Febey C: S Alves G Wells R Flower HF: G Lyon D Schwarz Gerard Healy F: J Farmer D Neitz R Robertson A Jakovich R: J Stynes T Viney N Jones Int: B Wilson R Grinter, A. Davey A Yze J McDonald, Emerg: S.Tingay G.Parke, S.Stretch A Obst, E Spalding OK, a few other comments on those that other have mentioned but miss out IMO. Gary Baker - A lovely mark, but was usually beaten in hit-outs because he was quite short compared to other tapmen. He also wasn't mobile enough to hold down CHF or CHB - something that Jimmy did a bit of early in his career. We've had a long list of handy ruckmen - Big Carl, Peter Moore, Jeff White and Strawb O'Dwyer, but only one so far can match Jimmy and big Maxy needs to do it for quite a few more years yet to challenge him. Ray Biffin - The problem is he can't get a gig as FF because we have Neiter in that spot and even then, his kicking for goal was sporadic at best. As a FB, he played some handy games, but he wasn't fit enough to be a flying intercept mark or rebounder and hence misses out. Stephen Smith - Ultimately a bit of a tease like Jack Watts. Under Skilton we thought we had a superstar in the making at CHF, but then he was never quite able to nail down the spot, eventually being sent to defence where he was reliable in a very ordinary side. His best game was on Leigh Matthews and we all should know where that ends - just ask Gilesy or Allen Jarrot.

Love the way Lever plays and given we were smashed in the air this year, then it's nice to know we have a guy who has a presence in this area with his leap. Apart from T-Mac going forward, I hope they prepare O.Mac pre-season to play as a forward/back-up ruckmen as well. Unless Frost or Lever is injured, then O-Mac will be required to head forward on occasions and last year for some stupid reason, players like Weid and O-Mac and T-Mac did no work on the back-up ruck role pre-season. It was only when Gawn went down that we started work in that area.

Sounds pretty fair all round to me. Lever's a gun. If the Swans feel hard done by then they get back pick 34 (35).

We already have two first rounder available - this year's 10 and next year's - and if we are worried about the quality of next year's draft being too good then we should ask for their 2018 second rounder back in return. We also are yet to play the "trade player" card with them, although I suspect Ben Ken has been offered up behind scenes. But given they are also losing Charlie Cameron's run, then maybe we have to consider giving up another SA player - Billy Stretch comes to mind, even though I like the way he goes about his footy - sometimes to get something you really want, you have to give up something you like.

A lot of people have talked him up and I hope we get him - but if you saw him on TV three weeks ago against Willy you would have to say "No way". The worst game by a potential draft pick that I have seen - conditions not good though. The fact that, against the same side, he came back and played well last weekend, indicates he is still worth claiming - but I am thinking as a rookie, but I may be dreaming on this one as it is always hard to rate VFL players and the club will have an idea of who is in to him pre-draft.

Why would you say that? Could you explain your Collingwood assertion? To me, the Pies want him because they desperately want anyone and think they are the biggest and best club in the AFL and they don't really plan out their long-term structure. The reason why the Pies shouldn't want him is that Jeremy Howe already plays the intercept sweeper role for them and unless they are planning to trade Howey after a year where he might be AA, then it doesn't make as much sense to have two playing that role - as we saw early in the year with Jetta and Wags, you don't want four players going up and no-one down. By contrast we don't have a tall defensive marking sweeper, so Lever would be an ideal pick up for us and will complement an area where we are deficient - T-Mac wasn't bad at it before his reallocation to the front six.

Tubby Taylor will find it difficult to avoid a few media interviews and a few new major offers after his selections have consistently come up trumps - not bad for a bloke who left the Pies in embarrassing circumstances. If someone, with inside knowledge, on who was behind the choice of Hannan can reveal details please. Obviously the VFL GF was the major rider on this as he cut us up, but I doubt Tubby would have been there as he would have been off looking at other players in GFs around the country and the Etihad game was an easy one for so many of our other key staff to get too. But I do know Tubby was right behind the choices of both Oliver and Vandenburg and had the backing of Paul Roos to go for big-bodied midfielders.

Declan was quite impressive early in the VFL season with his stints in the ruck, up forward and primarily as a tall defender. But he had a relatively poor finals campaign for Casey, which has meant he is no longer talked about as someone who will attract the sort of interest that would make see him taken in the normal draft - and the rookie draft now seems a more likely spot for him and us. It may come down to a choice between him and Jack Hannath - who we were keen on four years ago before Freo nabbed him before us. I'm hoping we go for Declan because it will also send a signal to Casey players that if you play well, then it is a potential road into Melbourne. I'd also be happy if we took Footscray's Ben Long who is a pacey, medium forward from Darwin - yes indigenous - Rioli's cousin. I always think we should be supporting NT players now that we have a relationship with the state and he is obviously one that we missed and the Dogs now have the jump on him. But I imagine if he's still around when it comes to pick 69 then he'd be perfect outside pace that we need to punt on - Dogs may take him at pick 50 though.

Two things about Hibberd. The first is that the DL camp who have highlighted him as a good pick-up have underestimated (ignored) one of his main ingredients that he adds to our list - a left foot defender. At present we have Salem and Wagner as our only two left-footers back there while sides like Hawthorn and Sydney have quite a few. Wagner is handy but not a thumping kick like Hibberd, while most of us would like to see Salem tried in the midfield. So Hibberd's acquisition is huge and those that watched him pre-2016 know that he's as tough as nails and will be part of our back seven (six plus one interchange). The other is I don't quite get why we want to try and trade out of next year's draft already. Perhaps some have got cocky after our improved showing with a young list, but there's no guarantee that we won't slide a little next year as we wait for our young squad to fully mature. And when we grabbed an extra pick last year (for Weideman), we were told by the club that the 2016 draft was shaping as being a little thin. And there's also no obvious other trades on the horizon this year, but next year we may want to use our second round pick - just as we do this year. One can only presume that our maestro Jason Taylor now is keen on a couple of players who may fall in that 20-30 bracket. But there are ways of getting back to the second round, even if we have to trade our current pick for Hibberd. For example - Dunn to Brisbane should net us the Lions third round pick 49. We then can go after the Gold Coast's pick 25 or 29 on the basis that trading them our two third rounders (picks 46 and 49) will actually earn them more points to be used for either Jack Bowes or Brad Scheer.

Agree - all clubs play the real estate game initially. Our pick 27 probably is a little unders, so we will have to decide whether we give up our third round as well, maybe for a switch with their pick four. We should pick up something for Grimes (round 4 pick) and maybe Dunn (round 4 pick) and I am waiting to see what Goody decides on Trengove (potential round 3 pick) and Neal-Bullen (Port Adelaide second round pick). Why have so many jumped off the Salem bandwagon?

Give him a break - the guy has a flawed technique and he was taught by Windows in the U18s. If he persists with doing it, he'll end up being a regular concussion head - so it will be coached out of him - eventually.

I was thinking about Oliver all night and the video. The ball drop when he bounced it on one of his charging runs reminded me of another video that I'm sure we've all seen - anyone else see Ron Barassi in him? I'd give him No.31. There's also a little bit of John Fidge as a junior in him. I reckon the up side to him is enormous and just shows that we have a great recruiting guy in Tubby Taylor guiding the ship. The Parish video shows him to be a cocky kid - a little full of himself after two great seasons in juniors. On top of the fact that Parish is small, it just shows that we are now aware of the modern day player requirements and tackling is now a core part. I can guarantee you that if we went back to 2012 and Taylor was in charge, he would have fought like hell to retain Wines. But at least now it doesn't matter - he has drafted us a tough midfield with not one fancy whous (sorry can't spell it), although all our tough boys have their own tricks. The only job now is for our footy manager is to keep them all at the club and make sure Hoges and Weids don't get too big-headed.

A rumor on Bomberblitz was stated before. Where there is a bit of truth I suspect is that we are trying to get another quality midfielder and a tall forward. Can't blame the club for trying and shows we are proactive.

I would have thought Pedo was one of several players on the cusp of being delisted. He's 29 next season and has shown that he has a clean pair of hands (unlike Dawes) and is a thumping kick (unlike Hoges) and works hard. But he also is regarded as being a tad slow which means he can't play the lead-up role anywhere near as well as the two players mentioned. On top of that he is out of contract which means that he is one the club will be discussing - it's a lot easier to cut him than say Dawes who has a year to run on a big contract. To me, it will probably ultimately get down to Fitzy or Pedo - with both potentially redrafted as rookies.