TANGLED UP IN BLUES

[Harrisonrules 273]

When I sat down to pick my tips this week I naturally came to Melb v Blues and wondered if I now dare to sacrifice one selection to loyalty win lose or draw. Was I right to pick the cats last week at the cattery?, loyalty or common sense. I chose the cats. But where does one draw the line in the sand. We should have beaten the Kangas and the eagles. We lost it against the pies and doggies, they didn't win it. Our form is unpredictable. Backs and mids are relatively constant. We know what we will generally get from them. Against the cats I was happy enough with our general play, but the forward line is still a long way off. The cats just know how to kick goals, we don't. We are getting there but very slowly. We are still a long way from having a sound forward line with a bit of tweeking with the rise and fall of form. The blues should be favourites this week end. We can win but it depends on which team comes, the good forwards or the bad forwards.

[jumbo returns 6,741]

When I sat down to pick my tips this week I naturally came to Melb v Blues and wondered if I now dare to sacrifice one selection to loyalty win lose or draw. Was I right to pick the cats last week at the cattery?, loyalty or common sense. I chose the cats. But where does one draw the line in the sand. We should have beaten the Kangas and the eagles. We lost it against the pies and doggies, they didn't win it. Our form is unpredictable. Backs and mids are relatively constant. We know what we will generally get from them. Against the cats I was happy enough with our general play, but the forward line is still a long way off. The cats just know how to kick goals, we don't. We are getting there but very slowly. We are still a long way from having a sound forward line with a bit of tweeking with the rise and fall of form. The blues should be favourites this week end. We can win but it depends on which team comes, the good forwards or the bad forwards.

Exactly - then what happens? Will our backline need tweaking when our forward line catches up? I hope they both come together over the next 3-4 years.

[satyricon 267]

When I sat down to pick my tips this week I naturally came to Melb v Blues and wondered if I now dare to sacrifice one selection to loyalty win lose or draw. Was I right to pick the cats last week at the cattery?, loyalty or common sense. I chose the cats. But where does one draw the line in the sand. We should have beaten the Kangas and the eagles. We lost it against the pies and doggies, they didn't win it. Our form is unpredictable. Backs and mids are relatively constant. We know what we will generally get from them. Against the cats I was happy enough with our general play, but the forward line is still a long way off. The cats just know how to kick goals, we don't. We are getting there but very slowly. We are still a long way from having a sound forward line with a bit of tweeking with the rise and fall of form. The blues should be favourites this week end. We can win but it depends on which team comes, the good forwards or the bad forwards.

It is not a case of good or bad forwards, I have actually been feeling sorry for Josh Mahoney, it seems every week he gets a new setup of six or seven to try and structure some sort of forward set up...I know they are all professional footballers and should be able to adapt, but it is the conistency of playing together and not running or leading into each others way..we have had Bate in and out, Petterd going down, Jurrah not starting, Miller in and out Hughes in then out, now the indigenous boys......the defence has had one thing, stability in major personnel with maybe one change now and then....and the midfield has been pretty consistent even if its collective form has been all over the place...hopefully by the end of the season we will have a glimpse of what we can look forward to in 2011 in the forward line.......I am actually enjoying going to the footy, to see what we produce....and who takes the opportunities

Edited June 3, 2010 by satyricon

[DeeSpencer 26,080]

Our forward line has more talent in line for it than any other part of the ground, but it is inexperienced and suffers from injuries and being neglected for other parts of the ground (I see Bailey as a firm believer of premierships and built from defence and with a star midfield).

Tall forwards we have Watts

Mid sized forwards we have an amazing collection in Bate, Petterd, Jurrah, Sylvia, Green

Smalls we have Wona, Bennell, Jetta, Maric, Bail

The current forward line requires very quick ball movement, which means the midfield and backline getting on top. We never had a chance to do that against the cats.

Our performances this year have not really had a huge deal to do with how well the forwards play. The good games have been when our pressure is up, we win in the midfield and our defence gets on top. Petterd had a day out to lift the side nearly to a win against the pies and Bate was very good against Brisbane and the dogs I believe. But our most disappointing games this year (Roos and WC) were when the pressure and creativity amongst the midfielders was down.

[Akum 2,660]

It is not a case of good or bad forwards, I have actually been feeling sorry for Josh Mahoney, it seems every week he gets a new setup of six or seven to try and structure some sort of forward set up...I know they are all professional footballers and should be able to adapt, but it is the conistency of playing together and not running or leading into each others way..we have had Bate in and out, Petterd going down, Jurrah not starting, Miller in and out Hughes in then out, now the indigenous boys......the defence has had one thing, stability in major personnel with maybe one change now and then....and the midfield has been pretty consistent even if its collective form has been all over the place...hopefully by the end of the season we will have a glimpse of what we can look forward to in 2011 in the forward line.......I am actually enjoying going to the footy, to see what we produce....and who takes the opportunities

Good thread, excellent post. It's essential to get some stability in the forward line.

IMO we have trouble with disciplined teams who play a defensive zone of some sort - Hawthorn, Weagles, North. Against more attacking teams, we can match it with the best of them. Even Geelong, although they're an attacking team, attack by getting plenty of bodies back on their half-back line, where they win the ball and move it forwards from there. We haven't yet learned to counter the situation where a player with the ball between the defensive 50 and the middle of the ground looks up & sees what must seem like a wall of opposition jumpers about 40-50 metres in front of them, with just a few Demons among them. This is a very difficult situation to be confronted by without a strategy for dealing with it, and it's at these times that we look really ordinary.

Teams like the Dogs and the Dons manage to get through the zone by lightning quick precision ball movement. The Pies manage to get around it by hugging the flanks, and by the next link in the chain knowing where to run even before the link before them has the ball. When the other team succeeds in countering the zone, the "zone" team invariably gets absolutely smashed. We need to work out how to beat the zone, or we'll continue to lose to lesser teams like North & WC.

I frankly don't know enough about Carlton to know whether they're a "zone" team or not, but I don't think so. But they do have a very disciplined midfield set-up, with many lesser players blocking for the likes of Judd & Murphy, and if we get smashed in the midfield, it could be nasty. On the other hand, these days we usually do really well when teams - even highly skilled teams like PIes & Dogs - try to beat us with skill.

[Dinosaur Rover 197]

Our forward line has more talent in line for it than any other part of the ground, but it is inexperienced and suffers from injuries and being neglected for other parts of the ground (I see Bailey as a firm believer of premierships and built from defence and with a star midfield).

Tall forwards we have Watts

Mid sized forwards we have an amazing collection in Bate, Petterd, Jurrah, Sylvia, Green

Smalls we have Wona, Bennell, Jetta, Maric, Bail

The current forward line requires very quick ball movement, which means the midfield and backline getting on top. We never had a chance to do that against the cats.

Our performances this year have not really had a huge deal to do with how well the forwards play. The good games have been when our pressure is up, we win in the midfield and our defence gets on top. Petterd had a day out to lift the side nearly to a win against the pies and Bate was very good against Brisbane and the dogs I believe. But our most disappointing games this year (Roos and WC) were when the pressure and creativity amongst the midfielders was down.

Well said.

[Demonland 73,140]

TANGLED UP IN BLUES by JVM

This week Melbourne and Carlton, two of the oldest clubs in the competition, meet for only the third time since they played in that infamous 2007 end-of season twilight game whose result was so meaningful for all of the wrong reasons.

It was also the Demons' last win over the Blues and while it ended a long saga of Carlton tank battles, it was only the beginning for Melbourne.

Both clubs have emerged from this recent era full of hope for the future. In Carlton's case, it seems to have retained a position whereby it remains at least two years ahead of its rival this Saturday, aided by a seemingly bottomless war chest and an ability to defy what was once conventional salary cap logic thanks to promotions allowances and the like. The end result is that it has one of the best midfield combinations that money and what they call good "list management" can buy. Although the rest of its list can only be described as adequate, the result at a point two and a half seasons down the track is a team that has already tasted the experience of the finals and seems poised to feature in them again in 2010.

By way of contrast, Melbourne has a midfield of youth and inexperience with seemingly limitless but mainly untapped talent. Whereas the club traded away one of its former shining midfield lights in Brock McLean to the Blues in an off season trade, it has introduced a bevy of quality young midfielders into its engine room during the current season and one or two others immediately before. And there are more to come. The Demons have also introduced lots of youth into other segments of their make up but have resisted the urge to wave a big cheque book or max out on their credit cards to top up its talent pool.

As a result, Saturday's clash between these two traditional clubs looks like a potential mis-match that is likely to go the way of their two most recent meetings - an easy win to Carlton. 

But looks can sometimes be deceiving and I believe this game is a winnable one for Melbourne provided it comes out with the mindset it displayed in a number of its earlier matches including one or two that were lost but which demonstrated what can be achieved if a youthful team comes out into a game fully focussed on doing what's necessary to win a game.

There's no doubt that this game means a great deal to the Melbourne hierarchy and the players. 

Since the end of the Daniher era and that crazy twilight game at Priority Pick Park (the name then given to the G) that, for both clubs, saw the curtain go down for the 2007 season, the Blues seem to have thwarted a good few of the Demons' plans. They beat them to the punch over the recruitment of Chris Judd and Robert Warnock and they snaffled away two players in Chris Johnson and former captaincy aspirant Brock McLean in off season movements. While most at the club are feeling mighty chuffed about the prospective 200 game player it snared with the draft pick traded for McLean, the clubs remain tangled up in an added air of tension as a result of this scenario.

THE GAME Carlton v Melbourne at the MCG - Saturday 5 June 2010 at 2.10pm

HEAD TO HEAD

Overall Carlton 111 wins Melbourne 88 wins 2 draws

At MCG Carlton 44 wins Melbourne 48 wins

Since 2000 Carlton 6 wins Melbourne 8 wins

The Coaches Ratten 2 wins Bailey 0 wins

MEDIA

TV - Channel 10 at 3:00 pm (delayed telecast)

Radio - ABC774 Triple M 3AW  

THE BETTING Carlton to win $1.36 Melbourne to win $3.10

THE LAST TIME THEY MET - Carlton 24.9.153 defeated Melbourne 15.6.96 at Etihad Stadium, Round 21, 2009

It was a bizarre high scoring game in which both sides kicked accurately but neither exerted much pressure on the other. Judd starred and Fevola kicked seven goals while Mark Jamar and Russell Robertson each booted five. James McDonald was best for the Demons.

THE TEAMS

CARLTON

Backs Aaron Joseph Michael Jamison Bret Thornton

Half backs Steven Browne Andrew Walker Jordan Russell

Centreline Kade Simpson Chris Judd Heath Scotland

Half forwards Ryan Houlihan Jarrad Waite Andrew Carrazzo

Followers Eddie Betts Setanta O’hAilpin Matthew Kreuzer

Rucks Sam Jacobs Bryce Gibbs Marc Murphy

Interchange Joe Anderson Jeff Garlett Richard Hadley Mitch Robinson

Emergencies Shaun Grigg Lachie Henderson Brock McLean

In Ryan Houlihan Jarrad Waite

Out Lachie Henderson Henderson Brock McLean

MELBOURNE

Backs Clint Bartram James Frawley Cameron Bruce

Half backs Jack Grimes Jared Rivers James McDonald

Centreline Brad Green Jack Trengove Aaron Davey

Half forwards Nathan Jones Brad Miller Tom Scully

Forwards Jamie Bennell Jack Watts Cale Morton

Followers Mark Jamar Brent Moloney Neville Jetta

Interchange Matthew Bate Colin Garland Jordan Gysberts Colin Sylvia

Emergencies Kyle Cheney Jordie McKenzie Michael Newton

In Matthew Bate Tom Scully Jack Trengove

Out Joel MacDonald Matthew Warnock Austin Wonaeamirri

MISSING

A great deal of pre match publicity has focussed on the feeling of the Melbourne players about Brock McLean and his defection from the club at the end of last season. One newspaper report went to great lengths mentioning Brent Moloney's stinging rebuke of McLean at last year's club champion count and also relating that Demon coach Dean Bailey had been looking forward to this contest for some time; that "Melbourne vs McLean/Carlton would not be just another game". He was alluding to the fact that it was going to "be an important clash for us when we play Carlton."

Well the Blues have spoiled the party. They've gone and dropped their midfield recruit to the VFL, a move which has taken a great deal of potential niggle out of the game. It should be stressed however, that there is absolutely no truth in the rumour that the Blues are sending him to Casey Fields as a forward scout for their VFL affiliate, the Northern Bullants. It's not true and it won't happen. Brocky doesn't like the long, hard, demanding drive out into the sticks anyway!

Still, the absence of McLean does not detract from the game's importance. At 4/6 and going into the mid point of a season, "important" would seem to be an understatement.

If you took a cue from the challenge of the midfield alone, the edge that Carlton has in this game would indeed seem compelling, particularly if one recalls that the Blues have recently beaten both of the 2009 grand finallists and Geelong and St Kilda are blessed with midfield strength.

Who is going to stop Judd? Murphy anyone? Gibbs? And if you stop them does it mean that the likes of Carazzo and Scotland will be freed up to cause some damage?

The Demons face some interesting challenges this weekend. How will young midfielders Scully and Trengove fare after their week off last week. Can the Demon forward line kick a big enough score to win? Will they be able to stop Setanta and his little helpers?

All of these questions will be answered shortly and I fear that Carlton's experience will help it across the line but only just.

Carlton by 5 points.

[Harrisonrules 273]

I think there is both a push and pull factor. We play really well when the backs and mids get on top and they push the ball forward well and bring out the best in the forwards. At this stage we haven't developed the necessary talent on the forward line to create the pull from the forward line to lift the mid and back lines when they are struggling. If the forwards are good enough to capitalise on any half a chance then they create scoreboard pressure. The opposition backs get scared when the ball comes down. The game is circular. Our circle is still lopsided to the back half

[rpfc 28,770]

The game starts and ends in the middle.

[dee-luded 2,959]

When I sat down to pick my tips this week I naturally came to Melb v Blues and wondered if I now dare to sacrifice one selection to loyalty win lose or draw. Was I right to pick the cats last week at the cattery?, loyalty or common sense. I chose the cats. But where does one draw the line in the sand. We should have beaten the Kangas and the eagles. We lost it against the pies and doggies, they didn't win it. Our form is unpredictable. Backs and mids are relatively constant. We know what we will generally get from them. Against the cats I was happy enough with our general play, but the forward line is still a long way off. The cats just know how to kick goals, we don't. We are getting there but very slowly. We are still a long way from having a sound forward line with a bit of tweeking with the rise and fall of form. The blues should be favourites this week end. We can win but it depends on which team comes, the good forwards or the bad forwards.

You build a team from the defence, then the mids, then forward.