I can't believe this rubbish-holland better at ff than neitz? have u ever watched holland play there when neitz is injured? he has NO hope EVER of outmarking a no. 1 defender. Do you remember that final against the bombers a few yrs ago when neitz had a broken leg and holland played FF? No marks and No goals is my recollection of holland's stats. He is only any good when neitz has the no. 1 defender. Get off the captain he may be not playing too well but if anyone in the team is entitled to its him its his last hurrah and he should't be put under the microscope every game like this

I was talking with a former Demon B&F winner last night about Neitz.

He feels the club made a serious error in keeping him on the list - we are very much like a generous superannuation benevolent fund - as we were with Garry Lyon.

He talked about how when the Hawks gave Michael Tuck the tap on the shoulder - he could have possibly gone around another year (finished top 10 in their B&F) but the tough decision was made.

Best thing would be for him to retire so we can find out which players may have a future - Neitz doesn't.

I find the cheap criticisms and insulting slurs about a player of the stature and service of David Neitz rather pathetic from posters who are allegedly supporters.

It says more about the posters than the target.

No one is denying #9 has been a great servant of the club.

His time is long past - either we are rebuilding or we are being overly sentimental.

No room for sentiment in the modern game.

A player with a bit more height down back might have punched a couple of those high balls that were crumbed goals right through for a point rather than allow them to stay in play.

I believe White was down there for both of those. Poor defense let those become goals. If anything, Carroll being the smaller player should have been better at ground level.

No one is denying #9 has been a great servant of the club.

His time is long past - either we are rebuilding or we are being overly sentimental.

No room for sentiment in the modern game.

There is no sentiment but I found your reference to Neitz as "old rubber chest" disrespectful and in poor taste.

But dont let me stop you sinking the boots in when a bloke is down. Cheap shots like that are unnecessary.

There is no sentiment but I found your reference to Neitz as "old rubber chest" disrespectful and in poor taste.

But dont let me stop you sinking the boots in when a bloke is down. Cheap shots like that are unnecessary.

I have been calling him that for at least 3 years - just ask our old friend Rollo 65.

His time has past - he should do the right thing by the club and retire - after Round 6.

I have been calling him that for at least 3 years - just ask our old friend Rollo 65.

His time has past - he should do the right thing by the club and retire - after Round 6.

people like you make me ashamed to be associated with this forum

There is no sentiment but I found your reference to Neitz as "old rubber chest" disrespectful and in poor taste.

But dont let me stop you sinking the boots in when a bloke is down. Cheap shots like that are unnecessary.

Mate, you need to objectively view the posts. You have way too much unwarranted, unneccessary, unfounded, personal and emotional attachment to the players. Mate, you are simply a poster like the rest of us. You need to get a grip, becuase times are a changing and the Great Number 9, is a mere shadow of his former self. The term rubber chest is a very fair observation and a very soft approach in my opinion.

So hopefully my objective analysis will assist you in your over opinionated rationale.

people like you make me ashamed to be associated with this forum

Why's that?

Because I am keen to see the club move forward?

Because I don't want to have players remain on the list past their use by date and stop the development of the next generation of players that may bring us a flag?

Speaking with a former "Bluey" winner last night only confirmed what I have been thinking - our sentimentality has been a big part of our failure to make our club the great beast it once was.

If that makes you ashamed then I am sorry - for you and our once great club.

Why's that?

Because I am keen to see the club move forward?

Because I don't want to have players remain on the list past their use by date and stop the development of the next generation of players that may bring us a flag?

Speaking with a former "Bluey" winner last night only confirmed what I have been thinking - our sentimentality has been a big part of our failure to make our club the great beast it once was.

If that makes you ashamed then I am sorry - for you and our once great club.

haha u make me laugh. U are so quick to write off a player based on 3 games only? Not to mention we are talking about an older player who has been eased into the season. I guess you believe any player who plays 3 average games in a row should be sacked. Well I doubt that leaves much of a team left. Oh and why stop with footy I suppose you want Ponting sacked too for playing a few bad games in a row regardless of the fact he is one of the best battsmen and captain?

stopping development of the next generation eh? Well we're not going to be contenders in the short term so we may as well do away with junior robbo white yze wheels wheata etc none of them are likely to be part of our next generation. lets write off any champion showing any sign of floundering. lets be totally unforgiving to anyone who drops a mark (oh except robertson who dropped a basic mark...oh and lets forgive all those turnovers out of defence the last 3 weeks they dont matter either. oh and white costing us a goal by not rushing the ball thru. oh and hawkins' easy goals.....)

haha u make me laugh. U are so quick to write off a player based on 3 games only? Not to mention we are talking about an older player who has been eased into the season. I guess you believe any player who plays 3 average games in a row should be sacked. Well I doubt that leaves much of a team left. Oh and why stop with footy I suppose you want Ponting sacked too for playing a few bad games in a row regardless of the fact he is one of the best battsmen and captain?

stopping development of the next generation eh? Well we're not going to be contenders in the short term so we may as well do away with junior robbo white yze wheels wheata etc none of them are likely to be part of our next generation. lets write off any champion showing any sign of floundering. lets be totally unforgiving to anyone who drops a mark (oh except robertson who dropped a basic mark...oh and lets forgive all those turnovers out of defence the last 3 weeks they dont matter either. oh and white costing us a goal by not rushing the ball thru. oh and hawkins' easy goals.....)

Not just 3 ordinary games - try three ordinary seasons. His time has past.

I would also have been happy to trade Robbo when we had the chance - sick of him flapping around on the turf like a fish out of water. Yze screwed us as well.

JMac may go on for another few years. Wheels - one of my faves but injury prone.

I have little interest in cricket.

68 goals in '06, what a shocking return hey! Even in '05 he averaged 2 a game when our forward line looked potent and multi-pronged. Sure last year wasn't great but if you think injury had no part to play, then you're a fool.

His past three completed seasons have yielded one very good year, one above average year and one injury ravaged year. There is little to suggest that a fully fit Neitz wouldn't be a prominent member in our forward line, and i think this is why he has been playing a little further upfield of late, to get a bit of run into his legs.

Not just 3 ordinary games - try three ordinary seasons. His time has past.

I would also have been happy to trade Robbo when we had the chance - sick of him flapping around on the turf like a fish out of water. Yze screwed us as well.

JMac may go on for another few years. Wheels - one of my faves but injury prone.

I have little interest in cricket.

See you don't even have the facts he kicked 8 goals twice in 2006 don't u remember his record breaking game against st kilda?

Last year may not have been great but he was still valuable: kicked a 60 m goal from the boundary against adelaide to reverse the momentum and seal the game and was the main reason we nearly snached the north melb game.

I think with the record he has he should surely be given some more time to settle into the season than jumping the gun.

Robbo should def have been traded he spends more time limping around from trying to take speccies than playing footy and I too am a wheels fan but he has never really made it. Yze should have gone 2 yrs ago.

68 goals in '06, what a shocking return hey! Even in '05 he averaged 2 a game when our forward line looked potent and multi-pronged, including hauls against st kilda and hawthorn. Sure last year wasn't great but if you think injury had no part to play, then you're a fool.

His past three completed seasons have yielded one very good year, one above average year and one injury ravaged year. There is little to suggest that a fully fit Neitz wouldn't be a prominent member in our forward line, and i think this is why he has been playing a little further upfield of late, to get a bit of run into his legs.

I hope you are right - and I'm happy for him to prove me wrong. Somehow though I doubt it and think his time is up.

I hope you are right - and I'm happy for him to prove me wrong. Somehow though I doubt it and think his time is up.

You are right he shouldnt have saddled up. Neither should have Yze and I wouldnt give Wheels more than four matches to show something. List management was lax.

But the issue I have is respect for all players old and current.

Too many posters have a go at players but would crawl over broken glass to chat with them. They would suddenly find that lost respect very quickly.

Im tipping that "mate" of yours that won a bluey got a tap on the shoulder as well. I bet you dont talk to him about his last year of AFL.

poor wheels, if only he could get his body right. He's only 28 and given he doesn't play an overly hard-running game (in terms of distance covered) if he could just get his body right he really could play for the next few years as he reads the play so well, big if though it seems.

but absolutely right Franky, the biggest issue with people voicing their opinions in that fashion is that it is so disrespectful that the message gets lost along the way. Hyperbole and slander only hinders ones argument

Im tipping that "mate" of yours that won a bluey got a tap on the shoulder as well. I bet you dont talk to him about his last year of AFL.

His tap on the shoulder took him to another club - the tap was given by one of the greatest demons of all time.

We chat at great length about his last season - as well as his time at the Dees (who he followed as a kid) and the club he played for before that.

His tap on the shoulder took him to another club - the tap was given by one of the greatest demons of all time.

We chat at great length about his last season - as well as his time at the Dees (who he followed as a kid) and the club he played for before that.

Now Im going to be thinking about that all day!

And I must admit that I hope Roger Ellingsworth, David Cordner, Matthew Febey among many others, dont ask me to repeat what Ive yelled from the safety of the Smokers Stand.

Mea Culpa.

I am not sure how having Nathan Thompson or Tom Hawkins kick multiple goals when manned by N Carroll assists in developing our team.

I would have thought if Carroll has any future at AFL level it would be marking medium sized/3rd tall forwards not minding the goal square against 197cm 100 kg giants.

If Garland/Martin/Frawley/Macnamara aren't ready to play on those big blokes then they should select someone who is at this stage Ben Holland is that man.

Coaches often profess selection is horses for courses. If a matchup exists the correct selection should be made, this week with Thompson, Hale and MacIntosh all likely to spend time inside f50 Holland should be picked if fit.

That rule however changes after round 15 should tanking be an obvious source of additional quality draft picks. At this stage of the season however the task should be to win and identify methods of improving on field performance. A win this week after a commendable effort against the Cats will get some respectability back which will have positive effects right around the club.

Agree with you 100% Benny has the ability to play down back (proven) as well as across CHF (also proven). We know Miller is NOT A BACKMAN AND THE JURY IS STILL OUT AS FAR AS I'M CONCERNED WHETHER HE HAS THE ABILITY AND CONSISTENCY TO PLAY CHF.

BRING BACK BENNY!!!

You are benny Holland. That was picked up a yr or so ago if I remember rightly. Haha what a goose!

Ha, I'm not that tall my friend!!!

I'd prefer to see young Stef Martin have a run that Benny. I'd love to see where the kid is at and I'm not sure on Benny's fitness comittment or mental state at present.

Ben Holland is a professional equal to anyone in the comp and will be prepared to play to the best of his abilities should be be picked, of that you can be sure

BENNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNY

BENNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNY

Bring back the MEchaNoMaN

I think there is always a spot for buckets against a tall forward. A Brad Johnson type will [censored] him, but a tall Kozi type, Benny gets the nod.

I'm benny's biggest fan but i am never in favour of brining in injured players. Let's save this debate for a few weeks time when he's fit again!!

Guys please, are we talking about the same player here? The player who has been impersonating a real one for the last 10 years? Lets see, hes slow, cant kick, makes shocking skill errors. I nearly have a heart attack anytime he gets the ball. Come on, leave him out of the team. Sure its funny to watch but he is borderline useless.