I know this was a hottly debated topic at the time of it's announcement, but after reading about our leadership group having a meeting to discuss what happened on Sunday, i thought the topic ought to be revisited.

Almost everyone on this site fels pretty strongly that both Yze and Miller are not good enough to hold their respective places in the team. Now throw in Bruce, Robbo and even our skipper Neita as having their spots questioned, things look pretty bleak IMO.

How can you have the leaders of your club not having the form or skills warranted for their selection in the starting 22?

If they are consistently selected, it will cause players underneath them to question if they are being selected due to their standing within the club as a leader and not due to their ability. That kind of stuff eats away at the fabric of a team.

If they are not selected, then where does our leadership come from? What would be they point of the leadership group? Can we change it throughout the year?

When we look back on this season, and if we do as poorly as Sunday has forecasted, i believe most of us here at Demonland and hopefully DB himself will see that this is one part of where we went wrong.

Finally, my leadship group for 2009 is Brock McLean, Nathan Jones, Lynden Dunn, Jarryd Rivers and Cameron Bruce.

I know this was a hottly debated topic at the time of it's announcement, but after reading about our leadership group having a meeting to discuss what happened on Sunday, i thought the topic ought to be revisited.

Almost everyone on this site fels pretty strongly that both Yze and Miller are not good enough to hold their respective places in the team. Now throw in Bruce, Robbo and even our skipper Neita as having their spots questioned, things look pretty bleak IMO.

How can you have the leaders of your club not having the form or skills warranted for their selection in the starting 22?

If they are consistently selected, it will cause players underneath them to question if they are being selected due to their standing within the club as a leader and not due to their ability. That kind of stuff eats away at the fabric of a team.

If they are not selected, then where does our leadership come from? What would be they point of the leadership group? Can we change it throughout the year?

When we look back on this season, and if we do as poorly as Sunday has forecasted, i believe most of us here at Demonland and hopefully DB himself will see that this is one part of where we went wrong.

Finally, my leadship group for 2009 is Brock McLean, Nathan Jones, Lynden Dunn, Jarryd Rivers and Cameron Bruce.

Junior is still a leader. you can`t leave him out of the group regardless of who else shouldnt be in there( ie, Yze n Miller)He had a bad day at the office on Sunday (Who didnt?)If we had 22 hearts on the park like his , we`d have won a flag in the last 5 years. Also , 2 B n F`s just quietly ! I agree they need a shake up though, in fact it might be a great wake up call 4 the the whole playing group if one of em got dropped this weekend or perhps 2 of em ( ie , Yze n Miller)

A leadership group is usually elected by people who don't want to be put into the basket themselves.

Leadership is not "elected" it is displayed.

You don't need to elect someone/s as leaders, they lead.

The Skippa, is our only leader. The rest nominated are lightweights and display nothing.

A leadership group is usually elected by people who don't want to be put into the basket themselves.

The "leadership group" was elected by the players. Make of that what you will. Frankly, I think the whole notion is [censored]. Looks great if your winning, stupid and silly if your not.

Pretty sad really

For example, some leaders of other teams -

West Coast - Kerr, Cox, Glass, Wirrpunda

Brisbane - Brown, Black, power, Lappin

Geelong - Scarlett, Bartel, Harley, Ablett

Port - Tredrea, Cornes. Burgoyne, Lade

Melbourne - Bruce, Yze, Robertson, Miller

I think I just vomited

Pretty sad really

For example, some leaders of other teams -

West Coast - Kerr, Cox, Glass, Wirrpunda

Brisbane - Brown, Black, power, Lappin

Geelong - Scarlett, Bartel, Harley, Ablett

Port - Tredrea, Cornes. Burgoyne, Lade

Melbourne - Bruce, Yze, Robertson, Miller

I think I just vomited

What do you notice about these players. By and large, they are HARD as well as talented. Bruce: talented, not hard; Miller: hard, not talented; Yze & Robinson? ...hmmmm

Again, we need HARD & skilled players. And I mean hard, not stupid aggressive etc.

I know this was a hottly debated topic at the time of it's announcement, but after reading about our leadership group having a meeting to discuss what happened on Sunday, i thought the topic ought to be revisited.

Almost everyone on this site fels pretty strongly that both Yze and Miller are not good enough to hold their respective places in the team. Now throw in Bruce, Robbo and even our skipper Neita as having their spots questioned, things look pretty bleak IMO.

How can you have the leaders of your club not having the form or skills warranted for their selection in the starting 22?

If they are consistently selected, it will cause players underneath them to question if they are being selected due to their standing within the club as a leader and not due to their ability. That kind of stuff eats away at the fabric of a team.

If they are not selected, then where does our leadership come from? What would be they point of the leadership group? Can we change it throughout the year?

When we look back on this season, and if we do as poorly as Sunday has forecasted, i believe most of us here at Demonland and hopefully DB himself will see that this is one part of where we went wrong.

Finally, my leadship group for 2009 is Brock McLean, Nathan Jones, Lynden Dunn, Jarryd Rivers and Cameron Bruce.

Jerry I think it's a valid concern, and one I'm sure a lot of people have been thinking a fair bit about. Certainly I think we'll see a fair amount of chest beating and finger pointing over the next couple of weeks if we get another couple of those results. Unfortunately there are no easy answers.

Firstly I like the youngster's you've nominated for the leadership group and would probably add Bell to it as well, but disagree with you in part about Miller.

Here's my take on the situation - and without wanting to sound like an "I know boats" prat, I have had a bit of background in both leadership training and practice courtesy of professional experience (though sometimes as a reluctant participant) and as a football captain and coach.

The situation the club is in has been long identified, under a new coach they've chosen a new path, but the end result I guess is the same- it was only natural that the most senior and experienced players were elected because in looking at group dynamics that's the norm rather than the exception. Given where our list is I don't see that apart from Green there were any other genuine alternatives.

In Footy a leader needs to be the following:

1. Good (top ten in the B&F)

2. Courageous

2. Selfless

3. Responsible

4. Honest

5. Obedient

Communication skills are also an asset.

Now we can judge the current leadership group against those criteria fairly harshly and we can argue the toss about players like Miller - who I think is a good leader - till the cows come home; but the alternative is to promote a group that aren't ready ahead of their time and potentially have a different set of problems. We need to get it right, the club has put a process in place to develop leaders at the club, it's pretty clear there'll be some short term pain (but hopefully some of the current batch will step up), and it's what many of us have known for a while would happen until the younger players are ready to assume the mantle.

Great post Graz. I would certainly make communication skills requirement No 6.

new melbourne leadership should be

jones, mclean, sylvia, jmac and nieta

I actually don't have a problem with Miller being in the leadership group. Bit like Maxwell at Collingwood, hasn't quite got it together on field but obviously is disciplined and hard working off it.

My problem is with Robertson and Yze. Both represent what you don't want in a leader. Selfish and uncommitted. I read an article about Robertson performing a teaching role with the younger forwards such as Garland and Newton and he must be doing a good job. Newton played exactly like Robertson on the weekend, selfish and uncommitted.

new melbourne leadership should be

jones, mclean, sylvia, jmac and nieta

Sylvia? What has he done to justify a spot in the leadership group?

Pretty sad really

For example, some leaders of other teams -

West Coast - Kerr, Cox, Glass, Wirrpunda

Brisbane - Brown, Black, power, Lappin

Geelong - Scarlett, Bartel, Harley, Ablett

Port - Tredrea, Cornes. Burgoyne, Lade

Melbourne - Bruce, Yze, Robertson, Miller

I think I just vomited

Get to Yze Magic to a functional Magnetic Resonance Imaging machine pronto...he's starting to make sound rational observations.

As for Rhino's comment on communication...damn right, and lets not think that is "he who yaps loudest" some of the best leaders I have played with could communicate everything with just one cold hard stare that said "are you bringing your best efforts today"...tended to work more often then not!

Sylvia? What has he done to justify a spot in the leadership group?

1- he wasn't part of the team that got belted

2- we know he goes all out ie hard at it -ie even if "it" is seedy nightclubs

3- he has a personality unlike the lifeless non-existent statues that certain players are

4- he seems to need extra responsibility

5- in bert newtons infamous words " I like the boy"

Funny how Moloney never rates a mention when it comes to leadership at this club.

He's the only one out there with a friggin' heart and some determination, even when he's not playing. Also never takes a backwards step, hates losing, loves winning. OH, now I see why he's not up there with the likes of Bruce, Yze, Miller, Robertson... White... whatever other so called leader has been in that joke of a group...

Neitz was a great captain, his career is almost up.

Rivers, Moloney and Jones are the only ones I see fit to be leaders of this bunch of softies, perhaps Green if he didn't go missing so often.

Rivers and Moloney rarely play, and Jones is too young for a club with no balls.

What leadership (?)

Edit: Brock has shown a huge lack of respect for rules, the club and the new coach. Born leader, also a born idiot, so he's on ice for a while.

fair point DeeTox but i think it would be better to have players who are more likely to play the majority of the season. Moloney might play 10 games this year if lucky and Rivers.......well...........who knows???