DD, your right...Weetra stood up much better then I expected and at times showed a bit of bloody gumption. Have not amended the original post as its interesting to see what changes in attitude there will be [mine and other poster's] come the end of the season compared to thoughts prior to it.

That's fine DR It'll make interesting reading in about 16 weeks time.

Also what about some extra coaching by the Choir of Hard Knocks - teach the lads to perform in front of a crowd with dignity and passion (and on $150 a week)

(by the by I hope you don't mind a correction but, it's Ku not Klu).

It's a bit hard to pick out who's gonna be any good from the blokes that are still only 2 or 3 seasons into their careers, but of the ones I've seen here's my shortwinded analysis of the playing list:

Matthew Bate - once he patches up a couple of things he'll be good, tall running midfielder that can pinch hit up forward (perhaps rotating with Cale Morton)

Daniel Bell - probably in that limbo between AFL standard and VFL, still 22 so worth another year or 2s look

Cameron Bruce - the one A class player on your list at the moment (not to say others won't make it), versatile (can legitimately play anywhere aside from the ruck), runs his ass off and is a polished player

Nathan Carroll - might as well keep him cos there's no one else, seems to be lacking upstairs a bit though and they say 90% of football is played above the head

Aaron Davey - definitely at AFL level but has gone off the boil a bit

Brad Green - needs to go back to playing as a forward because even though he gets a bit of the ball he doesn't man up

Ben Holland - insurance policy for a couple of younger players, basically making up numbers at this stage in his career

Mark Jamar - been willing him to take the next step cos I'm a fan but at best is a back up for a back up ruckman

Chris Johnson - looks alright then disappears, at the crossroads

Paul Johnson - will become an AFL standard ruckman if given another 2 years to develop

Nathan Jones - certainly up to AFL level, will be interesting to see whether he reaches the Kerr, Ablett level though

James McDonald - great performer in an under-performing team (though nothing more than a decent player), still got a couple of years left in him

Brock McLean - not sure he's as good as everyone says, still very much capable though. needs to get his head sorted out first

Brad Miller - same boat as Ben Holland but slightly more useful

Brent Moloney - if he stays injury free will be a gun, probably needs to work on his kicking a bit though

David Neitz - past his best you'd have to say, probably will be his last year if Newton kicks along a bit

Michael Newton - won't be the Neitz bash and crash type, but an athletic key forward (most likely full forward) is always handy. reminds me a bit of Nathan Thompson

Jared Rivers - i'm willing to nominate him as the Dee's next captain provided he gets his body right. think Tom Harley

Russell Robertson - probably hindered by the way Melbourne play, needs the ball coming in quick to offset his lack of height as essentially a 3rd tall player

Colin Sylvia - needs to perform consistently soon or will get thrown in the "wasted talent" basket along with Des Headland

Paul Wheatley - only good if they introduce the super goal, waste of space otherwise. not big enough to play key possy and not nimble enough to take smalls

Matthew Whelan - if fit one of the better back pockets in the league but is running out of time given his injuries

Jeff White - game has outgrown him, one dimensional player who can't even play that dimension well anymore

Adem Yze - for someone who is meant to be "skillful" makes way to many basic skill errors and really can't do much at all

This is my take on the topic

I know there is a lot of talk about this already, especially after our fall out against the dorks, but I think it is time that Melbourne do a serious Hawthorn like rebuild at the end of this season and for this to happen, these are the players that need to retire, get traded or be delisted by the end of the season....excuse my harshness, i know a couple of these players are young but big things need to be done and none of them would have made geelongs best 22 last year so could not be apart of our premiership aspirations in maybe 3 or 4 years down the track...

1.) Neitz--retire, finish on a high with the 150th birthday of the game, hand over the captaincy

2.) Carroll--trade or delist, just not good enough

3.) Ben Jolland--retire, hes been a solid contributor, will not help our future

4.) James MacDonald--retire,my favourite player, however is ageing and will not be apart of the future

5.) Mark Jamar--delist/trade, not a premiership ruckman

6.) Brad Miller--delist/trade, doesnt have a brain

7.) Russell Robertson--delist/trade--not a premiership forward any more

8.) Paul Wheatley--see Ben Holland

9.) Jeff White--see Ben Holland

10.) Mathew Whelan--see Benny Holland

11.) Adem Yze--read all of the posts, i have changed my mind on adem, i have lost hope in him at his mature age

Hold onto:

PJ, Green and Bruce for one more season

Push hard:

Meesen, the 5 new boys of this year, Valenti, Aussie and Spencer, plus all of the other regulars who will push to be in our best 22 this and next year

3.) Ben Jolland--retire, hes been a solid contributor, will not help our future

damn that Ben Jolland is an interesting player....

In regards to white - the guy is 195 centimetres tall and as such relies on athletecism to gain the upper hand. when you get old you begin to lose your atleticism - a fact that white is having to contend with right now. Having said that we still need him, he may not be in his prime but the sad fact is he's our best ruckman. in an ideal word he'd leave gracefully now, but look around you - we lost by over 100 points last weekend - this world is far from ideal. PJ is two years off and meesen just looks out of place as a ruckman atm. we still need white to hold the fort. i hope later in the yr this will change and we will be able to give white the send off he deserves this yr but atm i cant see it happening.

btw lumping him in with buckets isnt fair - he and wheels are better than that.

i'll be curious to see our list next year, can you even turn over 11 plus players as some of you wish. and many of the 'trade options' are irrelevant because either no other club would take it, or we would receive a very low draft pick which probably leaves us in the same position.

we're in a difficult spot with our list/club at the moment because we're at a changeover period with so many to make room for. however with the probable departure of around 4-5 of out older brigade and the passing on of a couple more, i think we can have an ok balance provided that the bracket of guys 21-24 are coached in the right way and are able to mature, otherwise it doesn't matter who stays or goes

......

1.) Neitz--retire, finish on a high with the 150th birthday of the game, hand over the captaincy

2.) Carroll--trade or delist, just not good enough

3.) Ben Jolland--retire, hes been a solid contributor, will not help our future

4.) James MacDonald--retire,my favourite player, however is ageing and will not be apart of the future

5.) Mark Jamar--delist/trade, not a premiership ruckman

6.) Brad Miller--delist/trade, doesnt have a brain

7.) Russell Robertson--delist/trade--not a premiership forward any more

8.) Paul Wheatley--see Ben Holland

9.) Jeff White--see Ben Holland

10.) Mathew Whelan--see Benny Holland

11.) Adem Yze--read all of the posts, i have changed my mind on adem, i have lost hope in him at his mature age

...

All of them wont go in the one year. And you have to look at those junior players that just dont cut it at AFL level

Of those you list these are certainties.....

Neitz, Yze, Holland will retire. That's 3

Whelan, White, Junior are possibles. That say 1

Warnock. CJ, Weetra will be delisted. 3

Possibly Miller or Carroll will go depending on junior player development Say 1.

And that before trades of players of any value. That can be address later in the year.

We missed the boat over the past couple of years to extract value out of Yze and Robbo in the market and are paying the price for such inspiring leaders.

Of those you list these are certainties.....

Neitz, Yze, Holland will retire. That's 3

Tend to agree

Whelan, White, Junior are possibles. That say 1

If wheels doesn come up for much this year..then I think he'l go.. White possibly.. Id like to see Jnr stay..certainly of more value than White presentlyl

Warnock. CJ, Weetra will be delisted. 3

warnock probably.. CJ..again likely unless he steps up.. .Weetra?? bit harsh.. I think he's shown enough to warrant a look at at end of season

Possibly Miller or Carroll will go depending on junior player development Say 1.

Id have hoped both...but likely only one might get traded. ....get Roos on the line will ya !! lol

And that before trades of players of any value. That can be address later in the year.

We missed the boat over the past couple of years to extract value out of Yze and Robbo in the market and are paying the price for such inspiring leaders.

Oh did we eever miss the boat with some trades

as mentioned previously.. theres the possibility of turning over 25% if we want to ( allowing for a few 'retirements" )

So many carreers are on the line this year. Strap yourselves in fo r a bumpy ride

Bruce better be traded at years end

Neitz, White and Yze to retire

Miller and Carroll finally given the flick

Wheatley possibly gone. Whelan a darkhorse to retire.

Big changes are coming, and I mean BIG

i'll be curious to see our list next year, can you even turn over 11 plus players as some of you wish. a

Think Pagan cleared out about 13 when he first turned up to the Blues