What Deanox means is that 98% of people on demonland want Miller gone and refuse to see any positives to his inclusion to the team.

btw, just in case you need to clarrify my position on brad miller:

see post #11

see post #13

and just in case you need reminding how much credibility you have around here:

see post 147

If he can get over his inability to win inside F50 contests then you may be right.

...

What like a Bartram???

For pick 55 we have got proportionate value for Miller. Any further would be a bonus. he has nearly played 100 games of AFL. Hell there are top 10 picks that never play more than 1 or 2.

you make two good points. inside 50 contests and pack marking (under physical pressure ie not on a lea)d. as a leading full forward with space he could be effective. he would need to utilise his size for bullocking type work, and i spose his handball is good enough to give off to a runner if the balls on the ground.

RE bartram, you are right that we could get a gem. or we could get a nothing. and i think there is more chance of a nothing than a bartram. also given the lack of talls floating around, his height and size offer something a bartram doesnt, even if its in a back up role. but i spose the footy dept would have weighed up. if we were offered pick 50 for him, we would've sat down and worked out what we thought would be available. maybe we would have asked for higher, but we probably wouldnt have gotten it.

I like what I hear about Millers attitude and work ethic on the track, I like his willingness for the rough stuff.... But until the day I see him consistently perform ON-FIELD.... I will remain in the 98%

you make two good points. inside 50 contests and pack marking (under physical pressure ie not on a lea)d. as a leading full forward with space he could be effective.

It will be challenging.

Hence this is why he has to drift up to the centre wing to pick up possessions in no man's land

lol interesting that between that post and this 3 people have claimed to be in the 2 and only 1 in the 98?

i like brad miller. i always have, and was one of his biggest advocates back in the day (when he could perform and looked promising). since then he has been abysmal. he has let himself down, and the club. he has all the right physical attributes. he has the maturity and the leadership. does he have the footballing skills and confidence? he hasnt the last few years. he has been terrible. he can't kick, his pack marking is questionable, and im not sure if he knows what decision making is. if he finds form, is utilised correctly and improves on key areass, he could be a valuable contributor.

i think he should be placed closer to goals (and newton at CHF) so that his kicking is not as much of an issue. at best he could hold down a position and be a solid contributor. at worst i think he has value in a bits and parts tall who will succeed benny holland. if we had of got a decent offer for him i wouldve traded him in a heartbeat, but he has more value to us as a 24ish strong tall than a 17 yo small-midfielder picked up at pick 55 would.

I like him but he hasnt been the same since they made him play soft thats not the way he natually plays, I hope he gets back to the way he was taught to play and then we can make a real call on him and I think it will be positive

Lets get something clear. I do not think he is up to senior footy atm.

But I think that if anyone can change their fortune around through sheer hard work, Miller can.

He has a lot of work to do and he knows that. But it speaks volumes of his leadership traits and the respect he has at the club, that even though he's struggling on the field, he was still chosen to lead the club. That's a great testament to him.

Lets get something clear. I do not think he is up to senior footy atm.

But I think that if anyone can change their fortune around through sheer hard work, Miller can.

He has a lot of work to do and he knows that. But it speaks volumes of his leadership traits and the respect he has at the club, that even though he's struggling on the field, he was still chosen to lead the club. That's a great testament to him.

Someone's just got to teach him to kick a football. I'm not saying it's Daniher's fault but you can't help but think he ignored the basics...can Miller be taught to kick properly let alone with distance?

The fact is not all blokes can kick a ball 65 metres of one boot a la M. Voss but seriously, sometimes his kicking is on par with Mark Blake's.

btw, just in case you need to clarrify my position on brad miller:

see post #11

see post #13

and just in case you need reminding how much credibility you have around here:

see post 147

Deanox I know this might come as a shock but not everything I write is about you. I said generally thats peoples opninion I did not say yours. Also I said 98% of people on DEMONLAND I did not say 98% of people in this thread Rhino.

Bring back Godders

It will be challenging.

Hence this is why he has to drift up to the centre wing to pick up possessions in no man's land

I would say a link up man instead

Also I said 98% of people on DEMONLAND I did not say 98% of people in this thread Rhino.

I know. It was bollocks the first time.

FWIW I have not been pro Miller since he "softened" his game in recent years.

But in his defence he has been playing in "no mans land" for too long.

Brad Miller should NOT be played in the last line of defence because of his lack of "defensive" decision making skills.

He also isn't a true CHF because he leads too far up the ground.

So where should Brad Miller play ?

If he can get his confidence/aggression back i believe he would be great in the Forward Pocket also filling in at Full forward when Neitz moves up the ground (which I think he will do more often in 08).

At CHF he has shown that he can shake his opponent, lead and mark in front on many occasions, but ends up on the wing....

If he did the same from FF or a FP he would mark the ball 45 mtrs from goal !!!

His toughness around the packs in a FP/FF position would create many a loose ball for the attacking midfielders to collect.

I will support EVERY player while they are on our list !!!!

Brad Miller, the only way '08' will be your year is if you "MAKE IT YOUR YEAR"

Has he got what it takes ?

We will find out soon enough.

So where should Brad Miller play ?

If he can get his confidence/aggression back i believe he would be great in the Forward Pocket also filling in at Full forward when Neitz moves up the ground (which I think he will do more often in 08).

So where does Robertson play? And Newton for that matter. My preference for the 3rd tall is Dunn, but unfortunately it seems that he'll end up being a jack of all trades.

I find this all kind of funny in a deja vu sort of way. I will say there are few players that seem to polarise this place quite like our Brad !!

A lot of vitriloic lampooning mixed with denial seems to surround this plagued chap..that just is !!

Also what is ... Is ? is that this is a player of limited ability. he can be good ( in a manner ) at times, but its a very narrow type of effect. He does at times show great promise. This is what irks most... some show of a "player' often rudely interupted by distinct and unequivocal medicocrity !! Most often his good is on a day when the rest is bad.. not 100% what to make of that..just interesting.

Im going to make the call now...and am no less happy than any pig in sh!t should I be proved wrong, he is a very good VFL player that occasionally by luck, by chance plays above himself and delights his following with titlilations without substance. I am genuinely stuffed to think how he holds a place in this lineup..but he does. Not only that bit Bails thinks he has promise. wel one would think so after so long, but Im only a pundit..a spectator and i will for the moment give over to those closer and more intimate with the goings on and 'wait and see" ( once again...no holding breath though )

Some have had the audacity ( cheeky sods ) to suggest that attitude and showings at training dont necesarily translate to on field pro-ess.. how dare they input 'REALITY" into all our preseason dreaming !!

The total irony of any murmurrings directed towards Miller is that we know he can do something.. we ( the majority it seems ) just dont quite know that THAT is !!

If he can be 'something ' of effect.. something positive on the field of battle then many of us will happily swap flags and swing behind the Miller is ALL camp.

Questions to those that dispute our position to question :

how long do we wait ?

should he occupy a spot when others show as much if not more potential?

and the piece de resistance !!...does he know which way is forwards ??

please discuss )

I'm generally in the 98%, but also recognise that prior to 2006 he was widely thought to be the next captain, and for good reason..

Miller played his best football in 2007 playing at full forward with both Neitz and Robertson injured, where he kicked 2 hauls of 3 goals in games where we got beaten. Big deal some may say, but I believe that is his best position..

I know with Neitz and Robertson around (and Juice for that matter)i it will be difficult to get a regular gig there, but I think this year he needs to be groomed there for the post Neitz bullocking work allowing Newton to do the more spectacular things. Robbo needs to work on his engine a bit as I would like him across HF more alongside Newton who I believe should play at CHF this year.

Unfortunately this may mean that players such as Bate and Dunn play out of position for there careers as I believe they are more natural forwards than midfielders, but with the way the game is going tall utilities are all the rage these days.

My forward line 2008

HF: Davey, Newton, Robertson

F: Yze/Maric, Neitz, Miller

My forward line 2008

HF: Davey, Newton, Robertson

F: Yze/Maric, Neitz, Miller

Miller is a good runner and should be more than capable of playing CHF. He needs to learn to work to the right spots. Enter Dean Bailey.

Miller is a good runner and should be more than capable of playing CHF. He needs to learn to work to the right spots. Enter Dean Bailey.

but he cant kick more than 40 metres? and hasn't learnt to in his 80 odd game career so far...

This is a very interesting thread and just about sums up the whole Miller conundrum! Had Sheedy been appointed coach I was certain that Miller would be well looked after. I have always seen him as having all of the required attributes except the "footy brain" part, which most would consider to be paramount. I was convinced that Sheedy would have seen him as a Walsh/Wallis type project. It appears Bailey has been heavily influenced by his time with Sheedy and Mark Williams (who also has an interesting record with projects-our new assistant coach Mahoney being one example). I think if Miller can return to the levels of on-field aggression he showed in 2004 in particular (before he got really silly in 05), then he may well be a very useful player for us, whose performance can't be measured in traditional statistics alone. If he can be an "enforcer" of sorts and make opponents around him "second guess" then he will have gone some way to justifying his place. He has performed well in a couple of QB matches and certainly played a great final in 06 - he has shown he can play in "big" games. He has also performed well on Barry Hall more than once. Time will tell, but for what it's worth, I think Bailey's faith might be justified - if not, what have we lost?

A big part of being a leader, is setting a good example off the field.

There is no doubt that Miller needs to step up big time and start performing on the field, but you just cannot fault his character. Even when he is struggling, he is always in there trying and he is always positive. I have to say that I really do admire his positive outlook and the way he carries himself. He really did come from nowhere, picked very late in the draft, and it is a credit to him that his teammates see him as a leader even though he has struggled for a position.

Why can't we just concede that he has a lot of good points, and wait and see if he can start improving on the field? Why always take the negative route? I know we're Melbourne supporters and it's ingrained in us to be pessimistic, but it really is getting boring.

You call yourself Jaded??? Enuf said!!! lol

But I agree with you here 100% nonetheless..............