Best team on the park

[Guest MFC4Life]

FB:Bell Carroll Whelan

HB: Petterd Rivers Wheatley

C: Green McLean Bruce

HF: Sylvia Robertson Bate

FF: Yze Neitz Davey

Rov: White McDonald Jones

Interchange: Meesen Bartram Newton Moloney

Emergency: Miller Dunn Bode

Quite the conundrum...obviously we would never have a full list of players available but that leaves the following players, all who have played senior footy:

Buckley, Frawley, Garland, Holland, Jamar, C. Johnson, P. Johnson, Warnock.

Buckley: Not sure where he's at. Aerobically good and quick but skills and decision making are suspect.

Frawley: Baptism of fire. Has the ability. Will need to be slow-tracked.

Garland: Has not inspired thus far. He played full forward for the Tassie Devils so why was he been spending much of his time in the backline? I can't understand this 'all players need to be able to play everywhere' mentality.

Holland: Pinch Hitter

Jamar: Not up to the grade

C. Johnson: Awareness and physical presence are suspect

P. Johnson: Very much mired in football position purgatory.

Warnock: not up to the grade

And the Newbies:

Cheney, Grimes, Maric, McNamara, Morton and Weetra.

I would argue Maric first and Morton second have the best chances of getting a senior game next year.

[gOLLy 401]

Yze for anyone

[Dappa Dan 2,188]

Is this the first "Best 22" thread for the year?!!! Is it that time already?

Garland: Has not inspired thus far. He played full forward for the Tassie Devils so why was he been spending much of his time in the backline? I can't understand this 'all players need to be able to play everywhere' mentality.

I would say Garland was played in defence for him to better appreciate a defender's mentality so that he can approach the one-on-one situations with a greater understanding of what his opponent might do. Back in the day future gun full forwards would play a season or two in defence for this reason. This could be a Daniher methodology that may be scrapped.

P. Johnson: Very much mired in football position purgatory.

I think PJ and Meesen are about even for the second ruck spot. I'd select PJ based on what he's done so far, and because Meesen hasn't played yet while I've been watching.

I would argue Maric first and Morton second have the best chances of getting a senior game next year.

Yes to Maric, no to Morton. The lack of genuine small forwards will call for a quick replacement, and if his kicking boot is as magical as they keep saying he may be good for a smart goal or two. He can be hidden in a pocket... Having said that he may not have the strength to play anywhere else, being so young, which limits Bailey's options.

Morton probably will play at some point, but by gee the kid is skinny. Grimes isn't much better, but he's a genuine hard-nut midfielder apparently. Bartram did quite well as a tagger in his first season. Grimes could be given a job in the same fashion. Hopefully he has the pace. I'd say Grimes a fraction ahead of morton at this point. I'm happy to not see Morton in the red and blue until 2009.

As far as the 22 goes.

It seems to select itself, with the exception of Yze, Meesen and Newton. I think Dunn has claims to Newton's spot. Meesen, PJ and Jamar will be a week by week proposition. The NAB cup will tell us a lot. And after that I reckon Frawley and the best performed of Buckley, CJ, Frawley and Garland would be next in line.

That's assuming you want the best 22. The 22 Bailey will select with development in mind, will be different. Miller will play, Holland will be needed. And there will be surprises, like Weetra, Bode and others...

[drdrake 3,057]

It's always hard to name a 22 with out taken into account who we are playing, assuming we are looking our best 22 for round one and every one is fit this is my 22

Whelan Frawley Carroll

Bell Rivers Bruce

Sylvia Mclean Green

Robbo Miller Bate

Davey Neitz Newton

White McDonald Jones

Petterd Bartram Moloney one of PJ Jamar or Meesen

R1 is a long way off and hopefully we can find a player in the NAB cup

[Rhino Richards 1,467]

Given the youth on the list and the rather high proportion of U23 players I would see many developing over the year. So the best team at Rd 1 may be considerably different in R22.

So saying I would expect if fit, Dunn, Bate, Sylvia and McLean and Newton to lay solid claims as AFL footballers and claiming a regular AFL spot. I would expect Davey to be a more mature player this year and better for it.

If fit, I would expect Moloney, Bartram Frawley, Pettard and Meesen to make a solid contribution and by season end should be spoken about as regulars in the team.

I would not discount Morton and Grimes to get a look at AFL this year. Morton comes higly credential so I am keen to see him go.

I would hope we get good/solid years out of the older hands White, Junior, Wheels, Bruce, Green and Neitz. Robbo needs to do more than cameos against crap teams.

I think anything we get out of Miller, Yze, PJ, CJ, Holland and Jamar (and I hope we get a bit) is a bonus to the side. By year end I would expect Frawley to usurp Carroll up back.

When I look at this list and barring injuries....we should be a better competitive unit with real claims for September action

[Guest MFC4Life]

It seems to select itself, with the exception of Yze, Meesen and Newton. I think Dunn has claims to Newton's spot. Meesen, PJ and Jamar will be a week by week proposition. The NAB cup will tell us a lot. And after that I reckon Frawley and the best performed of Buckley, CJ, Frawley and Garland would be next in line.

I still think a fighting fit 30 year old Yze ia an essential member of this team. As a question who would you have in his stead? (by the way this is not an Yze bashing thread).

Meesen is debatable as he hasn't played. However I picked Newton as a forward. Dunn has been playing as a midfielder and would not be able at this stage to push for a place on the ground. Would you have Newton as an interchange forward instead of Dunn? Dunn however does have the ability to play of half-forward or in the midfield so there is an argument to put him on the bench instead of Newton.

[Guest MFC4Life]

I think anything we get out of Miller, Yze, PJ, CJ, Holland and Jamar (and I hope we get a bit) is a bonus to the side. By year end I would expect Frawley to usurp Carroll up back.

Frawley has great potential but is very green. Your expectation for a 19 year old Frawley cementing the Full back position is very high. No one would want another Zac Dawson scenario to occur. The FB trade does take time to learn.

[mauriesy 6,860]

Given the youth on the list and the rather high proportion of U23 players I would see many developing over the year. So the best team at Rd 1 may be considerably different in R22.

I agree. The problem with MFC4Life's team of:

FB:Bell Carroll Whelan

HB: Petterd Rivers Wheatley

C: Green McLean Bruce

HF: Sylvia Robertson Bate

FF: Yze Neitz Davey

Rov: White McDonald Jones

Interchange: Meesen Bartram Newton Moloney

is that with the exception of Petterd, Jones and half the the interchange, it's basically the same as the one we had towards the end of 2006.

This best 22 will change, otherwise all our list rejuvenation has been for nothing. The likely usurpees are Carroll, Whelan, Wheatley, Robertson (at least from CHF), Yze, McDonald (age only), White and Moloney. The likely usurpers are Dunn, Newton, Frawley, Meesen, Buckley, Garland, Morton, Grimes and Maric, probably in that order.

I'd expect at least 3-4 changes to MFC4Life's "best on the park" if we're going to get anywhere.

[Guest MFC4Life]

I agree. The problem with MFC4Life's team of:

FB:Bell Carroll Whelan

HB: Petterd Rivers Wheatley

C: Green McLean Bruce

HF: Sylvia Robertson Bate

FF: Yze Neitz Davey

Rov: White McDonald Jones

Interchange: Meesen Bartram Newton Moloney

is that with the exception of Petterd, Jones and half the the interchange, it's basically the same as the one we had towards the end of 2006.

This best 22 will change, otherwise all our list rejuvenation has been for nothing. The likely usurpees are Carroll, Whelan, Wheatley, Robertson (at least from CHF), Yze, McDonald (age only), White and Moloney. The likely usurpers are Dunn, Newton, Frawley, Meesen, Buckley, Garland, Morton, Grimes and Maric, probably in that order.

I'd expect at least 3-4 changes to MFC4Life's "best on the park" if we're going to get anywhere.

So with with usurpers in the team with three to for changes you propose:

FB:Bell Frawley Bartram

HB: Petterd Rivers Buckley?

C: Green McLean Bruce

HF: Sylvia Dunn Bate

FF: Yze Neitz Davey

Rov: White McDonald Jones

Interchange: Meesen Garland Newton Moloney

Backline look rather unsteady without Whelan and Wheatley.

I don't think Buckley and Garland are up to the grade.

Frawley is to green to give 22 games to at Full Back.

Why is Neitz not included in your usurpees for age? He is going on 33.

I can only assume you included Wheatley, Whelan and Moloney in the usurpees as they are injury prone.

[Gouga 512]

I actually think Carroll will remain our best option at FB throughout the season. Hopefully DB has the luxury of playing Frawley in the BP or on the HBF when selected.

I find it interesting that again nobody has placed Holland in their best 22. I acknowledge the 'pinch hitter' arguement but in my opinion Gehrig and Rocca are not good enough players to constitute a 30+ year old who normally would not be in our 22 being given another year of AFL football.

Also Robbo is not our best option at CHF. I'd move him to a pocket and play one of Bate, Miller or Newton at CHF.

[Guest MFC4Life]

Also Robbo is not our best option at CHF. I'd move him to a pocket and play one of Bate, Miller or Newton at CHF.

Agree, although Miller is not up to the grade and Newton is a work in progress. Bate played sensationally in the leading CHFesque role last year.

[Rhino Richards 1,467]

Frawley has great potential but is very green. Your expectation for a 19 year old Frawley cementing the Full back position is very high. No one would want another Zac Dawson scenario to occur. The FB trade does take time to learn.

Firstly I am not that sold on Carroll and think he warms the seat for another better player. Whether that be Frawley or someone else.

By the end of the season I would expect that Frawley would be close to pushing for a regular spot in defence. Gouga's option may arise. The Zac Dawson scenario occurred because Zac Dawson was not that good and at the time, he was playing in a team where their midfield were getting beaten regularly and Dawson was forced to play on opponents way bigger than him

[mo64 5,262]

FB:Bell Carroll Whelan

HB: Petterd Rivers Wheatley

C: Green McLean Bruce

HF: Sylvia Robertson Bate

FF: Yze Neitz Davey

Rov: White McDonald Jones

Interchange: Meesen Bartram Newton Moloney

From your 22 MFC4Life, i had the following changes:

In: Frawley, Dunn, Jamar

Out: Bartram, Yze, Meesen

Full back is a huge problem for mine. Miller has been training as a forward, so I think you're right in nominating Carroll as our fullback. Opposed to what other's have said, i've liked what i've seen of Garland. Most of the better key backmen played juniors as key forwards. I'm praying that Garland could be our answer to fullback.

Not expecting much from Bartram this year given his limited pre-season.

Meesen is an unknown prospect, so the NAB cup and practice matches will determine the 2nd ruckman.

I like Yze, but I can no longer have him, Robertson and Neitz in the same forward line. Our forwards need to apply greater pressure on the opposition backmen. Depending on the match-ups, there'll be games were either Robertson or Newton will be out of the 22.

[Rhino Richards 1,467]

I find it interesting that again nobody has placed Holland in their best 22. I acknowledge the 'pinch hitter' arguement but in my opinion Gehrig and Rocca are not good enough players to constitute a 30+ year old who normally would not be in our 22 being given another year of AFL football.

.

I think the pinch hitter argument seals the reason why.

At the end of 2007, we cut Brown Ward Bizzell Ferguson from our defence. While ability at AFL level is questionable going forward, there is a fair bit of experience that has gone. We now rely on Rivers and Carroll and the injury prone Whelan up back. Our fall backs are Frawley, Garland,Warnock, Cheney, McNamara. Not much experience.

Holland provides both experience and the ability to play on bigger backman. He can take contested marks (a skill diminishing in the AFL) and can play forward. I would have thought Warnock would have gone before Holland.

[Guest MFC4Life]

By the end of the season I would expect that Frawley would be close to pushing for a regular spot in defence.

I agree, but not at full back. There is no way Frawley can play Full-Back every week at this stage, he'd get smashed. Yes he well be introduced to the role at some stage in the next couple of years. For all of Carrol's shortcoming's he is still ahead of Frawley for the Full Back position.

[Gouga 512]

I think the pinch hitter argument seals the reason why.

Yes I have no doubt about that.

I just think there are too few players Holland can be effective on to justify his position.

However I will never question his dedication to the team. Hopefully Holland has a good year and proves me wrong.

[Dappa Dan 2,188]

I still think a fighting fit 30 year old Yze ia an essential member of this team. As a question who would you have in his stead? (by the way this is not an Yze bashing thread).

Yze will play. Will probably play more than half the games for the year. But since it's an opinion you're asking for, I'd like to see the future persevered with. Yze's a brilliant, but faulted player. I'd HATE for him to end up rubbing off on the Marics and Petterds of this world. However, they say he's a very vocal leader in training, so you'd always leave these judgements up to the powers that be, and the players themselves. Also I just reckon his outside brand of footy will be useful only when we're sure Jones, McLean, Moloney etc etc are winning the pill. If they're not, we'd need more hard options through the middle. I don't want to turn this into another Yze bashing thread any more than you do, but he's the wrong side of 30 and I don't expect him to learn any new tricks. His designation as a player is as an outsider. But yeah, I do see your point, and it's a close thing. I expect him to remind us sporadically of what he's capable of, but he's not going to play in a premiership for the demons.

Would you have Newton as an interchange forward instead of Dunn?

It was between the two, yes. And it really depends on those around him. I'm not sure I want to see him playing 3+ quarters for 22 rounds this year. Even for a 21 year old, he's still just so green. Dunn has played some more footy and I see him as more ready at this stage to play 22 rounds, and to come in firing in round 1. Newton will be playing HEAPS when Robbo, Neitz, Holland are injured or have niggles. I didn't highlight the post, but whoever it was that suggested our tall forwards are a bit geriatric was right... Newton will be our first drop KP forward... But for now Dunn is quicker and more flexible off the bench.

Dunn however does have the ability to play of half-forward or in the midfield so there is an argument to put him on the bench instead of Newton.

Yes. Said in one sentence what I said in a paragraph...

Also Robbo is not our best option at CHF. I'd move him to a pocket and play one of Bate, Miller or Newton at CHF.

I reckon Juice will one day play as a genuine CHF. He seems to revel in the added pressure, and loves all that room to lead into. Maybe not in 2008 so much, but at 23+ years of age, look out...

[Guest MFC4Life]

Yze will play. Will probably play more than half the games for the year. But since it's an opinion you're asking for, I'd like to see the future persevered with. Yze's a brilliant, but faulted player. I'd HATE for him to end up rubbing off on the Marics and Petterds of this world. However, they say he's a very vocal leader in training, so you'd always leave these judgements up to the powers that be, and the players themselves. Also I just reckon his outside brand of footy will be useful only when we're sure Jones, McLean, Moloney etc etc are winning the pill. If they're not, we'd need more hard options through the middle. I don't want to turn this into another Yze bashing thread any more than you do, but he's the wrong side of 30 and I don't expect him to learn any new tricks. His designation as a player is as an outsider. But yeah, I do see your point, and it's a close thing. I expect him to remind us sporadically of what he's capable of, but he's not going to play in a premiership for the demons.

I understand where your're coming from but I firmly believe there will be a NEW Adem Yze under Dean Bailey. One who chases and puts pressure on his defensive opponents.

He stagnated terribly under Daniher over the past couple of years. Whenever he played he seemed to be incredibly jaded.

His career is fleeting yet he is starting afresh under a new regime so don;t be suprised if he gives it all he's got (which I believe is still good enough for our best 22).

[deanox 8,800]

FB:Bell Carroll Whelan

HB: Petterd Rivers Wheatley

C: Green McLean Bruce

HF: Sylvia Robertson Bate

FF: Yze Neitz Davey

Rov: White McDonald Jones

Interchange: Meesen Bartram Newton Moloney

Emergency: Miller Dunn Bode

...

Buckley, Frawley, Garland, Holland, Jamar, C. Johnson, P. Johnson, Warnock.

i like what you have done there but i think the team is too short. you have named two tall forwards and two tall backs. bate will roam and has height but wont play as a stay at home tall forward. we need a third tall in defence also which means frawley or holland have to come in. at the expense of who? well im not sure if bell, whelan, petterd and bartram are all needed in the backline. play either petterd or bartram in the middle and you need to drop another mid. i think (and hope) wheatley runs in the midfield not off the backline, with bell taking the medium forwards...

[Rhino Richards 1,467]

I understand where your're coming from but I firmly believe there will be a NEW Adem Yze under Dean Bailey. One who chases and puts pressure on his defensive opponents.

He stagnated terribly under Daniher over the past couple of years. Whenever he played he seemed to be incredibly jaded.

It will be a real achievement for Bailey to do this when it should be the player that is responsible and accountable for those actions. DD is right about old dogs and new tricks. Last year when Yze tried to do this he now lacks the pace to chase and cant make a tackle stick.

Why could Yze not chase and put defensive pressure on his opponents in the past five years? Why would Yze avoid the contested ball so often? That's right it was the previous Coach.

If anyone got a free ride under Daniher...it was Yze. Yze did not repay the faith put in him.

If DD is right and Yze plays at least half the games this year, I hope it is on Bailey's strict terms not on the front running terms he exhibited in recent years. I am confident Bailey will enforce team rules alot better than his predecessor.

[Damo 3,030]

i think (and hope) wheatley runs in the midfield not off the backline, with bell taking the medium forwards...

Why do so many think Wheatley is going to suddenly become a player that has earnt his spot? He plays 2 or 3 decent games each year and you hear he has finally made it. I rate him with C.Johnson. Please dont tell me about NAB nine pointers, How many has he kicked? 2? or 3? He has been there 8 years.

Green(for example) is much more important but is regularly dismissed as soft.

I think that this is solely because he has a face full of expression in tight spots(um, yes he looks scared!)

Miller is castigated but puts pressure on the opposition.

The disparaging of Nathan Carroll annoys and confounds me. Even if rivers has a stellar year, and that would be after a sh!t pre-season, we need Carroll.

Paul Wheatley doesnt effect any pressure at all. Skill alone is not enough.

Other sides that have been down like Richmond and Carlton are finally getting better because they have delisted players that dont just promise. The tigers adding Newman to the leadership is a change for the better for them.

If Wheatley and Chris Johnson get regular games we are not going to get far.

I would rather play someone who shows a bit, no matter how raw. And raw we now have plenty of.

For these conflicting reasons, I dont think the love currently being shown for Dean Bailey is going to last past April.

I hope he enjoys his Honeymoon.

[mo64 5,262]

The disparaging of Nathan Carroll annoys and confounds me. Even if rivers has a stellar year, and that would be after a sh!t pre-season, we need Carroll.

Carroll is incapable of shutting down the better forwards in the AFL. Is that disparaging enough for you?

[Al`s DEMONS 0]

Wheelan Miller Frawley

Green Rivers Bell

Dunn Brock Pettard

Robbo Bate Yze

Newton Neita Davey

White Jones Bruce

int Meeson Moloney Macdonald Sylvia

[Left Field 313]

I cannot see Yze hurting the opposition as anything other than a winger.

Up forward his lack of contest and lack of defensive pressure costs on the rebound. Down back his lack of defensive presence/attitude will cost soft goals.

His one remaining weapon is playing wide, getting in space and then hurting the opposition with his disposal. Surely he is not in our first three small forwards at this stage of his career????

Not in my starting line up obviously.

[Dappa Dan 2,188]

I understand where your're coming from but I firmly believe there will be a NEW Adem Yze under Dean Bailey. One who chases and puts pressure on his defensive opponents.

The ONLY thing in his favour, as you say, is a new coach. The only thing I can think of is that he may be inspired by a new message from a new voice. Maybe Yze, all along, was the kind of player that would only excel with a coach willing to force his face into the grindstone with his heel... Daniher sang his praises over and over, and after a few stellar games in which he was regarded throughout the league as a star, he knew that regardless of poor performances, Daniher was never going to drop him.

I respect your opinion, and I hope you're right, but my heart tells me it will not end as positively as you say. Sometimes a player has a bad season or two, and you begin to want to write them off, a la Miller. Your heart keeps a faint hope, but in the end you know the footballing gods must have their sacrifices. With Yze, he hasn't had one or two below par seasons, he's had about 5. This is the defining factor in my pessimism.

Though I will say that since the announcement of his rejoining the leadership group, I would imagine the Dean will play him as often as possible. In so far as that is concerned, I was likely wrong.

I am confident Bailey will enforce team rules alot better than his predecessor.

Why? I have only so far heard words. If we're 2 - 8, or 0 - 9 again, and Yze is widely blamed or criticised, or even scapegoated for our losses like he was last year, I'm sure Bailey would feel the pressure and may, as a new coach, wish to drop him. He's all bluster so far, and unlike many others I will judge him on his actions and results alone.

That said... again... I hope your confidence is rewarded, and I admire your positivity.

Carroll is incapable of shutting down the better forwards in the AFL. Is that disparaging enough for you?

Like who? You mean Pavlich/Brown? When was the last time a former rookie stopped either of them? Carroll is certainly capable of stopping them. He's stopped MANY of these better forwards. I'm going to go ahead and assume you're referring to his 2007 in which he had NO help. His 2006 was impressive to say the least.

Take, for example, Glass. He (up until recently) was surrounded by a very good defence, with strong, skilled and smart support in both the tall and small variety, as well as a midfield and ruckman that have maintained periods of being untouchable.

Glass is a better player than Carroll, but I reckon even he would have struggled if he played in the red and blue in Nathan's place last year. With defenders like Ward and Brown, who though they were admirable, weren't the most accountable players. With Holland fighting admirably but with zero pace, and with his counterpart in Rivers in the stands, and with only Bell showing some real resistance for long periods, he was up against it. When he was at his best, Carroll had his man cramped for space, with short leads, and found himself marking and spoiling easily. With our lack of decent players he had none of these luxuries.

Unlike much of the crystal-ball gazing that goes on here I have a full season of good form from Carroll to substantiate my arguement that he's an important player in the side. I don't think he'll take any huge new steps, but I'm confident he'll do all that can be done within reason to get the job done, and what more can you ask? Other than 3 KP defenders taken in the first round of the superdraft.