Almost as funny as your hate of Bizzell.

I never hated Bizzell, I was just realistic about his limitations. You saw that as hatred when in fact, it was far from it.

I certainly never started threads to sling crap at him.

Hatred: ha·tred –noun the feeling of one who hates; intense dislike or extreme aversion or hostility.

—Synonyms animosity, detestation, loathing, abomination.

—Antonyms attraction, love.

It seems like we're all content with a crap couple of years then, if we're offloading our best player for an 18 year old punt.

I honestly thought 2008, we'd fight back hard with a much healthier year and get a full year out of TJ, Green and Bruce (our rolls royce department).

Oh well, youth policy it is then. Will let the Lions enjoy the spoils (and pay them half his contract). Aren't we generous patient chappies at the Dees! Bell's due to have his first solid season in 6 years, while Mr Pick 14 is due for his first solid season in 2012.

PS - Why couldn't the Dees be hard-arses at the table and demand Sherman and pick 14, or even Sherman and second round draft pick. I know they wanted to get rid of TJ, but they could've gotten more out of it.

BBP...you need to read between the lines of the Jonno deal.

Basically Bailey ( my view only ) wanted rid of trapper. he sees who's at all interested. Brisbane is.. but not that much they'd lose a player and a pick.. especially as they want to retain brennan. They see trapper worth a punt at a pick only. THATS ALL WE WERE EVER GOING TO GET !! Playing 'hard ball" might have derailed the process not enhanced it.

The goal was to get 'something' for TJ..and we did.. and thats all !!

PS - Why couldn't the Dees be hard-arses at the table and demand Sherman and pick 14, or even Sherman and second round draft pick. I know they wanted to get rid of TJ, but they could've gotten more out of it.

Firstly, that's an unreasonable demand they would not have paid. Secondly, how do you know they didn't ask for more anyway? It may well be that it was the hard-arsed approach that meant they DID landed pick 14, not the other way around.

Edit: Well put BB59

if we're offloading our best player

A player who hasn't featured in the top 10 of our B&F for the past two years - that mus be some new definition of "best" which I am unfamiliar with ...

It seems like we're all content with a crap couple of years then..............

I honestly thought 2008, we'd fight back hard with a much healthier year and get a full year out of TJ, Green and Bruce (our rolls royce department).

Green, Bruce played near full years are not going to be the only key drivers to that rebound. If they are rolls royce, do you want to buy my car?

Oh well, youth policy it is then. Will let the Lions enjoy the spoils (and pay them half his contract). Aren't we generous patient chappies at the Dees! Bell's due to have his first solid season in 6 years, while Mr Pick 14 is due for his first solid season in 2012.

TJ has got two years of AFL left before his gameboy batteries go. FWIW, the spoils are few and far between with TJ. Altough you seemed flush with them.

PS - Why couldn't the Dees be hard-arses at the table and demand Sherman and pick 14, or even Sherman and second round draft pick. I know they wanted to get rid of TJ, but they could've gotten more out of it.

Because it was not on the table from Brisbane. There were no other bidders. You can demand all you want but they were only going to give up the pick they got for Wood. If we did not deal on TJ this year, what would you have done next year, resign him at $400k a year or let him walk to the PSD?

A player who hasn't featured in the top 10 of our B&F for the past two years - that mus be some new definition of "best" which I am unfamiliar with ...

Changing the subject a little,

As of today who is our number 1 ranked player?

So Maurie, Old, Rhino, Nasher and BB59, are you guys all content with the trade?

When I clear my head, I can actually see the merit in the trade. However I believe we should've got more out of it.

When I clear my head, I can actually see the merit in the trade. However I believe we should've got more out of it.

You believe that because you don't know why we got rid of him.

You believe that because you don't know why we got rid of him.

Well just the MFC's typical luck if he was a bad egg, and we had to get rid of him

So Maurie, Old, Rhino, Nasher and BB59, are you guys all content with the trade?

When I clear my head, I can actually see the merit in the trade. However I believe we should've got more out of it.

I understand you didn't address me BBP but the answer is yes.

Gerard Healy had class...Gary Hardemann had class...so did Robbie Flower...

But we need a team...we need a change.

I understand you didn't address me BBP but the answer is yes.

Gerard Healy had class...Gary Hardemann had class...so did Robbie Flower...

But we need a team...we need a change.

Sorry mate, I missed you in the debate!

So Maurie ... are you ... content with the trade?

Yes. Here's what I sent to the club in support in respect of some of the vitriol the club was apparently receiving about trading him.

"As a Melbourne member, I just wanted to give my support for your decision to trade Travis Johnstone. Although I very much enjoyed watching Travis play over the years and am sorry in a way to see him go, I can appreciate that trading and drafting is a long-term process and we need to keep sight of the bigger picture. The focus on youth will stand us in good stead in the long run, and I am excited by our developing young talent pool. We needed desperately to renew the list while still keeping the promising and upcoming talent, and the post-season list management has been decisive. Here's hoping we snare more good young talent in the draft, especially with pick 14!"

Hope that explains my position.

When I clear my head, I can actually see the merit in the trade. However I believe we should've got more out of it.

You can only take what you are offered. If you don't think it's enough, you decline the trade. I think Pick 14 in the circumstances was thereabouts for TJ, given the position we'd find ourselves in next year if we didn't do it (contract up, faced with renewal, TJ could potentially walk straight into the PSD). I'm also happy with the "culture" issue.

Remember that TJ was still under contract and he agreed, despite the fact that it felt like "leaving home" to him. Maybe he could see the benefits of getting outside his own comfort zone too.

Bit off the topic of Miller.

Yes. Here's what I sent to the club in support in respect of some of the vitriol the club was apparently receiving about trading him.

"As a Melbourne member, I just wanted to give my support for your decision to trade Travis Johnstone. Although I very much enjoyed watching Travis play over the years and am sorry in a way to see him go, I can appreciate that trading and drafting is a long-term process and we need to keep sight of the bigger picture. The focus on youth will stand us in good stead in the long run, and I am excited by our developing young talent pool. We needed desperately to renew the list while still keeping the promising and upcoming talent, and the post-season list management has been decisive. Here's hoping we snare more good young talent in the draft, especially with pick 14!"

Thanks for sharing that E-mail. They probably would not have received too many other supportive letters. Good stuff!

Sorry mate, I missed you in the debate!

Thats alright. I haven't been posting for quite sometime.

I totally understand where you are coming from with your initial argument. I felt like that too as soon as I heard about the trade but i think its for the best.

what sort of confidence would the likes of Ferguson, ward or Godfrey have when a guy like miller is kept on the list instead of them?

No way will they be able to recover from that.

Miller is hands down the worst player on our list, including our rookie list. Why is has got another chance and contract I do not know. He has no leadership potential because he has no potential of being able to play afl or even vfl standard football. He is consistent, but consistent at a very very low level. He has consistently shown that he doesn't have what it takes to kick goals as a forward, despite what role given to him, as even backs kick more goals than he does.

The reality is miller did have trade value and we turned it down. a silly decision. A 192cm frame with a weight of over 90kg sounds enticing for a CHF but i would much prefer a Yao Ming in a wheel chair who satisfies both of these credentials. If Miller has 5 more years of playing days than that is when this club can start to act seriously about winning a flag.

The fact that Dunn and Newton were slow-played due to the likes of Miller is like playing me in the back pocket for the crows and snuffing out Andrew Mcleod to play in the reserves.

If Miller stays, than they all should stay. Miller staying at the club should act as a precedent for all of the other players on the list. If miller stays, than they all should have stayed.

Miller has more upside than Ferguson, Ward & Godfrey combined. Seems Bailey has a plan for him and I look forward to seeing him re-emerge with the confidence and hardness of a couple of years ago

Miller played 16 matches last season.

Here are 12 of those 16 matches:

r1: 10 touches

r6, 3 touches

r7, 10 touches

r8: 8 touches

r9: 12 touches

r14: 11 touches

r15: 9 touches

r 16: 13 touches

r17:10 touches

r18: 9 touches

r21: 10 touches

r22: 13 touches

POTENTIAL!!!

No1 here as even put forward a logical argument for keeping Miller. I heard that he played 1 good game in the vfl, i've heard that he has played the odd good game at afl..but every sinlge player that has played the amount of games that Miller has played and had his amount of opportunities would have played a few good games atleast.

Call Dean Bailey, either he'll give you a logical argument for keeping Miller, or slam the phone in your face.

Either way, Bailey > Supporters who hate Miller

Many of us here are confounded by Millers ability to avoid the axe whilst failing to deliver on all his 'potential'. But is matters not...he'll go around again and will apparently benefit from some insightful re-jigging...or not !! We'll either be gobsmacked by this kid or again revisit this spot in under a year shakig our head. I am going to have to defer all disbelief to the knowledge of our coach , for now.

Nothig we do wil make a difference, lets hope Bails can manage something that creates one in Frosty!! Time will tell.

Either way, Bailey > Supporters who hate Miller

I love when people use this sort of argument.

Don't get me wrong, I've got nothing against Bailey but it's like saying that George Bush > people who didn't want to go to war in Iraq.

Or even worse, Daniher > supporters who didn't want Melbourne to bring in "run and carry".

Let's be honest, Bailey has got one hell of a challenge ahead of him with Miller. Good luck to him.

EDIT: I just had a quick read of the "Meet the coach" on the MFC website and it seems that Bailey is excited about Miller. He sees him playing forward and back.

Time will tell.

This is from the interview on melbournefc.com.au:

On Brad Miller, do you prefer him as a forward or defender?

DB: Both. He has to be able to play at both ends of the ground. It's as simple as that. Over the pre-season we'll get him up to that level where he can play back or forward. Players need to have versatility at that size these days – at 190 to 194cm. It adds another dimension to their game and I think Brad's got that.

NO! NO! NO! I can't believe that there is still this mindset!. He says a player of this size MUST have the versatility but what happens if it is clearly evident that this certain player DOES NOT have the versatility to do this!

Essentially what DB is saying is that he is either going to perform at both ends of the park or he is going to get the arse.

I love when people use this sort of argument.

Don't get me wrong, I've got nothing against Bailey but it's like saying that George Bush > people who didn't want to go to war in Iraq.

Or even worse, Daniher > supporters who didn't want Melbourne to bring in "run and carry".

Let's be honest, Bailey has got one hell of a challenge ahead of him with Miller. Good luck to him.

EDIT: I just had a quick read of the "Meet the coach" on the MFC website and it seems that Bailey is excited about Miller. He sees him playing forward and back.

Time will tell.

I'm sick and tired of the abuse that Miller is copping.

He's a listed player at Melbourne and will be part of the club in 2008. Fair enough if you don't think he's a great player, fair enough if you don't see him as best 22 material, but how about we just let things happen and see what Bailey can do with him?

There is a reason he kept Miller, and a reason he kept Jamar, and a reason he kept CJ.

Frankly, I'll follow his opinion over that of a fan who has been obsessed with throwing abuse at Miller at every given opportunity. This is not an isolated incident and you know that, because you've been around long enough and you've seen the sort of [censored] that people post in regards to a MELBOURNE player.

There's criticism, then there is just plain abuse.

So I say to him what I said to you, get over it!

I'm sick and tired of the abuse that Miller is copping.

He's a listed player at Melbourne and will be part of the club in 2008. Fair enough if you don't think he's a great player, fair enough if you don't see him as best 22 material, but how about we just let things happen and see what Bailey can do with him?

There is a reason he kept Miller, and a reason he kept Jamar, and a reason he kept CJ.

Frankly, I'll follow his opinion over that of a fan who has been obsessed with throwing abuse at Miller at every given opportunity. This is not an isolated incident and you know that, because you've been around long enough and you've seen the sort of [censored] that people post in regards to a MELBOURNE player.

There's criticism, then there is just plain abuse.

So I say to him what I said to you, get over it!

Agreed.

but in the plain cold light of day the question has to be asked would blokes like Miller, Jamar and co. be in Geelong's best 22?

Not likely.

This is from the interview on melbournefc.com.au:

On Brad Miller, do you prefer him as a forward or defender?

DB: Both. He has to be able to play at both ends of the ground. It's as simple as that. Over the pre-season we'll get him up to that level where he can play back or forward. Players need to have versatility at that size these days – at 190 to 194cm. It adds another dimension to their game and I think Brad's got that.

NO! NO! NO! I can't believe that there is still this mindset!. He says a player of this size MUST have the versatility but what happens if it is clearly evident that this certain player DOES NOT have the versatility to do this!

Essentially what DB is saying is that he is either going to perform at both ends of the park or he is going to get the arse.

Bailey's answer is absolutely correct. If Miller is to survive at AFL level he needs to play at both ends of the ground. Frankly I think he struggles at both.

Given the teams and AFLs lack of good KPPs, Bailey is giving the chance to perform. If he does not perform he is out.

Its alot more realistic about Miller than all the milksops who have whinged that he just needs the confidence or the hardness to perform. So far he hasn't.

He needs to perform now. Maurie Lithen made a good analogy about people finding flecks of gold in an old mine and continue talking up its prospects without it every look like delivering.

I hope Bailey is right. From what I have seen of Miller, Bailey is hoping (praying) for some upside with Miller. I wish him luck.