Steve Harris on next season

[Guest bWell]

Byron was okay on Saturday night but a "clinic"? Some people are easily pleased.

Bode is 183cm, Whelan is 180cm and Pickett is 179cm. I would have though 6 foot is a good height for a small defender. Wheels certainly does alright at 5' 11"

Yeah I read that too but at the game on Saturday night, Bode was MUCH shorter than Brown so I think there's an error in there somewhere...........

[Rogue 585]

Was there Sat night though & saw Byron put on a clinic

What was this - Pickett a bit of a pool shark and showed a few guys how to pot some balls after the game?

He played a decent game of footy, but it certainly wasn't 'a clinic' by any stretch.

Yes. Or more. Bode's been great for Sandi but I don't think he'll shine in the AFL against a hardnosed forwardline.

Garland will be kept - But only for a year. And I guarantee, he will not play in 2009. Not enough skill. Sorry.

Why won't Bode make it? Simply because of his height, or have you seen him play at Sandy (despite being pretty dismissive of the idea of watching "the 2s" earlier in the thread)? Don't tell me you're basing it all on what you saw on Saturday night.

Can people start to get real and realize that we have to make significant changes at years end, and the first line of culling will come from our depth old players.

Well said.

[Redleg 40,773]

Brown and Ward are gone.

One of Bizzell or Holland will get a one year contract, and I hope it's Dutchy as he's more versatile.

Yze will stay, not a chance in hell he's letting go of that one year he's got left. That means Byron is gone, unless Sheedy is somehow involved with the club.

Those under 30 who are gone: one of Ferguson or Warnock, Neville, and possibly one of Miller/CJ/Jamar (traded, not delisted).

Bode will be officially elevated, and Neaves should be too.

That leaves us with at least 6 players gone, plus at least one rookie elevation, plus hopefully one trade.

All in all, if we can get 5 or 6 picks in the draft this year, that would be a good result.

I think Warnock would be in trouble and Miller and Jamar are tradeable. Byron will stay if attitude right, on a one year contract under a new coach. Godfrey gone. Agree with the rest.

[Demons 32 235]

How would you know what Sheedy wanted?

And does not that damn your argument that Pickett requires someone else to motivate him when he cant motivate himself beyond his Club XVIII demenour?

Well considering Sheedys known love for 3 things.

Attempting to revive careers. One example: Campreale.

Aboriginal players:

Ryder, Davey, Cole, Jetta, Lovett, Lovett Murray (he once said you would be stupid to drop one of those boys)

Like Daniher, plays favourites. Considering his favourites are players he can revive and aboriginals. Id say he is pretty safe.

[Rhino Richards 1,467]

Well considering Sheedys known love for 3 things.

Attempting to revive careers. One example: Campreale.

Aboriginal players:

Ryder, Davey, Cole, Jetta, Lovett, Lovett Murray (he once said you would be stupid to drop one of those boys)

Like Daniher, plays favourites. Considering his favourites are players he can revive and aboriginals. Id say he is pretty safe.

Sheedy likes good footballers regardless of generalisations and characterisations about race. He like any coach likes to get players cheap and is prepared to use cellar dweller and PSD picks to get them. Some work some dont. Camporeale did not work. Neither did Cole. Neither did he with Dean Rioli.

I dont think your generalisations bare logic to why Sheedy would want a player who cant motivate himself to play let alone fit regardless of his skin colour.

[mauriesy 7,212]

Yeah I read that too but at the game on Saturday night, Bode was MUCH shorter than Brown so I think there's an error in there somewhere ...

Geez, so what appears to you to be the case is right and the official stats are wrong? Since when is the old 6-foot mark "short"?

According to the Melbourne 2007 Almanac, Bode (183cm) is taller than any of:

Bartram (181)

Brown (180)

Davey (177)

Jones (179)

McDonald (180)

Moloney (181)

Pickett (178)

Whelan (180)

He is the same height as Travis Johnstone, and only a centimetre shorter than McLean, Godfrey and Green (all 184). Hardly an argument to be de-listed for being on the "short side".

Then again ... Pickett is a midget, get rid of him!

[Demons 32 235]

Sheedy likes good footballers regardless of generalisations and characterisations about race. He like any coach likes to get players cheap and is prepared to use cellar dweller and PSD picks to get them. Some work some dont. Camporeale did not work. Neither did Cole. Neither did he with Dean Rioli.

I dont think your generalisations bare logic to why Sheedy would want a player who cant motivate himself to play let alone fit regardless of his skin colour.

Ok I didn't mention skin colour. Im lost to why you would bring up skin colour. The Aboriginal culture is that, a culture, a large group of People with history. I did not mean a skin colour and did not mention the skin colour once!

Saying he likes aboriginal players. He likes the way they play, the speed, the ruthlessness.

And if he was willing to give Cole and Rioli a go why wouldn't you think he would give a 2 time premiership player and Norm Smith Medallist a 2nd chance. MY GOD RHINO!!!!

You have offended me and I would assume a few others. I do not even want to be a part of this conversation anymore. THINK ABOUT WHAT YOUR SAYING!!

You keep having a go at other people opinions and assumptions saying all your little how do you knows.....

WELL HOW THE HELL DO YOU KNOW PEOPLE AREN'T RIGHT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[QueenC 74]

WE have too many depth playas. They need to be cut 6 of these depth playas.

Bizzell, Brown, Ferguson, Godfrey, CJ, Miller, Neville, Ward, Warnock, Wheatley, Pickett, Holland.

Bizzell's gone. Dropped when he wasn't playing bad doesn't bode well.

Brown's gone. Sorry.

Ferguson gone. I know Rhino doesn't agree but IMO MFC are playing him in hope someone will trade for him. Has played pretty good so far. Why else would Ferg be playing? Rhino.

Neville gone.

Holland/Warnock? One will go

Wheatley. Safe barring trade.

Pickett. ?. The ball's in his court. He needs to make a convincing case.

Ward/Godfrey/CJ. One, prob 2 will go.

Miller. ?. Trade or keep. Will be on a AFL list only for the pure fact his KPP.

Congrats Jacey, I agree with you, as that, to me, is the most logical and common sense assessment of what we need to do........

(although I think that Pickett is in a touch more trouble than that, given his total lack of commitment to everything this year. A poor attitude is a killer to me)

Of course age isn't the only factor going into all of this, but if you think that it won't be a huge influence on who stays and who goes then you are kidding yourself.

The kids on our list, we hope will have a far greater up side in the coming years than watching the same folk, no matter how loyal their service to the club has been (and that is why I hate this time of year) going around again and again. There is no denying their contribution, but that is diminished with every passing year.

So we have to play the younger members of our list to find out just how much they can give. The club cannot and should not be getting rid of kids who could prove valuable in the very important next five years. Those years where we hope we can be a legitimate Premiership contender.

Some say that these kids will not be able to help us with that, but the reality is that neither have the current crop so the future is where we have to turn.

I am not saying that all our older players should be thrown away like yesterdays garbage (in fact none of them should) but we have to make some room to find the best set of players we can to build our long term future around. Of course all of this is a risk, but that plays against the potential reward.

Garland, Bode and the like should therefore be allowed to show that they can make an impact at AFL level.

And the thought of delisting them because they haven't yet set the world on fire in a collective of three or four games is staggering, and massively preemptive because we haven't yet had a real chance to see what they could be capable of and they haven't had a chance to grow into the level that will be required of them.

They and the club deserve and need the time to see if they are capable of being what we want them to become.

[Rhino Richards 1,467]

Ferguson gone. I know Rhino doesn't agree but IMO MFC are playing him in hope someone will trade for him. Has played pretty good so far. Why else would Ferg be playing? Rhino.

Exploit the lack of height in the Bullies.

Determine whether between Miller, Bizz, Holland and Ferg as to who should go. I think he should go. I think its unlikely another team will identify any trade value in a NQR player in a bottom side. I think other teams are far smarter than that.

[Rhino Richards 1,467]

.......

I dont think Pickett's background has anything to do with what Sheedy would do if he coached Melb. And again it is a generalisation that if he was appointed that he would do anything of the sort with a player who has poor attitude and motivation record at three clubs now

I did not abuse you and only stated an opinion based on logically arguing the point.

I also dont find typing in upper case conducive to sensible debate.

Thanks for the hyberbole anyway.

[sylvinator 96]

important post! read on!

IMO it's very obvious that there are 2 schools of thought of this subject...

1) there are those who no longer accept mediocrity. Coming 5-8th is ok, but if you're not a serious premiership contender then what is the point. These people would prefer to see the young developing players in the seniors ahead of Brown, Ward, Pickett etc, even if Brown can contribute more than Garland. This is because these 30+yrold depth players i mentioned are going to retire anyways within 1-2 yrs and we are no chance of a premiership in that time frame. so why the fark should they get precedence.

It is all about developing a list that will eventually win a premiership. This means that Pickett, Brown, Ward, Bizzel should be played this season as depth only, and most should be forced retired at years end so that our list can resemble a list with 9 30+ players.

Developing a premiership list is the main goal, bc after 43 years of no premierships, anything less is no longer acceptable. the years where we cannot win the premiership, should be focussed of developing our future stars, and NOT for delaying the careers of our depth mediocre 30 somethings!!!

2) The second group is one i understand, yet am frustrated with. They would prefer to see some entertaining victories every season, so that they get their moneys worth on their membership. Dont get me wrong, i enjoyed last season much more than this year when we hardly win. I understand this group of people completely However, they are not willing to sacrifise a little bit of risk and hardship (which comes with playing developing youngsters ahead of Pickett and Brown) in order for long term gain. Guys we havnt won a premiership for 43 years! isnt it time that we decided, as supporters together, that we will no longer accept less than a clear plan to create a premiership list.

Unfortunately, the people who advocate we keep all our old depth players, perhaps without even realising it, are telling MFC that they prefer us to be regularly competative than to finally achieve greatness.

People! look at Geelongs list. they have 1 player over 30, his name is Milburn and he is an absolute gun. they have finally developed a list that is premiership material.

Honestly can't people see that something is wrong when we are nowhere near a premiership and yet we have the oldest list in the afl!

and some people (bwell and co) actually making petitions for MFC to keep the Pickets, Browns, Wards, Bizzels and co of our list.

Dont get me wrong i love pickett as much as anyone else. at his best he is exciting. But enough is enough. he is definitely going to retire in the next 2 seasons. he is DEPTH. therefore he must go!

8 players to be delisted at years end imo:

Neville, Pickett, Brown (retired), Bizzel (forced retired), Warnock, Miller (traded for anything), Jamar (traded for anything), Ward

depth in 2008: Ferguson, Holland, C.Johnson, Yze, Godfrey

at years end: 5-6 draftees, 1 rookie elevation, 1 PSD, 1 trade maybe

[Demons 32 235]

Im writing here because of something I heard when another post was cancelled.

Im sure new posters wouldn't be so mad if veterans showed the smallest margin of respect to other new peoples opinion instead of bagging out together just because they are mates.

It's not fair and im extrememly angry that newbies keep getting in trouble for their opinions. The worst thing is, I have yet to see anyone come out and talk down at a veteran, it isn't fair.

New people are ganged up on. This place is extremely condoscending .

I have gone from freshed faced excitment of this really great forum where I could read opinions, ask questions, see if people agree with me. Give my voice a, well, voice. Now its complete distain and shock by how anyone who has been a part of this since 05 has treated everyone who is new. I have seen 7 different new members give their opinion and everytime the same few shut them down. All from 05. Fora group of people who boast Togetherness and fan forums of getting your opinion heard. So says the code of conduct. There is little if any respect shown to new members on replies ever!

I know this will be cancelled and I will most def have someone get mad at me about it but I just really want at least one person to see how I feel.

I do not believe it is fair how these 7 people, including myself have been treated. My main example of this was someone earlier today wrote about someone new to a friend "they just keep getting dumber". I also saw writing about skin colour when I made a comment about aboriginal players. This offended me greatly and I have never been more turned off toward a supporter base and I just hope my children never find their young minds onto a website like this.

[Guest bWell]

Im writing here because of something I heard when another post was cancelled.

Im sure new posters wouldn't be so mad if veterans showed the smallest margin of respect to other new peoples opinion instead of bagging out together just because they are mates.

It's not fair and im extrememly angry that newbies keep getting in trouble for their opinions. The worst thing is, I have yet to see anyone come out and talk down at a veteran, it isn't fair.

New people are ganged up on. This place is extremely condoscending .

I have gone from freshed faced excitment of this really great forum where I could read opinions, ask questions, see if people agree with me. Give my voice a, well, voice. Now its complete distain and shock by how anyone who has been a part of this since 05 has treated everyone who is new. I have seen 7 different new members give their opinion and everytime the same few shut them down. All from 05. Fora group of people who boast Togetherness and fan forums of getting your opinion heard. So says the code of conduct. There is little if any respect shown to new members on replies ever!

I know this will be cancelled and I will most def have someone get mad at me about it but I just really want at least one person to see how I feel.

I do not believe it is fair how these 7 people, including myself have been treated. My main example of this was someone earlier today wrote about someone new to a friend "they just keep getting dumber". I also saw writing about skin colour when I made a comment about aboriginal players. This offended me greatly and I have never been more turned off toward a supporter base and I just hope my children never find their young minds onto a website like this.

I agree with you.

I also was excited when I first joined.

Some of you may have seen things I have written that ok yes not that great but this is due to people putting my opinions down.

I also think the monitors abuse their power. It's not right that we're the one's that are getting in strife.

All I've tried to do is give my opinions but when people constantly give 'put downs' etc. it is very difficult not to get angry.

Everyone thinks they're someone here.

Shouldn't it be about 'fair play' for everyone?

Not just for those with 1,000 plus posts.

[mauriesy 7,212]

New people are ganged up on. This place is extremely condescending.

This is an internet discussion forum. Although we all have one thing on common -- a love for the Demons -- and while the discussion needs to be civil (and is moderated to keep it so) it is a place where you put your views and at the same time recognise they will be challenged. It's not a "flame fest" or a "love fest" ... you just need to be able to argue for your point of view in a logical manner, with some sort of research or facts to back your opinion. If you come out half-cocked, you'll often get shot down in flames and rightly so. Sometimes we all just need to agree to disagree. I'm sorry ... that's just the way it is.

To me it's a learning experience. I can get shown up to be wrong and will revise my point of view. Sometimes I even end up looking stupid. And sometimes I can teach other people something.

Regardless ... I never take it personally, and it doesn't form so much of a part of my life that I lose sleep over what someone said or the arguments I lose or win.

[Goodvibes 3,596]

8 seems like a reasonable number to de-list. For me, it's best understood in these terms:

Brown seems likely to retire and Neville seems a be a certainty to go, therefore, 6 more will be cut:

2 of Godfrey, Ward, C Johnson will be in trouble;

3 of Holland, Ferguson, Warnock, Miller, Wheatley and Bizzell;

If Neaves is promoted, 1 of P Johnson and Jamar looks to be on the outer. If this is the case, we'll look to trade the ruckman on the outer but I'd be surprised if there was any interest. The same could be said of Miller in the category above.

That leaves one position and as much as I enjoy seeing Pickett when on song, we can't be seen as a club that condones the type of behaviour exhibited by him during this year. He must go.

In summary Neville and Brown seem certain to leave and I'd delist Ward and Godfrey and give C Johnson one more year under a new coach. I'd keep Holland, Wheatley and Miller and delist Bizzell, Warnock and Ferguson. In the ruck department, it's almost toss of the coin material. If Neaves is good enough (and I haven't seen enough of him to be certain) then I'd promote him and keep PJ.

I'd try hard to trade the likes of Miller, Ferguson and Jamar but realistically think Miller is the only one with a little currency. Yze, Robbo, Green and Bruce are all on the table for the right price if I was Craig Cameron come trade week. TJ for mine is a keeper unless something special is offered.

Whilst you can never categorically state player X is not for trade, I would be reluctant to see the following core youngsters leave - McLean, Sylvia, Jones, Rivers, Bell, Moloney, Bate, Petterd, Batram, Dunn, Newton, Frawley and Garland.

[Guest fatty]

I do not believe it is fair how these 7 people, including myself have been treated. My main example of this was someone earlier today wrote about someone new to a friend "they just keep getting dumber". I also saw writing about skin colour when I made a comment about aboriginal players. This offended me greatly and I have never been more turned off toward a supporter base and I just hope my children never find their young minds onto a website like this.

These two threads are a riot.

My views on RR (if that’s who you’re referring to) fluctuate between “confronting” to “schoolyard bully”. However, I’m not precious enough to think that he actually gives a stuff what I think of him. If it annoys you, don’t engage. Others enjoy the battle.

But if you’re offended by those skin colour comments made by an anonymous poster on an internet chat site, then you do have a lot to learn. They are in no way racist – if that’s what is troubling you.

And just to make it clear, none of the above is intended to be condescending in any way, shape or form.

Stick around. Its entertaining at the very least.

BTW, I’ve been posting here since 2006 and I’m still considered dumb!!! ;>

[Demons 32 235]

These two threads are a riot.

My views on RR (if that’s who you’re referring to) fluctuate between “confronting” to “schoolyard bully”. However, I’m not precious enough to think that he actually gives a stuff what I think of him. If it annoys you, don’t engage. Others enjoy the battle.

But if you’re offended by those skin colour comments made by an anonymous poster on an internet chat site, then you do have a lot to learn. They are in no way racist – if that’s what is troubling you.

And just to make it clear, none of the above is intended to be condescending in any way, shape or form.

Stick around. Its entertaining at the very least.

BTW, I’ve been posting here since 2006 and I’m still considered dumb!!! ;>

I was offended because he acted as if I was racist for saying aborignal players. I was offended because he countered with convo of how I spoke of skin colour. And as a person with aboriginal background. I was very offended. If you want to challenge why I feel about it. Go ahead.

[sylvinator 96]

if ppl want to speak about they are offended, or how they arent treated fairly by certain people, then why dont they create a topic where they can bash eachother every minute of every day without ruining discussions for people who want to talk footy. this thread is about which +30 players will be kept and who wont be here next season! keep it that way. if you dont have an opinion on that subject, then go to a different forum, or create a new topic - "let's insult stir and insult eachother"

[Demons 32 235]

if ppl want to speak about they are offended, or how they arent treated fairly by certain people, then why dont they create a topic where they can bash eachother every minute of every day without ruining discussions for people who want to talk footy. this thread is about which +30 players will be kept and who wont be here next season! keep it that way. if you dont have an opinion on that subject, then go to a different forum, or create a new topic - "let's insult stir and insult eachother"

Someone tried yesterday. I saw it quickly got pulled down. It was called argument forum.

moderators won't let it fair enough. Im racially offended. ITS a BIG deal to me..... yet you wanna give me [censored], screw ya. Im very offended and it's my right to be. Im talking footy completely now, I dont wanna hear anymore comments about race from anyone ever again. When I say aboriginal, dont call it generalisations, or say something about skin colour. Its just as bad as generalising people.

If any of you have any idea how hard it is to be an indigineous man at the footy hearing the torment thrown at aboriginal players. you would be just as mad.

[Rogue 585]

I have noticed new members get attacked a little, but it's like joining any group; if you come in and make waves for the wrong reasons, people aren't going to be too receptive. I do find that how 'well known' you are tends to dictate how many replies etc you get - particularly when I was newer, I found I'd make a reply staying XYZ and no one would be interested in engaging. A page later someone might essentially make a carbon copy of my earlier reply, and people would start discussing XYZ. Cliques are everywhere.

I'd suggest people who are new to this - or any forum - lurk around the site a bit and actually read other people's comments and get a feel for the vibe. Some new posters tend to creating new threads on every MFC thing they've got in their heads because they've found an outlet. Chances are people here have already thought of these issues, and posted on them.

This is a humourous take on posting - http://www.albinoblacksheep.com/flash/posting

Some of you may have seen things I have written that ok yes not that great but this is due to people putting my opinions down.

...

All I've tried to do is give my opinions but when people constantly give 'put downs' etc. it is very difficult not to get angry.

Here's an anecdote: You posted up re: MFC fans needing to get to games, and I said you were probably preaching to the choir. You quoted my post and swore at how 'retarded' posters on here were ;o I saw another thread where you told people to 'quit their crying' because they objected to the idea of wishing a player was injured ;o

You have copped some flak from a few people, but if you acted like that when you'd just joined a circle of friends, new workplace, or whatever, you'd probably be excluded pretty quickly there too.

Anyhow, I don't think I 'play the man' - I certainly don't mean to. People should probably try and be more tolerant of the 'newbie' forum posters, but it's natural to get frustrated with some behaviours - particularly when they then become abusive etc.

[sylvinator 96]

This is a humourous take on posting - http://www.albinoblacksheep.com/flash/posting

lol, that's really funny

[Gorgoroth 12,910]

Some of the stuff i have seen shot down of late has been more or less due to the name calling and inability to accept another's point of view without getting angry about it and resorting to name calling.

[deanox 9,892]

...

good post because it sums it up well.

bwell in particular has done him/her self no favours by carrying on a bit around here. and the latest effort of playing the .everyone here is rude and stuck up' card wont help the cause.

what newer posters need to remember is that many of the topics you bring up have been thrashed out before and people have hear lots of arguments for both sides of a debate, this is why a quick shut down by some posters may seem aggressive or may seem to counter discussion.

posters also need to remember that just because you say something doesnt make it true. arguments that are illogical, invalid or just plain stupid reflect on the poster.

lines like these:

...Jamar will continue his progress to be the Melbourne FC number 1 ruckman...

...Ferguson...he is a very skillful tall. Not to mention he is still developing...

may be your personal opinions. but they are not the opinions of others. and unless you want to back them up with some facts are just gonna get you ridiculed. when someone comes and says 'you're dreaming' don't stamp your foot and say no im right, because your argument is the minority. use the forum as a chance to give some reliable evidence in a well constructed argument to get your point across.

when you are trying to convince people of an alternative point of view you need to be very succinct. and that is why ppl in this forum pick on poor spelling and grammar, it demonstrates that the poster probably isnt thinking all that hard about what they are writing.

if you don't like who exists on this forum you don't have to join us and post with us. don't whinge, don't sook. just go away and don't come back. start your own forum if you want. if you lift your game, you will find that this site has much to offer. so please, post reasonable thought out posts and one day you might be part of the mob that picks on the newbies.

[demonfanjezza 1]

Some of the stuff i have seen shot down of late has been more or less due to the name calling and inability to accept another's point of view without getting angry about it and resorting to name calling.

Yeah same i have noticed that, there is no need for that

[deanox 9,892]

This is a humourous take on posting - http://www.albinoblacksheep.com/flash/posting

is there a way to get this to be compulsory viewing for all new/existing demonland posters? there is wisdom in that file...