Brown - playing out time

Carroll - our only winner

Holland - gave his utmost

Ward - loose and uninterested

Bell - taught a lesson

Miller - devoid of passion

Buckley - out of depth

Moloney - obviously playing injured

Wheatley - many useless possessions

McDonald - age taking toll

Green - some classy touches

Davey - looking for holiday

Pckett - played with endeavour

Newton - hope on horizon

Ferguson - effective but unreliable

Jamar - just a plodder

White - had no impact

McLean - not a defender

Godfrey - too much responsibility

Bate - significant early injury

Neitz - an embarrassing liability

Jones - not as prolific

  joeboy said:

Brown - playing out time

Carroll - our only winner

Holland - gave his utmost

Ward - loose and uninterested

Bell - taught a lesson

Miller - devoid of passion

Buckley - out of depth

Moloney - obviously playing injured

Wheatley - many useless possessions

McDonald - age taking toll

Green - some classy touches

Davey - looking for holiday

Pckett - played with endeavour

Newton - hope on horizon

Ferguson - effective but unreliable

Jamar - just a plodder

White - had no impact

McLean - not a defender

Godfrey - too much responsibility

Bate - significant early injury

Neitz - an embarrassing liability

Jones - not as prolific

l thought Jones was ok and Miller as well plus l think Buckley will mature into a pretty good player

  joeboy said:

Brown - playing out time - bye bye

Carroll - our only winner - i agree

Holland - gave his utmost - our best in the first half

Ward - loose and uninterested - bye bye

Bell - taught a lesson - hard to be good when they run the ball in with no pressure

Miller - devoid of passion - is not a defender, showed a little in the last

Buckley - out of depth - did look it today

Moloney - obviously playing injured - i hope he is, not in great form

Wheatley - many useless possessions lots of touches but none that really hurt the opponents

McDonald - age taking toll - gave his all as always

Green - some classy touches - one of the best for us

Davey - looking for holiday - a mere shadow

Pckett - played with endeavour - has the penny dropped?

Newton - hope on horizon - second half was something to keep me watching

Ferguson - effective but unreliable - still does not offer enough

Jamar - just a plodder - bye bye

White - had no impact - yoda was beaten by luke

McLean - not a defender - agree, but fought his way back in the second half

Godfrey - too much responsibility - got slaughtered today

Bate - significant early injury

Neitz - an embarrassing liability - please don't pley your 300th this year

Jones - not as prolific - not his best today, but far from the worst

Comrades, I pretty much agree with JB.

On the Ben Dover Index, today was a 7.5 out of 10.

Biffinator, flatly.

Just got back from the ground, just my opinon

Brown - cant kick and hardly noticed(delist)

Carroll - solid defender given the ball raining in

Holland - say what u will but he has an honest crack

Ward - didnt realise a floater was a preferred passing method(delist)

Bell - not his best day but he is one for the future

Miller - i give up(trade if anyone will take him)

Buckley - in 5years will be a distant memory, early call but not sure he ll make it

Moloney - rest him

Wheatley - yep he can kick it long

McDonald - out muscled today with little help

Green - would benefit from a new coach identifying permanent role

Davey - little motivation

Pckett - seen better days, but deserved a beter 200

Newton - future KPP big men tke longer and he will be quality

Ferguson - LOL (delist)

Jamar - would make a good doorman(delist)

White - was dominated

McLean - slow road back but we know his class

Godfrey - Bartram will take his spot, thank god. always an honest effort

Bate - injured

Neitz - rest for 2008

Jones - our best this year, future star

Carroll- unfairly dropped last week

Still can't believe Riley send him to the VFL. He did a fantastic job on Hall today, especially given the lack of midfield pressure from Melbourne.

As far as I'm concerned, there is always room for him in our backline. He is a good mark, has reasonable pace, courage and is as tough as they come.

Ferguson, Ward, Brown, Jamar- Finished

Newton, Jones- shinning lights

McLean- learning good lessons

Jones is fast becoming the most over-rated player in AFL history - he can't kick, is accountable and is slow - saving grace is obviously his innate ability in crushes - realistically, he wouldn't get a regular game in many other sides - our team is in a serious state of decay, that needs season after season of top 5 picks to replenish it.

Boy I hope our new coach (hopefully Sheedy) brings somebody with him who can fix Moloney, it's getting beyond a joke.

I can't believe how much pressure we put on the opponent last year compared to this year - like night and day.

I am seriously disillusioned with the coaching right now, including the selection committee and the lack of conviction in assigning player roles. This is worse than 2003. We are rudderless and our list has never looked so bad.

  goodoil said:

Jones is fast becoming the most over-rated player in AFL history - he can't kick, is accountable and is slow - saving grace is obviously his innate ability in crushes - realistically, he wouldn't get a regular game in many other sides - our team is in a serious state of decay, that needs season after season of top 5 picks to replenish it.

He's 19 mate...

Unless I'm mistaken, there's a young kid who's played 300+ games for the Saints who can't kick, isn't fast and is regarded as an outside player. He seems to go alright.

Jones is still in development, and yet is playing whole games in the guts, and doing his part...

I'll take ANY player within his first 20 games doing what Jones has done. Perhaps he won't improve as much as we'd like, but I'd wager he will... And even if he doesn't become as good as Harvey, he WILL improve somewhat, and any failures he encounters along the way won't be for lack of effort...

But you go ahead and call him over-rated...

For all of you out there who are so worried about skill sets, not everything in football comes down to what you CAN do... for some it's about how much you want it. Bartram, Jones, McLean.... it's inside players like this that hold the future of a beleagured basket-case club in their hands... And for the first time in many years, we have a young core that's hungry.

Just got back from the game...player analysis....it was a comedy from start to finish!!!!! Why bother!!!

Jones, Holland and Newton were really the only 2 I noticed!

  goodoil said:

Jones is fast becoming the most over-rated player in AFL history - he can't kick, is accountable and is slow - saving grace is obviously his innate ability in crushes - realistically, he wouldn't get a regular game in many other sides - our team is in a serious state of decay, that needs season after season of top 5 picks to replenish it.

He's not a fashionable player, but every club needs a Jones.

Sydney have plenty (minus the unaccountability bit, which is a plague at the MFC).

Kicking is something that can be fixed in most cases. Also, many of his kicks are under pressure, we need to remember that.

I'll take the ever-reliable hard man who gets his hands on the footy and is on the bottom of every pack, over a fancy down-hill skier anyday. It speaks volumes of his character that he's out there trying his guts out every week when most around him are dreaming of their end of season holiday.

Dappa Dan, I think Scott West is another good example.

  timmy said:

Jones, Holland and Newton were really the only 2 I noticed!

I count 3

  Jaded said:

He's not a fashionable player, but every club needs a Jones.

Sydney have plenty (minus the unaccountability bit, which is a plague at the MFC).

Kicking is something that can be fixed in most cases. Also, many of his kicks are under pressure, we need to remember that.

I'll take the ever-reliable hard man who gets his hands on the footy and is on the bottom of every pack, over a fancy down-hill skier anyday. It speaks volumes of his character that he's out there trying his guts out every week when most around him are dreaming of their end of season holiday.

Dappa Dan, I think Scott West is another good example.

Actually kicking can't be corrected. It takes over 10,000 correct technical repititions to address ingrained kicking flaws and it is impossible to exercise this in a pressure cooker environment. It is one of the great fuphys that kicking can be improved...very rarely does this ever happen. We don't need a Jones, we already have McLean... we are a one-dimensional football club that has suffeered becuase of very streamlined recruiting goals...people carrying on about about a guy who cant kick getting 15 possessions a game - five of them, i'll admit, impressive pack clearances - is a bit silly...it's about time the club and supporters realise that Jones, Sylvia, Moloney are ordinary footballers.

  Jaded said:

Carroll- unfairly dropped last week

Still can't believe Riley send him to the VFL.

If you'd had your way 2 years ago Jaded, Carroll would have never played AFL again. Times change.

GoodOil - Jones is good. Very Good.

ffs the kid is only 19!! in a shitouse team like we are jones has been the shining light. we do need jones becoz mclean cant do it all on himself and he is a hard body and we NEED HARD BODYS!! Nathan Jones is an up and coming player of the future! he remins me of a sam mitchell greg williams type. and your saying we dont need him? thats a joke!! so then u must be saying Sam Mitchell is also very odinary and greg williams and these type of players?

  fatty said:

If you'd had your way 2 years ago Jaded, Carroll would have never played AFL again. Times change.

He was very very bad 2 years ago, and has improved out of sight.

I don't think I was alone in wanting him, or at the very least expecting him to be gone.

He is a good lesson in why young players need to be given as long as possible to develop. He showed close to nothing for a fair while, but they stuck with him and it paid off. I hope we do the same with CJ and Miller, and they can match Carroll's improvement.

Goodoil, we're not one-dimensional, we're one-paced, there's a difference. We need hard ball winners, and we need outsiders with pace.

We've got the ball winners area covered (when Junior retires, Jones will become even more important), now we need to improve the pace and skills. Sadly, most of our silky ball users are inconsistent.

Sylvia and Moloney both have a lot of time on their side to improve, following a long battle with OP. It's hard to dominate when you can't turn or run at full pace. It's a credit to Moloney that he is even playing at the moment, given he spent half the season on the sidelines.

Jones will never be a superstar, but he's got the strength and leadership (amongst other things) that we sorely lack.

Don't think you can hold it against Melbourne supporters for being excited by him. We have very little other enjoyment.

  dazzledavey36 said:

ffs the kid is only 19!! in a shitouse team like we are jones has been the shining light. we do need jones becoz mclean cant do it all on himself and he is a hard body and we NEED HARD BODYS!! Nathan Jones is an up and coming player of the future! he remins me of a sam mitchell greg williams type. and your saying we dont need him? thats a joke!! so then u must be saying Sam Mitchell is also very odinary and greg williams and these type of players?

Williams and Mitchell get the ball 30 times and always did - they also dont kick horrendous pie floaters they give it to their teammates constantly in better position - Im not saying he's bad, he's just an ordinary being made to look good by a very bad team...he wouldnt get a game at most clubs.

well he was touted a top 5 pick. so im guessing most clubs rate him and would love him at there club. i want to know wats ashs opinion on him being an essendon supporter

  goodoil said:

Actually kicking can't be corrected. It takes over 10,000 correct technical repititions to address ingrained kicking flaws and it is impossible to exercise this in a pressure cooker environment. It is one of the great fuphys that kicking can be improved...very rarely does this ever happen. We don't need a Jones, we already have McLean... we are a one-dimensional football club that has suffeered becuase of very streamlined recruiting goals...people carrying on about about a guy who cant kick getting 15 possessions a game - five of them, i'll admit, impressive pack clearances - is a bit silly...it's about time the club and supporters realise that Jones, Sylvia, Moloney are ordinary footballers.

So you're writing off Moloney who has only ever done one full preseason in his AFL career and is in his 5th season, and is obviously carrying an injury and still playing reasonably well at probably about 80% (And Gary Ablet Jnr is in his 6th this year and only now is performing consistently well), and a 2nd year player in Jones?

You're an idiot.

  dazzledavey36 said:

well he was touted a top 5 pick. so im guessing most clubs rate him and would love him at there club. i want to know wats ashs opinion on him being an essendon supporter

He wasnt touted as a top five pick at all, that rating was assigned by people, mostly ignoramuses, who had watched four games of under age football games for the year - the TAC Cup GF and the Under 18 championships

I opened this thread thinking "I hope Carroll was rated 'Our only winner'" and wasn't disappointed. Thanks Joeboy.

Didn't read the rest any of the others. Don't really care any more. Jeez this side marks it hard to stay interested.

  goodoil said:

I love it when know-it-alls get on this site and talk down the prospects of players that are just about UNIVERSALLY regarded as guns...

I look forward to hanging a world of the brown stuff on you hen you're proven wrong in the coming years. Sylvia and McLean ordinary?

If Jones and those two were at a different club with decent facilities, money, profile... they would be considered as much their future, and would have infinitely more help from their mates... West Coast and Sydney notwithstanding...

But you keep at it... Those blinkers fit nice and snug... I don't really think it bothers anyone that you can't open your eyes and look at the facts...

MFC fans like you make me want to puke.

  Jaded said:

He was very very bad 2 years ago

No he wasn't. He got pantsed twice by Kingsley in consecutive years but apart from that his form was quite good. You were calling for his head. Nicholson was the preferred FB at the time, but with limited opportunities, Carroll proved his worth.

Both Miller and CJ have had more than enough game time to show they're not up to it.

Carroll with Rivers/Whelan/Bell beside him form the base of a solid backline.

..........and Nathan Jones is Very Good.

  davey_magik said:

So you're writing off Moloney who has only ever done one full preseason in his AFL career and is in his 5th season, and is obviously carrying an injury and still playing reasonably well at probably about 80% (And Gary Ablet Jnr is in his 6th this year and only now is performing consistently well), and a 2nd year player in Jones?

You're an idiot.

Fact is the writing is on the wall with him because his groins are shagged. He's a useful player, but taking his injuries into account and the fact that he isnt particularly quick and is a very predicatble, kick it long player who can only play one position, I think it's fair to say he is only an ordinary unit on the list. I mean assuming we draft a quality midfielder and have McLean, Bruce, Green, TJ, Jones, McDonald and Sylvia, its a long bow to suggest Moloney is going to be an important player.

Jones is good at the scrimmages, but very dull in all other aspects of the game...Again, if I was trying to build a quality AFL team, I would be looking to more well-rounded players.

Fair go dapper, when have I ever knocked McLean? I watched Sylvia play 11 games for the Bendigo Pioneers in his Coaches Award-winning season and he was a better player then than he is now, he could kick longer, he could evade players and he spent a lot more time through the middle. Perhaps, that speaks a lot for the injuries and lack of preparation that have marred his AFL career, but in reality, his AFL output has been only OK...he hasnt been able to play much through the middle and you can hardly regard him as a gun! As for Jones, my point is that he needs a lot of work to be a gun footballer, and that he is being over-rated by a lot of people at the moment...maybe, he will be a gun, but as I say, he is a poor kick and he can only play one position. My views on Moloney are above. I dont think my views are blinkered, I think they are unbiased and methodical. If you can honestly say that Jones, Sylvia and Moloney are gun AFL footballers, you wont ever earn a cracker in the AFL industry.