Yeah, that a whole lot of other Melbourne- related issues

If we lose to Richmond tomorrow, the therapist will have to climb up LightTower 4 and try to stop me from jumping.

Doesnt LT4 have to approve that first? He normally posts on Ology!

am thinking that Danners will be reluctant to try anything too maverick whilst he deludes himslef that september beckons

No. I think Big Red has covered it well. If I recall correctly Newton had hardly performed at VFL level at that point.

Newton deserves a shot after his game today.

Based on their games to day, Newton and Buckley will get a run shortly without a doubt.

This was written the next day after the Sydney game, Round 5.

Great post Big Red and I share your view.

I just don't get it. Not you RR, more big red. If this is indeed the way we're supposed to go, then why play every other player, who's younger, when a KP forward was what was needed? If BRFE's model was the preferable option, then howcome Garland was played WELL before his time? 3 years is a long time NOT to get a game... especially when people around him are playing for MFC with less age, development, fitness, hardness, skill, form and achievements... We're going over old ground here again. There are those that believe there's a specific 3-4 year plan with him that should not be broken. Then there are those that want him played. I think there's a threshold here whereby if his form and work warrant a callup, you still hold him back, but only to a point. If he's doing all the right things and showing his capability, then the reasons NOT to play him pale to insignificance. The last of those, in my mind, evapourated this week. He's ALWAYS going to be under some threat to have a confidence-denting debut. Who's to say softly softly with this kid is the right way? The FD I guess... In the end, I see your point of view and I don't really care one way or the other since our season is shot. Oh, and BRFE, you are entitled to your opinion about his form, and I respect you for it. However I disagree wholeheartedly. Asking the guy to kick 6+ goals in the VFL before he gets his debut. How long will that take? We dn't want him to debut as the complete pllayer, he would STILL be a work in progress. What he brings to a game of footy would be useful in the senior ranks. I'm not asking him to REPLACE Neita. Just get in there and have a dip. It has to happen sometime.

No. I think Big Red has covered it well. If I recall correctly Newton had hardly performed at VFL level at that point.

Not trying to pick fault or anything RR (I know better than that ), but I think there's some legitimacy to CB's question there. I recall you were "off" Juice, so to speak. I had gone down about 4 weeks in a row to watch him play, had decided he was up to it, and you insisted his attitude, early in the year was deplorable. I was pleased to note some weeks later you made the trip, and upon returning to 'land you wrote words to the effect of Juice is ready, and should get his first crack as the next available opportunity. I remember it only because we had disagreed only days before, and I'd said that you were the final piece of the demonland puzzle to fall into place. You had been a firm critic, and had been won over... at the time it was pleasing to see.

I have a feeling it was around the game he had his first big haul. But honestly, sifting through threads would take most of my day. And I wouldn't expect you'd admit a contradiction anyway

Happy to be proven wrong by someone more tech-savvy though. Nasher to the rescue.

BIG RED SIGNING IN:

I am a massive Newton fan have seen him play 4 times this year including last weekend as well as numerous times last year. The kid is all talent but still looks immature of mind. He missed a goal from 20 metres out on a reasonable angle with a wet ball and you could see his mind was off the game for the next 10-15 minutes whilst he kept cajoling himself over the miss. I want to see the kid play for Melbourne more than I have looked forward to any debutant that I can recall in recent years but the timing is very important. The last thing you want is to bring him up too early, not get a kick and then dent his confidence at Sandy. The kid will play but lets make sure he also believes he is ready.

Interesting points BR, however I think he'd learn alot more quickly playing alongside someone like David Neitz compared to Sautner. Neitz commands respect from his teammates, and he lifts those around him. If what you say is true then his only issue is a mental one, the rest of his game is ready for AFL, so bring him in to learn from the best we have.

Playing him for Sandy is now a waste of time, he's not going to develop his game any further.

I just don't get it....

....Happy to be proven wrong by someone more tech-savvy though. Nasher to the rescue.

Great post Dappa, you summed everything up perfectly, in all future Newton threads we should provide a link to your post.

For some unknown reasons certain posters on this board have rules for Newton that don't seem to apply to any of the other players.

...............have rules for Newton that don't seem to apply to any of the other players.

This is the nub of the thing isn it...These supposed rules and guidelines...written somewhere in invisible ink only apparent to those of some secret but insightful society !!

Rules ..etc...what a lop of bollocks.. sheer common sense ought to prevail !! Can he play ? If a Yes..or highly probable 'maybe' then play him.

Others seem to waltz in from nowhere to get a game...others get strung along like the proverbial 'lamb" that might be ready in 426.

Apparently theres a new law of Physics.

Newtons law of football. The tnedency towards gettig a game is inversely proportional to any ability!!

Colin Garland really bummed out in that Sydney game, the ball hardly came near him and he didn't get to do much when it did.

This has always been of interest to me......

Was Garlands form that much better than Newtons when he debuted in Sydney?

And if not, then why did he get the nod ahead of him in Round 5?

And while I have no concern about Garland playing for the Dees again at some point in the future, his selection did seem to come a bit from nowhere (and please take this with some naivety on my part, as I can't see what is going on at Sandy), especially given the (ever growing) hoopla surrounding Newtons selection.

And while I agree that it is important to see what Newton is capable of, does anyone actually think that he will not debut at some point this season?

One Neale Daniher seems to think so !!

does anyone actually think that he will not debut at some point this season?

I doubt it.

And while I agree that it is important to see what Newton is capable of, does anyone actually think that he will not debut at some point this season?

I ABSOLUTELY think he will NOT debut this season. Every conceivable combination of outs and ins has happened... we even have 2 midfielders as 2 of our better KP forwards now. And he still isn't even getting a gig as an emergency. If they were going to play him, they would have.

Although I should point out that since he's contracted until the end of 2008, I'm grudgingly ok with him not playing this season.

Fair point......

Thanks Dan :D !!!

And while I agree that it is important to see what Newton is capable of, does anyone actually think that he will not debut at some point this season?

I don't think it's important for him to make his debut this year and if he doesn't get a gig this week I wouldn't be surprised if he doesn't get a run this year.

We have plenty of players who are in front of him in the pecking order looking to force their way back and other young guys who have debuted before him looking to keep their spot.

if he is the answer as our next KPF however i would like to see him in and playing regular footy before neitz retires so that we can adjust straight away. i dont want to see neitz out and then someone else in, its too drastic a change.

out of interest, does newton (and i spose the other younguns) train with the dees or with sandy? the players who wont play senior footy this year for sure, do they work with sandy at their sessions then come to melb on the other days? how does it work?

if he is the answer as our next KPF however i would like to see him in and playing regular footy before neitz retires so that we can adjust straight away. i dont want to see neitz out and then someone else in, its too drastic a change.

now youre being silly !! far too logical.. go sit in teh cornerr and have a serious think about your folly !! lol

I believe that Daniher is coaching for Daniher and not what is the best for the club.

That's complete rubbish - has never happened and I believe it never will. That's been one of Daniher's greatest strengths - always puts the club's interests ahead of his own.

This was written the next day after the Sydney game, Round 5.

Why did you ask if you had the quotes? You also have a full set there.

My answer advised..."If I recall correctly....." I didnt. Ho Hum. I saw him in the that Sandy game in round 5 and he turned it on for two quarters.

I think BR raised a valid point about Newton which I have observed in games since then. He commits himself in patches and not consistently throughout games. When he makes a mistake for instance he wallows and gets distract from moving onto the next contest. AFL demands greater consistency of effort throughout a game. He has shown he has the ability but the application is sometimes wanting.

Is it a self belief issue?

That's complete rubbish - has never happened and I believe it never will. That's been one of Daniher's greatest strengths - always puts the club's interests ahead of his own.

Correct Old.

I ABSOLUTELY think he will NOT debut this season. ......

Although I should point out that since he's contracted until the end of 2008, I'm grudgingly ok with him not playing this season.

Like your passion Dappa. But at times you are too hot and cold!

That's complete rubbish - has never happened and I believe it never will. That's been one of Daniher's greatest strengths - always puts the club's interests ahead of his own.

In the his job has neevr been on the line like it is now so what has happened in previous years is irrelevant. It will be interesting watching what he does for the rest of the year, that's the only way of proving which one of us is right.

I ABSOLUTELY think he will NOT debut this season. Every conceivable combination of outs and ins has happened... we even have 2 midfielders as 2 of our better KP forwards now. And he still isn't even getting a gig as an emergency. If they were going to play him, they would have.

Although I should point out that since he's contracted until the end of 2008, I'm grudgingly ok with him not playing this season.

Balls to that.

He will most certainly play this year. I'd almost bet my house on it.

I think BR raised a valid point about Newton which I have observed in games since then. He commits himself in patches and not consistently throughout games. When he makes a mistake for instance he wallows and gets distract from moving onto the next contest. AFL demands greater consistency of effort throughout a game. He has shown he has the ability but the application is sometimes wanting.

Name me ten young recent players who have stepped into an AFL team and immediately played consistent four quarter football? Now you're just being ridiculous, all young players take time to produce consistent efforts.

if he is the answer as our next KPF however i would like to see him in and playing regular footy before neitz retires so that we can adjust straight away. i dont want to see neitz out and then someone else in, its too drastic a change.

out of interest, does newton (and i spose the other younguns) train with the dees or with sandy? the players who wont play senior footy this year for sure, do they work with sandy at their sessions then come to melb on the other days? how does it work?

I've been saying this for awhile and I completely agree.

BIG RED SIGNING IN:

Good to see some intelligent debate on this topic..it has become few and far between on this site. From what I understand and have witnessed from watching him play Newton is exactly what is meant by a confidence player. The only thing that will stop him being a quality AFL player is his mind and application as he has all the attributes you require to be a quality key forward in todays game. We need to consider that he was drafted the second youngest in his draft, missed a whole year with injury and this time last year had only just commenced playing decent footy at Sandy 2's. By years end he was bagging hauls in the 2's and getting limited senior time. Now he is consistently kicking goals week in week out with some smaller bags. To me this is pretty good development.

If he is a confidence player it is key that he is brought up at the right time. There would be nothing worse than him getting elevated and not getting a touch. Would that be enough to put him back into his shell at Sandy? Possibly. I agree he needs to learn from Neitz and hence bringing him up this week does not serve that purpose, if anything it puts greater focus. I do not think him playing at the VFL is hindering his development as he has grown as a player in the first 11 rounds already and continues to each time I see him play. I think it was seen that the Sydney game we were very short for options and Garland was more mentally ready to be put in that situation. The best way for him to be promoted is with Neitz in the side and told that he will be played for 2-3 weeks regardless of performance. This should be with solid game time and not with limited ground time. This is probably the best way for him to be introduced. I however can not see who will make way in the current forward set up to fill that void at this point in time.

BIG RED SIGNING IN:

...

I think it was seen that the Sydney game we were very short for options and Garland was more mentally ready to be put in that situation.

How do you know this? Considering Garland's peformance for Melbourne I disagree. He wasn't ready at all, either mentally or physically.

How do you know this? Considering Garland's peformance for Melbourne I disagree. He wasn't ready at all, either mentally or physically.

I dont think either of them were ready to play but we had to play someone. I think it was determined that putting Garland into that environment too early may be better than putting Newton in there. This isn't about how he performed but more about what damage it may do to the players confidence and how would they handle it.

I dont think either of them were ready to play but we had to play someone. I think it was determined that putting Garland into that environment too early may be better than putting Newton in there. This isn't about how he performed but more about what damage it may do to the players confidence and how would they handle it.

But Garland didn't show anything close to what Newton has produced this year, so it just doesn't make sense that Garland was more mentally ready. But if what you just said about Newton's psyche can be so easily damaged by a poor performance in his first AFL game then he will never be ready, regardless of how many games he plays for Sandringham, I just completely disagree with that assessment.