46 minutes ago, beelzebub said:

Well, lots of things are worth a try.

My thoughts of May forward are I have none really.

I'm aware he knows what to dobas he was a fwd once before settling into one of the comps best backs. It's possibly more my reticence of fixing something that ain't particularly broke. Our defence is generally OK. Well it was, before it was 'fixed' . I was a little dubious that bringing a suspect Lever into the team and displacing Tmac would result in a beneficial upgrade. It hasn't.

My preference is to have May, Tmac and Disco hold down the big defender roles.

No one else really does May's job quite as well as he does.

But...let's roll with your idea

May up forward.. then begs with whom ?

I've really rewritten JVRs card atm as not being quite good enough.

Might you want Petty back and Disco fwd ?

A backline comprising Petty, Lever, Tmac, and Salem ?

Tbh.. I'm past caring. We might as well raffle the magnets.

Just to finish this post.... my rationale re Ricky pushing forward is he's out of sorts at back atm. So don't have him there. His forte is reading the flight, picking off the ball and making decisions ( generally very good ) quickly. He can normally find a team mate with a quick disposal. We [censored] around a lot in the f arc. Someone who can get ball, move ball to advantage quickly is what we've missed for a long time.

Look at games we've been most dangerous in. The ball moves quickly and fluidly into the 50 and directed to advantage. I.e.. someone sees someone else and ball is relayed quickly without hesitation.

What do we do all to often... we prop.. just long enough to kill the ball.

We need to break this cycle.

But , hey, cast the runes, mix it up and it might all be for nought if no bastard can split the sticks anyway.

Go us...

Roll on 26

Thanks for this.

If May was forward I think we would move Petty back.

That leaves us with him, Lever, Disco and Tmac .

Ideally we want the Lever of old back to play May forward.

And then if he was doing well we would have the option of swinging Disco forward well.

I think May, Turner, Fritta and Melksham fwd would be very interesting. Plus the option of Jvr.

1 hour ago, GS_1905 said:

The intensity was off from the get go. The players were not on for the game and it showed. Everything suffered as a result. It is still the same old inconsistency problems that we have suffered for years. Our system was unable to cover for it either, which is understandable.

It amazes me how some teams like Collingwood and to a lesser extent Geelong are able to show up just about every week. I dont think we have enough leaders / players demanding high standards gameday and that are willing to lead by example.

Absolutely spot on. Ultimately this is our problem now, and has been our problem for generations. We just don't seem to be able to compete as hard for as long as the perennially competitive clubs.

Goodwin seems to have been able to get the appropriate pressure/intensity levels out of the players more than any other coach since Northey, but it still hasn't been regular enough to avoid costing us finals over the time since the flag. Is that really on the coach? Or is it on the players? Or is it the club culture in general?

The analysts are wondering why we reverted to slow, kick down the line on the weekend. Well, it is a product of our lack of intensity. Without the pressure, we do not get the ball back in positions or scenarios where we can move it in a more dangerous manner.

I honestly think the AFL deliberately make the pressure rating stats difficult to find because if they were easily accessible, none of the analysts would have a job anymore. Everyone would plainly see that games where both teams bring pressure are decided by talent, and in games where there is a difference in pressure levels the outcome of the talent gap and hence the final result can shift relative to the pressure difference. This game is really such a simple one I reckon.

On 02/06/2025 at 15:41, jackaub said:

Oh well

I have occasionally agreed

dont lie!

On 03/06/2025 at 13:14, Sir Why You Little said:

The Alice Springs Junket…

7 hours ago, rufus said:

Absolutely spot on. Ultimately this is our problem now, and has been our problem for generations. We just don't seem to be able to compete as hard for as long as the perennially competitive clubs.

but it still hasn't been regular enough to avoid costing us finals over the time since the flag. Is that really on the coach? Or is it on the players? Or is it the club culture in general?

The Coach is ultimately there to drive the standards through the group.

Starts on (and off!) the track then attempt to implement that on the on field with experienced leaders supposedly there to ensure everyone's on that same path.

I would say we have the game day mostly covered by on-field leaders in Max & Vines (when they're both playing).

The other is usually Lever behind the ball but he's either been mostly absent and/or way off his usual form since returning.

Personally i am now wondering if our preferred game style in terms of forcing more turnovers and sling shotting forward with precision and speed off of those, sees Lever on the outer in terms of his inability to hit those shorter targets / switches and 45s?

T-Mac now clearly the preferred option here in the short term imo and by a fair margin.

Lever's limitations with his disposal means we are more likely to see our old style return when he has possession (vs T-Mac) dumping / bombing down the line.

Surely as a coach trying to implement the change, you go with players (where you have the choice) who are a better fit and more capable of executing!??

As to why Simon switched Lever in for T-Mac, well only he knows the reasoning.

But for mine, Lever is basically a 3rd in line back up for T-Mac or Turner now and should not be the default out of those three any longer.

My other worry is the cultural. And that outside of some of the main drivers, there is still a 'boys club ... we decide when we go hard or party' type atmosphere and attitude at the club.

The tail is STILL (after many decades of the same BS) wagging the dog.

While Simon's done a reasonably good job to eradicate this, i still think he has probably (ultimately) failed to excorsize this mischeavous devil out of the club.

Until Simon (or someone else) does it will continue to haunt us imv.

Edited Thursday at 12:032 days by Demon Dynasty

There has , to this befuddled observer, been most likely one common theme about Goodwins tenure. The prevalence that pressure will see you through.

A lot , if not all, of his tactical strategies are reliant on unswerving pressure. There's never been much attention to nuance, to top end skill... just keep at it and the ball somehow goes through the sticks. And there in lies the fault in his 🤔 thinking imho. It doesn't. Yet we still don't seem to give any weight to finishing off our efforts properly. It's very slap dash .

We have a game that attempts to have/use the ball more often than our opponents but we're failing.

I can.only surmise that we'll struggle continually if we don't change that fundamental of thinking.

It seems Simon is either reluctant or inherently incapable of repositioning his approach.

This is why , for the most part , I see a need for a change at the helm. We just seem to be going nowhere and doing it the hard way which if nothing else only confers extraordinary wear and tear on the list.

Better teams play a much more clever game.

We don't really want for effort, just results.

That the very essence of the game ( for mine ) seems to sit at the bottom of necessities is the damning commentary.

The game is about a better score. Simply that. You win by no other metric. Just the scoreboard.

You score most effectively with goals. You score higher if your goal kicking is accurate and often.

Kicking points ... just dumb footy.

And he we are.

Now ponder this for a moment if you would. We do this by design. This is how we play.

This has to change.

What avenues of change do we have ?

How's the pondering going ??

As an adherent of the Chaos Theory, I have some affinity with the volume approach.

However I also ascribe to the theory patterns that that the components lead to the outcomes , most specifically the bifurcations are subject to the strange attractor.

We must identify that strange attractor, I have posited that it was Trac, but in reality it could be other factors or we would score goals every 5.5333 times we attack.

Of course the theory is developed from large data analysis and so we may be the victim of previous periods of accuracy which is now being compensated for to came back to the magical number.

17 minutes ago, beelzebub said:

There has , to this befuddled observer, been most likely one common theme about Goodwins tenure. The prevalence that pressure will see you through.

A lot , if not all, of his tactical strategies are reliant on unswerving pressure. There's never been much attention to nuance, to top end skill... just keep at it and the ball somehow goes through the sticks. And there in lies the fault in his 🤔 thinking imho. It doesn't. Yet we still don't seem to give any weight to finishing off our efforts properly. It's very slap dash .

We have a game that attempts to have/use the ball more often than our opponents but we're failing.

I can.only surmise that we'll struggle continually if we don't change that fundamental of thinking.

It seems Simon is either reluctant or inherently incapable of repositioning his approach.

This is why , for the most part , I see a need for a change at the helm. We just seem to be going nowhere and doing it the hard way which if nothing else only confers extraordinary wear and tear on the list.

Better teams play a much more clever game.

We don't really want for effort, just results.

That the very essence of the game ( for mine ) seems to sit at the bottom of necessities is the damning commentary.

The game is about a better score. Simply that. You win by no other metric. Just the scoreboard.

You score most effectively with goals. You score higher if your goal kicking is accurate and often.

Kicking points ... just dumb footy.

And he we are.

Now ponder this for a moment if you would. We do this by design. This is how we play.

This has to change.

What avenues of change do we have ?

How's the pondering going ??

I think he has rethought his approach, we're playing quite differently to the last few years. You have to remember that he's learning as well. He's likely a much better coach now than he was in 2020. If you want to win finals it's all about pressure and contest. Our plan is clearly still forward half based but with better transition from turnover, something that's been clearly apparent in our wins. Is it time for a change of coach?......Possibly as everyone has a use by date. I still think he'll be with us next year and hopefully we can add some talent at the end of the season and be cherry ripe for 2026. If we lose 2-3 out of the next few weeks I'd be getting games into Adam's, JVR and Jefferson and setting ourselves for a monster preseason. Get any surgeries done early and build for 2026. If of course we start winning then we may as well push for the flag this year as well.

22 minutes ago, Roost it far said:

. I think he has rethought his approach, we're playing quite differently to the last few years. You have to remember that he's learning as well. He's likely a much better coach now than he was in 2020. If you want to win finals it's all about pressure and contest. Our plan is clearly still forward half based but with better transition from turnover, something that's been clearly apparent in our wins. Is it time for a change of coach?......Possibly as everyone has a use by date. I still think he'll be with us next year and hopefully we can add some talent at the end of the season and be cherry ripe for 2026. If we lose 2-3 out of the next few weeks I'd be getting games into Adam's, JVR and Jefferson and setting ourselves for a monster preseason. Get any surgeries done early and build for 2026. If of course we start winning then we may as well push for the flag this year as well.

My point is... there has been tweaking and some rearranging but the pre-eminent method of play is really just pressure.

Pressure is a component of good play but it shouldn't be the be all and end all, and that's my take away. We really have no that many sides to our game.

I know he is capable of nuance as his early days with us ( but notably under Roos ) exhibited this.

We seem stuck in a rut and just vary our cannoning along said rut up either side but never out.

Many I suspect are waiting for this weekends result before putting any lines through the season bit I'm already there.

We're just playing out 25....it's how we do it that will determine who and what for 26... and for mine that ought to 'who' in every aspect... FD and List.

Go Dees

Just go better ;)

31 minutes ago, beelzebub said:

My point is... there has been tweaking and some rearranging but the pre-eminent method of play is really just pressure.

Look at every AFL game, all teams this season and if they don't bring the pressure they lose.

It's a very important part of the game.

I don't think any coach, including Simon think it's the only or pre-eminent method of play but without it you don't win.

Pressure and contest aren't really a game style, they're a prerequisite to disarming the opposition. Watch our game against Brisbane, we literally wore them out which is exactly what we have to do on Monday.

We are the most inconsistent team in the AFL and have been for 4 years. You just never know what we’ll get and it’s got to be the coaches, teams like Collingwood Geelong come out every eeek and do their best, we are mentally soft and I’ve had it, as I’ve had it for years. If we don’t make the finals this year, and lm 95% sure we wont, we must have a change with coaching staff, Goodwin out, Choco out, maybe give it to Chaplin, if not get him out and start again. IMO Buckley or Longmire should be asked, Longmire kept Sydney up for long time, he must be good because they’ve crashed this year without him. Think Buckley is a good coach too and l would be happy with him coaching our mob, just must get Goodwin out if we miss finals again, we’ve still got the list, Goodwin just not good enough to do anything with it!

30 minutes ago, rjay said:

Look at every AFL game, all teams this season and if they don't bring the pressure they lose.

It's a very important part of the game.

I don't think any coach, including Simon think it's the only or pre-eminent method of play but without it you don't win.

I'm not saying that... I'm saying it's our ONLY tactic. With no commensurate skill to finish it off.

44 minutes ago, beelzebub said:

I'm not saying that... I'm saying it's our ONLY tactic. With no commensurate skill to finish it off.

It's not...

5 minutes ago, rjay said:

It's not...

Scoreboard suggests otherwise.

We just blaze away. It's all about scoring shots.... not scoring ability for us...

Milk, no cream. Cake, no icing.

5 minutes ago, beelzebub said:

Scoreboard suggests otherwise.

We just blaze away. It's all about scoring shots.... not scoring ability for us...

Milk, no cream. Cake, no icing.

Suggests nothing of the sort.

59 minutes ago, rjay said:

Suggests nothing of the sort.

He's on bloody record as saying the plan is to create the maximum amount of scoring opportunities. Shame he hasn't spent as much time think.or developing the abilities to do that last bit.

But by all means invent an imagery that suits.

A lot of us can see what is plain as day.

3 hours ago, beelzebub said:

My point is... there has been tweaking and some rearranging but the pre-eminent method of play is really just pressure.

2 hours ago, beelzebub said:

Look at every AFL game, all teams this season and if they don't bring the pressure they lose.

2 hours ago, beelzebub said:

I'm not saying that... I'm saying it's our ONLY tactic.

18 minutes ago, beelzebub said:

He's on bloody record as saying the plan is to create the maximum amount of scoring opportunities.

Make up your mind...Pressure or scoring opportunities???

For what it's worth, I think we have a list problem.

...and to win with this list anything short of maximum pressure and we don't win...

1 hour ago, rjay said:

Make up your mind...Pressure or scoring opportunities???

For what it's worth, I think we have a list problem.

...and to win with this list anything short of maximum pressure and we don't win...

It's about have more tools in your belt than a hammer and a screw driver.

No point having all your game about pressure.

2 hours ago, beelzebub said:

It's about have more tools in your belt than a hammer and a screw driver.

No point having all your game about pressure.

It's not our game being all about pressure.

As I said before any team that drops off the pressure struggles.

So, it's not about our game being about pressure it's about the game being about pressure to a large extent.

Edited 10 hours ago10 hr by rjay