8 minutes ago, jackaub said:

Whatdid the review reveal

Not much by the looks of things

From memory it looked like we were tracking well but there was something minor about Goodwin needing to be a bit less serious (thus, the lovey dovey stuff??)

Oddly enough, many here want Goodwin to be a lot more serious (with the players)

By the way, if it's a player and coaching issue then those only taking sides against Goodwin need to talk about the players not performing up to expectations as well

I've highlighted the player's side of things but I'm not a huge Goodwin fan as I reckon he struggles with the offense in footy

But he's been excellent on the defensive side of things and that can't be put aside

If Goodwin coaches into next season he'll need better assistants

19 minutes ago, Macca said:

Underperforming talent

In the Coaches Box…..

7 hours ago, Adam The God said:

How many times have we talked about execution. That's been the constant theme for 8 or 9 years. I and others wanted Viney to play as a pressure forward in 2020 because his ball use was a killer in midfield.

In 2021 I also lamented our goalkicking. I said if we didn't kick straight we wouldn't win the flag. We had an incredible finals series where we kicked mostly straight.

The way you're framing these things is like no one has ever said them. Our ability to execute has constantly been a Demonland trope for as long as I can remember...

I stand by my posts expressing and outlining that certain factors/excuses over the last few seasons have become the dominant and popular ones on this site, in part because the posters that spruik them are overly optimistic about our list which imv has been the number one issue behind the consistent and predictable nature of our failings.

I hope that clears any confusion up for you and you understand the context and stop cherry picking words.

Execution is only a problem because it's the same players who are incapable of executing on a consistent basis. And THAT is a list issue. So it's not just about execution on its own.

Playing Viney as a pressure forward is also not the answer imv while we're at it. Adding another player inside forward 50 with poor kicking skills? What on earth will that achieve?

We're beyond that and so is the game. The best pressure forwards across the AFL can also play strong offensive games and are dynamic.

The problem is that many Melbourne supporters don't like the idea of moving on any one of our core but we're at a cross roads. And sacrifice has to be made for us to move forward and back up the ladder. And we absolutely cannot move back up and into contention if we hold onto all of those senior core players and play them as we have been given the way they're performing.

If Goodwin can't make those hard calls, he is not the man for the job. Andnon top of that, I think the whole club would benefit from a change in voice and would be about the only thing to inspire some of those senior core players to get back to their best.

8 minutes ago, Sir Why You Little said:

Totally different scenario when Bailey was Coaching and you know it Macca

Bailey lost a lot and Goodwin has won a lot of games? (including a flag)

There's a big 'like' factor in sport and I reckon Goodwin's deadpan demeaner isn't well liked

Where as Bailey seemed to be well liked

You went to town on the players over 186 yet when the players let themselves down badly against North you blamed Goodwin

Your argument lacks consistency

6 minutes ago, Sir Why You Little said:

In the Coaches Box…..

You'll never get it Wyl

Depending on who is the coach you change your mind about the players efforts on a day to day basis

You even blamed Goodwin when Clarrie went off the rails. Astonishing

World Hunger? On Goodwin?

2 minutes ago, Macca said:

Bailey lost a lot and Goodwin has won a lot of games? (including a flag)

There's a big 'like' factor in sport and I reckon Goodwin's deadpan demeaner isn't well liked

Where as Bailey seemed to be well liked

You went to town on the players over 186 yet when the players let themselves down badly against North you blamed Goodwin

Your argument lacks consistency

I blame the Gameplan

It has been dysfunctional for 4 years

That is on the Coach

As for Dean Bailey, well that is on Cameron Schwab…

1 minute ago, Macca said:

You'll never get it Wyl

Depending on who is the coach you change your mind about the players efforts on a day to day basis

You even blamed Goodwin when Clarrie went off the rails. Astonishing

World Hunger? On Goodwin?

What are you talking about?

What happened with Clarry is on Clarry

I am not a huge fan of the Coach being mates with his players, as i think it can blur the line of Respect

Players always take some blame when things go wrong, but ultimately The Head Coach is the one in Charge.

Maybe it is YOU who don’t get it Macca…

1 minute ago, Sir Why You Little said:

I blame the Gameplan

It has been dysfunctional for 4 years

That is on the Coach

As for Dean Bailey, well that is on Cameron Schwab…

Goodwin is on record in the pursuit of a new game plan started in early 2024

Players couldn't adjust so we went back to the old ways before attempting the same game plan from the start of this season

Again, the players couldn't adjust so we are where we are as a result

Goodwin must have known the change in game plan was risky but he took that risk regardless. Should be applauded for doing so, not lambasted

As for the players, many of them lack footy IQ and there lies the problem

10 minutes ago, Macca said:

You went to town on the players over 186 yet when the players let themselves down badly against North you blamed Goodwin

After 186 i went to town on the Club Macca

2 minutes ago, Macca said:

Goodwin is on record in the pursuit of a new game plan started in early 2024

Players couldn't adjust so we went back to the old ways before attempting the same game plan from the start of this season

Again, the players couldn't adjust so we are where we are as a result

Goodwin must have known the change in game plan was risky but he took that risk regardless. Should be applauded for doing so, not lambasted

As for the players, many of them lack footy IQ and there lies the problem

A Gameplan is useless if it cannot be executed….

That is on the Coacing Staff

1 minute ago, Sir Why You Little said:

What are you talking about?

What happened with Clarry is on Clarry

I am not a huge fan of the Coach being mates with his players, as i think it can blur the line of Respect

Players always take some blame when things go wrong, but ultimately The Head Coach is the one in Charge.

Maybe it is YOU who don’t get it Macca…

You need to go a lot harder on the players as a whole. By constantly lambasting Goodwin, you make it look like he's responsible for all the players failings

Truth is that any player is responsible for their own performances

The coach can only do so much. We've got any number of players who can't carry out simple instructions

And then people like you let them off the hook by blaming the coach

First quarter against the GC says it all. Disinterested players who lack motivation. Not many self-starters amongst the playing group. Lazy & unaccountable

3 minutes ago, Macca said:

You need to go a lot harder on the players as a whole. By constantly lambasting Goodwin, you make it look like he's responsible for all the players failings

Truth is that any player is responsible for their own performances

The coach can only do so much. We've got any number of players who can't carry out simple instructions

And then people like you let them off the hook by blaming the coach

First quarter against the GC says it all. Disinterested players who lack motivation. Not many self-starters amongst the playing group. Lazy & unaccountable

Maybe the instructions suck???

23 hours ago, Adam The God said:

Posters, myself included, talk about mental fatigue, but it's one of many factors, just as learning a new zonal system.

I noted on AFL360 while I was in the pub that we're the number ball movement team in the competition. It's a marked shift in the way we play.

IMV, not enough emphasis is placed on this shift in the way we're trying to play. This also explains teething issues, but I've outlined my position now on the rest of the season.

Id like to understand more about the ball movement measure. Of course we're going to be one of the quickest ball movement teams if we are just slamming the ball on the boot and kicking it as far forward as we can without trying to retain possession, hit up a target etc. It is related to our poor inside 50s, we just slam the ball on the boot and kick it on top of players heads or to packs. Perhaps we should be more considered with our ball movement and focus on retaining possession, kicking to teammates advantage and being in the best position to score goals instead of just moving it forward as quick as we can at all costs.

Being quick at ball movement doesn't mean we are a quick team, or even a good team.

Edited Thursday at 10:082 days by Dr. Gonzo

2 minutes ago, Dr. Gonzo said:

Id like to understand more about the ball movement measure. Of course we're going to be one of the quickest ball movement teams if we are just slamming the ball on the boot and kicking it as far forward as we can without trying to retain possession, hit up a target etc. It is related to our poor inside 50s, we just slam the ball on the boot and kick it on top of players heads or to packs. Perhaps we should be more considered with our ball movement and focus on retaining possession, kicking to teammates advantage and being in the best position to score goals instead of just moving it forward as quick as we can at all costs.

Being quick at ball movement doesn't mean we are a quick team, or even a good team.

It's just another conversation point to 'prove' that we've changed the way we're playing and that there will be 'teething' issues.

All the while efficiency at goal, inside 50, moving ball from inside to out cleanly is the same. I wonder why...

I'll give you the hot tip. It's nothing to do with game-plan teething, loading, not being fit enough or aliens.

Edited Thursday at 10:152 days by Howard_Grimes

6 minutes ago, Sir Why You Little said:

After 186 i went to town on the Club Macca

Well you certainly didn't blame Bailey

Nor did I but I certainly did blame the players (more so for their lack of talent) Little did we know that the thumpings would continue into 2012 & 2013

So we've got plenty of talent now but the players just can't adapt to a new style

But you never know, by the end of year the penny might drop for the players

Share the ball instead of long bombs doesn't seem to be too big of an ask. But for our players, it is seemingly too much of an ask ... except for about 4 or 5 games this season when the new plan was enacted

So we know the players are capable otherwise we don't beat Brisbane (up there) or run the Pies close

Edited Thursday at 10:152 days by Macca

12 minutes ago, Sir Why You Little said:

Maybe the instructions suck???

"Hey fellas, can you hit up a target in the forward line and can the forwards get on your bikes and present to the ball carrier"

It's that simple, it really is. It's not rocket science, just basic footy 101

Yet our players are incapable of carrying out a simple instruction that could be used for the under 12's

We've got many footballers who are deficient in footy IQ

4 minutes ago, Macca said:

Well you certainly didn't blame Bailey

Nor did I but I certainly did blame the players (more so for their lack of talent) Little did we know that the thumpings would continue into 2012 & 2013

So we've got plenty of talent now but the players just can't adapt to a new style

But you never know, by the end of year the penny might drop for the players

Share the ball instead of long bombs doesn't seem to be too big of an ask. But for our players, it is seemingly too much of an ask ... except for about 4 or 5 games this season when the new plan was enacted

So we know the players are capable otherwise we don't beat Brisbane (up there) or run the Pies close

We have already waited 4 years for a dysfunctional forward line to change.

It’s time for a change

As for Bailey. I never blamed him. He was Coaching with one arm behind his back

The Blame was always on Schwab (and Conolly to a lesser extent)

4 minutes ago, Macca said:

"Hey fellas, can you hit up a target in the forward line and can the forwards get on your bikes and present to the ball carrier"

It's that simple, it really is. It's not rocket science, just basic footy 101

Yet our players are incapable of carrying out a simple instruction that could be used for the under 12's

We've got many footballers who are deficient in footy IQ

I don’t think the Coach is great at communicating his messages, thus I want Change, whilst the playing list still has the talent

13 minutes ago, Sir Why You Little said:

I don’t think the Coach is great at communicating his messages, thus I want Change, whilst the playing list still has the talent

So we've got forwards who won't lead and mids who bomb away yet this is the fault of the coach?

It's 100% on the players and that's why players such as long-bomb-Clarrie sat on the pine early in the season

Move long-bomb-Petracca forward so he becomes a target and then move long-bomb-Viney forward as well

Solves one problem but creates another ... our new look midfield needs many more games under their belts so as to become a potent force

So Goodwin has been pro-active with the new game plan but it needs time and more importantly, a buy-in from all and sundry

3 hours ago, Macca said:

Yes that's true but the coach cops it 100 times more than the players (on this site)

Player personnel wise we are in a real bind. We're paying elite money to a number of players for constant sub-par performances

Almost untradeable because of the length of contracts and money involved

Either way, it's hard to see a clear pathway ahead. If they stay and continue underperforming then another bog ordinary season is on the cards

If we offload what would we get in return? In my view, not much apart from salary dumping

I'd call for a full review but we just did that last year

The issue we have is we don’t have other mids who can win the ball, Langford & Lindsay are 1st year players & kick great, may as well throw them, unfortunately who is getting dropped for the bombing and poor choices going fwd ..Jvr whipping boy

4 minutes ago, Macca said:

So we've got forwards who won't lead and mids who bomb away yet this is the fault of the coach?

It's 100% on the players and that's why players such as long-bomb-Clarrie sat on the pine early in the season

Move long-bomb-Petracca forward so he becomes a target and then move long-bomb-Viney forward as well

Solves one problem but creates another ... our new look midfield needs many more games under their belts so as to become a potent force

So Goodwin has been pro-active with the new game plan but it needs time and more importantly, a buy-in from all and sundry

Yes after 4 years, it is on The Head Coach, if he cannot explain his Gameplan after 4 Seasons

Sure some of the Blame can be levelled at Players, but the Head Coach is employed by the Club to get the best out of the list.

This has not happened since 2021

28 minutes ago, Dr. Gonzo said:

Id like to understand more about the ball movement measure. Of course we're going to be one of the quickest ball movement teams if we are just slamming the ball on the boot and kicking it as far forward as we can without trying to retain possession, hit up a target etc. It is related to our poor inside 50s, we just slam the ball on the boot and kick it on top of players heads or to packs. Perhaps we should be more considered with our ball movement and focus on retaining possession, kicking to teammates advantage and being in the best position to score goals instead of just moving it forward as quick as we can at all costs.

Being quick at ball movement doesn't mean we are a quick team, or even a good team.

Champion Data have said it's the most important stat in footy. So it definitely carries some importance.

But Daniel Hoyne has also said "there is no right or wrong, but it is all about the return that you are getting on the scoreboard from that method that you choose to implement".

So despite that, last year's premiers Brisbane were the fastest team in the comp last year.

Ball movement is about how quickly you move it from D50 to A50. So yes, it doesn't automatically mean goals but as this Fox Sports article notes (https://www.foxsports.com.au/afl/afl-2025-speed-of-ball-statistic-explained-every-team-ranked-from-fastest-to-slowest-afl-ball-movement-stats-champion-data-numbers-latest-news/news-story/8e4894d20931117b3a3311bf98ba3a51), "in general, the quicker you go, the more likely you are to score - every team scores more moving the ball quicker".

The important thing to note is "score" versus "kick goals". We don't have enough good finishers. Aside from Kozzy and Melksham, who can also be wildly inaccurate (see this season), we have too many mids and KPFs who cannot finish their work inside 50.

It's not a game style or ball moment problem, it's an accuracy problem. It's why Fritta's inaccuracy this year been super costly, because we don't have enough solid kicks inside.

2 minutes ago, Demonsone said:

The issue we have is we don’t have other mids who can win the ball, Langford & Lindsay are 1st year players & kick great, may as well throw them, unfortunately who is getting dropped for the bombing and poor choices going fwd ..Jvr whipping boy

Yep, that's why we needed Petracca, Oliver & Viney to buy into the new game plan but on the evidence we've seen, none of the 3 have a want to hit up targets in the F50

What accentuates the issue is we don't have natural forwards who can win their own ball, get to the right positions or lead properly

8 minutes ago, Sir Why You Little said:

Yes after 4 years, it is on The Head Coach, if he cannot explain his Gameplan after 4 Seasons

Sure some of the Blame can be levelled at Players, but the Head Coach is employed by the Club to get the best out of the list.

This has not happened since 2021

We stuffed up in 2022 and ran out of legs but we still won 16 games in the H&A

Cruelled by injury going into the 2023 finals series. Lost Petty, Melk with T-Mac & Fritsch on one leg. Then lost Gus & JVR on top of that ... 2023 is in the forgive-file in my view

Last year we started losing our way and this year we look lost

But again, we embarked on a new game style from early in 2024 and to my eyes, there's been a lack of a buy-in by the senior players

As for Goodwin, because of his contract, he'll coach into next season so you may as well keep your powder dry until then

The focus is on Carlton & Voss where as we're just not the story

5 minutes ago, Macca said:

We stuffed up in 2022 and ran out of legs but we still won 16 games in the H&A

Cruelled by injury going into the 2023 finals series. Lost Petty, Melk with T-Mac & Fritsch on one leg. Then lost Gus & JVR on top of that ... 2023 is in the forgive-file in my view

Last year we started losing our way and this year we look lost

But again, we embarked on a new game style from early in 2024 and to my eyes, there's been a lack of a buy-in by the senior players

As for Goodwin, because of his contract, he'll coach into next season so you may as well keep your powder dry until then

The focus is on Carlton & Voss where as we're just not the story

Goodwin butchered 2022. Played the same best 22 for weeks on end and refused to change up the team or rest players when the opportunity was there to do so. His management of the team that year was incredibly poor and it bit him in the [censored] in the end. That's on him.

2023 as you say we were cruelled by injuries at the wrong time of the year which I dont blame him for. His selection and coaching during the finals was utterly bizarre though.

Dropping an experienced Hibberd for the Carlton final and using a 200cm Josh Schache as the sub, to then not play him him..... Still doesn't make sense to this day.

2024 was a combination off field distractions and noise which i think just got too much for the club as a whole. Again, I dont put that down purely to Goodwins fault.

2025 is aimed 100% at Goodwin. 0-5 start, forward entries issues, selection integrity, fully fit list that still can't capitalise on the mix between experience and young talent.

He'll stay to 2026 even thoughI personally want him gone, but if he starts next year poorly, then he doesn't see the season out at all.