Two winnable games last week and yesterday.

Brad Millers contribution - 9 possessions, 4 kicks and 5 handballs, third lowest in the team ahead of Neita and warnock.

Wer'e playing with 17 on the field, and the FD needs to face reality.

Times up.

Come on in. No.7

Two winnable games last week and yesterday.

Brad Millers contribution - 9 possessions, 4 kicks and 5 handballs, third lowest in the team ahead of Neita and warnock.

Wer'e playing with 17 on the field, and the FD needs to face reality.

Times up.

Come on in. No.7

Didnt Yze, Davey & Johnstone have a couple of shockers in thye first couple of games? And their going alright ATM. He wiil come good soon!!!!

i thought miller had a terrific first half to the game, constantly presenting and taking a few strong marks on the lead. after he strained ligaments in his ankle, he came back on but was clearly not right...so he is forgiven.

he has been one of our better players this year. he tries his guts out and has performed remarkably well while neitz and robbo have been injured.

just coz of a couple of poor performances, im sick of people saying he should be dropped

i mean honestly, ignorant, stupid posters such as yourself said davey should be dropped after 2 mediocre performances round 2 and 3. since then he has averaged 25 possies, 6 marks and 2.25 goals a game for 4 matches straight...so too, miller should not be dropped after only a couple of poor performances, when overall he has been great this season.

Our top three BIG forwards since 2004 have been Neitz, Robbo and Miller.

And over those three years and seven rounds Miller has been on the end of a fair bit of stick from most Melbourne supporters. Most supporters stating that he cannot mark and doesn’t get the ball enough. Here are some stats that may debunk that myth.

MARKS (average per game played):

2004 Miller averaged 5.5 marks per game played (ranked 3rd in the team), Robbo 5.0 (ranked 4th) and Neita 4.7 (ranked 8th)

2005 Miller 6.2 (ranked 2nd), Robbo 5.8 (ranked 4th) and Neita 3.7 (ranked 18th)

2006 Miller 5.6 (ranked 7th), Neita 5.0 (ranked 16th) and Robbo 4.6 (ranked 20th)

2007 Miller 4.7 (ranked 12th), Robbo 4.5 (ranked 13th) and Neita 2.5 (ranked 26th)

With the exception of this year, Miller has been in our top 10 for average marks taken per game played with Neita only ranking in the top 10 once.

DISPOSALS (average per game played):

2004 Miller averaged 11.95 disposals per game played (ranked 16th in the team), Robbo 14.23 (ranked 12th) and Neita 8.9 (ranked 25th).

2005 Miller 11.83 (ranked 18th), Robbo 11.52 (ranked 20th) and Neita 8.06 (ranked 27th).

2006 Miller 12.33 (ranked 23rd), Robbo 10.52 (ranked 27th) and Neita 9.71 (ranked 28th).

2007 Miller 12.41 (ranked 2oth), Robbo 11.5 (ranked 23rd) and Neita 5.5 (ranked 29th).

So what does this all mean? I am not sure but it is food for thought.

What I would say is that if punters believe Neita and Robbo have performed well over the last four years, then maybe those same punters have been a little too hard on Miller. On the surface, his stats are certainly better than those of Neita.

How can you have your captain average less than 10 possessions a game??? Bring on Brock

I would suggest that once Neita gets his 300 games he retires immediately (he does deserve the 300 games) - and I would make Sylvia our full forward - not quick enough for on ball but powerful enough for the forward line.

GO DEMONS

I wrote this in another post (the 3-word player analysis post), but think it may be more relevant here.

Miller, other than that one desperate dive which created a goal for Davey i think(?) (right after PJ took on Aker and pumped it inside 50), was not so good again. Dont get me wrong, I like Miller's physical presence and presenting and am by no means a 'Miller-basher', but i think he may just need some time in the VFL to learn how to play as a forward, if we want him to fit into our structure long-term. (Just an opinion, but he clearly is not a natural attacking player, and probably hasnt spent enough time learning this trade at Sandy. He really has been forced to learn to become a good forward at league level, and this along with not having that natural forward flair or goal-sense, has set him back somewhat in his career. Just an opinion, but one worth a thought.)

I'm ready and prepared to be lynched by the Miller supporters for saying this, but i see it as quite simple. He is not a natural forward, therefore, he wont hurt the opposition on the scoreboard. Is that what we really want from one of our Key Position forwards?

Juice Newts may not be ready physically or mentally yet, but neither is Brad ready to be an AFL KP forward. The season is now officially over for us, i'd really love to see the kid get a go, just as much as i'd love to see Miller start kicking bags at Sandy.

What I would say is that if punters believe Neita and Robbo have performed well over the last four years, then maybe those same punters have been a little too hard on Miller. On the surface, his stats are certainly better than those of Neita.

Great research, well done!

Stats are not the whole story, as you said Neita averages 10 disposals a game, but what he does with those is invaluable.

Miller sometimes has plenty of stats that are actually handballs to stationary players, which is a worry.

However, in terms of marking, he takes more than his fair share. On MMM last night they were talking about him, and they said that he is only taking chest marks because he has no confidence. To put it simply, we need to see him extending the 'dukes' more often. We also need him to kick goals. His field kicking has improved dramatically this year, and during the warm-up he barely misses a set-shot on goal. Again, it all comes down to confidence, or lack thereof.

He is not a classy type forward, and he isn't damaging enough to be a CHF, but what he can be is a third tall, who brings plenty of aggression, and creates leads at every opportunity. IMO, the game is moving away from having two gorillas at CHF and FF respectively. We will do much better with a smaller, more mobile CHF, to balance the other talls we already have (and I would consider Robbo a tall).

What I would say is that if punters believe Neita and Robbo have performed well over the last four years, then maybe those same punters have been a little too hard on Miller. On the surface, his stats are certainly better than those of Neita.

I think one stat u have missed here is GOALS.

Both Neitz and Robbo have consistently scored over 40 goals a year in that time (and for several years prior). Miller is yet to crack 20 for a season (his best year was 13 goals from 22 games in 2004). He may get more than that this year, but i still cant see him scoring 30+ for the season. I know he has been chopped and changed a lot between forward and back, but IMO thats just not good enough output for a potential KP forward.

I wrote this in another post (the 3-word player analysis post), but think it may be more relevant here.

...

I'm ready and prepared to be lynched by the Miller supporters for saying this, but i see it as quite simple. He is not a natural forward, therefore, he wont hurt the opposition on the scoreboard. Is that what we really want from one of our Key Position forwards?

Juice Newts may not be ready physically or mentally yet, but neither is Brad ready to be an AFL KP forward. The season is now officially over for us, i'd really love to see the kid get a go, just as much as i'd love to see Miller start kicking bags at Sandy.

Its more than putting on the scoreboard. Miller does not get enough of the ball and does not win the contested ball, try as hard as he might.

However, I dont see the natural replacement of Miller for Newton. The kid has had two good weeks (six quarters) at or around FF and you want to launch him at CHF. Miller is not the answer but there is no need to make a sacrificial lamb of another as a result.

Its more than putting on the scoreboard. Miller does not get enough of the ball and does not win the contested ball, try as hard as he might.

However, I dont see the natural replacement of Miller for Newton. The kid has had two good weeks (six quarters) at or around FF and you want to launch him at CHF. Miller is not the answer but there is no need to make a sacrificial lamb of another as a result.

Understood... but is it not worth a try, even just for a week in the same way we 'tried' Garland out? Who knows, he may just surprise us. And if he doesnt, no harm done. Not this week against the Eagles, but sometime soon.

I'm just sick of having a forward in our 50 who doesnt play as a forward.

....................

Given the way marks and kicks are so cheap these days I dont put much credibility in the measurements provided.

ALso, Miller has played up the ground as a CHF. By rights he should be getting a load more possessions that two players who play deeper to goal in the FF line like Neitz and Robbo.

What is does tell me is that Miller's possessions are no so numerous for his role reliative to the others and inconsequential on their impact on opposition sides.

When I look back on the last three years I can readily recall games where Neita and Robbo have had an impact. I struggle to find one with Miller.

Understood... but is it not worth a try, even just for a week in the same way we 'tried' Garland out? Who knows, he may just surprise us. And if he doesnt, no harm done. Not this week against the Eagles, but sometime soon.

I'm just sick of having a forward in our 50 who doesnt play like a forward.

I think the crucial thing at 0 and 7 is to ensure the side as a whole is competitive and continuing to improve. As appropriate over the course of the year players like Newton and should be and will be introduced. But they deserve to be introduced with a fair chance to succeed. Its a big ask for a first gamer to walk straight into a side that is struggle with success.

I agree it will be some time soon, barring issues of form or fitness.

I think the crucial thing at 0 and 7 is to ensure the side as a whole is competitive and continuing to improve. As appropriate over the course of the year players like Newton should be and will be introduced. But they deserve to be introduced with a fair chance to succeed. Its a big ask for a first gamer to walk straight into a side that is struggle with success.

I agree it will be some time soon, barring issues of form or fitness.

I agree with all the points you have made here. I think we are very much on the same train of thought in regards to playing youngsters. It's common sense more than anything. However, i see one huge anomaly in Neale's selection reasoning and process...

What would have been the reasoning behind picking Garland against Sydney, when the season was still well and truly alive?

Surely, if he could justify picking him then, he can justify picking Newton now, given he has done more to warrant selection than Garland had at the time, and our season is now basically officially over?

i thought miller had a terrific first half to the game, constantly presenting and taking a few strong marks on the lead. after he strained ligaments in his ankle, he came back on but was clearly not right...so he is forgiven.

just coz of a couple of poor performances,

i mean honestly, ignorant, stupid posters such as yourself said davey should be dropped

I'm neither ignorant nor stupid. I go to watch Davey play each week , because i know there is always some magic around the corner.

The statistical analysis by some here to support Millers case for touches is laughable, particularly compared to Robbo and neitz. I don't count goals at the end of the game when all is lost.

He plays CHF for gawds sake.

The single minded support for a player unable to understand a forward's role, nor deliver on the field is astounding

Totally sick of Miller bashers

Why do people expect him to be as good as riewoldt. it is clear to see he is not the most naturally talented player. he does make some bad decisions on the ground, but he leads constantly, presents, contests every ball at 100%. He may not kick many goals but he spends most of his time leading up the ground not sitting in the forward 50. Calls for him to go back to the reserves are premature. No, make that stupid, as he played well yesterday, and came back on after getting injured. Is it the same people that suggested last week that Bruce get dropped? Statistics can be used to prove just about any point you wish to make.

What would have been the reasoning behind picking Garland against Sydney, when the season was still well and truly alive?

Surely, if he could justify picking him then, he can justify picking Newton now, given he has done more to warrant selection than Garland had at the time, and our season is now basically officially over?

Is there any connection with Garland's selection and Newton starting to deliver on his talent? Hmmmmm

At the time of Garland's selection, Newton had not delivered much to that point.

Might have been a wake up call he needed.

Totally sick of Miller bashers

Why do people expect him to be as good as riewoldt. it is clear to see he is not the most naturally talented player. he does make some bad decisions on the ground, but he leads constantly, presents, contests every ball at 100%. He may not kick many goals but he spends most of his time leading up the ground not sitting in the forward 50. Calls for him to go back to the reserves are premature. No, make that stupid, as he played well yesterday, and came back on after getting injured. Is it the same people that suggested last week that Bruce get dropped? Statistics can be used to prove just about any point you wish to make.

Did anyone of us here say that we expect him to be good as Riewoldt?

My point is that while we have Brad Miller playing as one of our key position forwards, our forward line is always going to lack potency.

As much as he works hard and leads up the ground opening space for Neitz and Robbo, a CHF who can actually play as a forward is what we would really like. I'd actually like to see him learn to play as, and become, a good key forward. I just dont think he has enough natural talent to learn the hardest position on the ground at league level, hence sugggestions that he go back to the VFL.

Maybe we arent watching the same game, but i dont think he played well.

Accepting mediocrity, now THATS stupid...

Unfortunately for Millsy, particularly this year he has played well when not many others have. Has been in our best at least twice this year already. Unfortunately the difference between his best and his worst this year, and for most of his career, has been streets apart.

I wouldn't be against sending him to sandy for 2 -3 weeks to relearn the caper but I think he deserves a few more cracks at it in the AFL. Particularly with Dunn being tried through the middle as he is at present.

The statistical analysis by some here to support Millers case for touches is laughable, particularly compared to Robbo and neitz. I don't count goals at the end of the game when all is lost.

He plays CHF for gawds sake.

The single minded support for a player unable to understand a forward's role, nor deliver on the field is astounding

Completely Agree TGRS.

miller is a CHF than any other option we have playing at the moment

newton and garland are both untried

dunn and bate are both in between key forward/midfielder heights, and will only pinch hit at centre half forward

yesterday, miller took 3 good marks, on the lead, out in front, no chest marks, in the hands

if our midfielders kicked it him properly, and quicker, he would take more!!!

If were going to be a top side in the coming years Miller can not be in the side. Like Godfrey you can't knock his commitment but he simply has no talent. Dunn and Bate are ahead of him now. There is not 1 thing Miller can do better than Bate, Miller is not a pack marker so his 2cm advantage to Bate accounts for nothing and besides overhead marking Dunn beats him in all most every other area as well. Miller is a handy fringe player but should not be relyed upon to take over such an important position like CHF.

miller will be a goner this season, you don't win games by marking, you win them by kicking goals. the most important feature of a foward is their goal kicking, if they can't kick goals, then they are useless and shouldn't be in the team.

How many of you miller bashers have actually played CHF??

Miller does most things right as a CHF, he leads hard and looks to give off to a straight running kicker...you dont want him to stay around the 50...we want him to be leading to the wings and dishing off to someone who can hit the FF line on the chest or goal them selves...does anyone think that he hasnt been told to lead strongly up the ground and get possies on the wing/ center line...if thats your problem then take it up with the coaching staff not millsy because i have no doubt that he is doing everything that has been instructed to him

How many of you miller bashers have actually played CHF??

Miller does most things right as a CHF, he leads hard and looks to give off to a straight running kicker...you dont want him to stay around the 50...we want him to be leading to the wings and dishing off to someone who can hit the FF line on the chest or goal them selves...does anyone think that he hasnt been told to lead strongly up the ground and get possies on the wing/ center line...if thats your problem then take it up with the coaching staff not millsy because i have no doubt that he is doing everything that has been instructed to him

Clearly you havent played CHF because the prime objective of the CHF is to win the ball and use it to the benefit of your side.

Miller just does not get the ball and when he does not hurt the opposition. That's the player not the FD. He may well be directed to lead up on the centre because he struggles to win possessions elsewhere and has little presence inside 50. FWIW, I would happily grant top forwards easy possessions in no man's land because it means they are not getting in the F50.

Has anyone else noticed that when Miller plays well (better) Melbourne tend to play bad and when Miller plays bad, Melbourne tend to play well (better)?

He may well be directed to lead up on the centre because he struggles to win possessions elsewhere and has little presence inside 50.

Thats a little silly, your saying that he has that little impact in the forward line that he is told to lead up towards the wings??? Yet these seem to be his directions everyweek??? Yet he does this everyweek and doesnt get dropped?? So he has so little impact everyweek yet doesnt get dropped?? Im confused. I reakon the FD think he is doing a good job and doing the job that he is assigned to do or shorly after 3-4 years of this he would have been both dropped and delisted. dont you think??