3 hours ago, monoccular said:

Fact is we went into both finals with threadbare C- forwards yet still were within a couple of better shots at goal, a shonky ARC and a spot of luck from getting into a GF. 

So we did remarkably well, all things considered.  I challenge any coach to win 3 finals with a makeshift forward line

Disappointment aside, the facts need to be addressed.  To win big you need talent and without a functioning forward line, you can get close but ultimately, you'll get exposed

Win 3 finals with a makeshift, C- forward line?  That's a big ask and I doubt whether it's ever been done

Edited October 15, 20231 yr by Macca

2 hours ago, leave it to deever said:

and Tmac a second chance after the Prelim wasn't a good call for me.

Who would you have played up forward instead of T-Mac?

As I see it all our key forwards were injured or suspended going into the SF

Even on 1 leg we had no other alternatives ... as it was, we went into the SF with I key forward only and T-Mac was also the 2nd ruck

So who were the alternates?

37 minutes ago, Macca said:

Who would you have played up forward instead of T-Mac?

As I see it all our key forwards were injured or suspended going into the SF

Even on 1 leg we had no other alternatives ... as it was, we went into the SF with I key forward only and T-Mac was also the 2nd ruck

So who were the alternates?

Gawn more forward and Grundy into the ruck.

Yes, Gawn’s kicking isn’t great but his contested marking forward was a huge issue for Carlton’s backline.

I also would have had Petracca play forward more.

6 minutes ago, Super Sub Schache said:

Gawn more forward and Grundy into the ruck.

Yes, Gawn’s kicking isn’t great but his contested marking forward was a huge issue for Carlton’s backline.

I also would have had Petracca play forward more.

Grundy had checked out or wasn't under consideration (in my view)

If he was under consideration he's the sub instead of Schache (surely)

And with Brayshaw taken out, we needed Petracca on the ball.  Perhaps we could have played Petracca forward more but that in effect, weakens our midfield (shifting the problem)

So @dazzledavey36

If you miss a shot at goal do you blame your coach? 

Or if you get injured, do you also blame your coach? 

@dazzledavey36

So how would rate our forward line going into the SF?  On available talent

What was your practical alternative?

1 hour ago, Super Sub Schache said:

Gawn more forward and Grundy into the ruck.

Yes, Gawn’s kicking isn’t great but his contested marking forward was a huge issue for Carlton’s backline.

I also would have had Petracca play forward more.

FMD, that was plan A when we recruited Grundy and it didn't work and that's why he's now at Sydney.

19 hours ago, Macca said:

Who would you have played up forward instead of T-Mac?

As I see it all our key forwards were injured or suspended going into the SF

Even on 1 leg we had no other alternatives ... as it was, we went into the SF with I key forward only and T-Mac was also the 2nd ruck

So who were the alternates?

Grundy,Schache or even Tommo.

I know they are not great choices but Tmac was completely cooked.

I get that most of our finals failings hinged on just plain dumb luck, I still think selections of Tmac and Laurie were not the best.

 

 

 

Edited October 15, 20231 yr by leave it to deever

19 hours ago, Macca said:

So we did remarkably well, all things considered.  I challenge any coach to win 3 finals with a makeshift forward line

Disappointment aside, the facts need to be addressed.  To win big you need talent and without a functioning forward line, you can get close but ultimately, you'll get exposed

Win 3 finals with a makeshift, C- forward line?  That's a big ask and I doubt whether it's ever been done

It's a fair point. One could argue however that with Bbb and Tmac the writing was on the wall 18 months ago with injuries and form.

It's not solely incumbent on Goody but did we really uncover every stone to find alternatives or just think that the Grundy/ Gawn experience would cover them? I think we were lucky that Milk came back from the twos with a nice purple patch.

I guess as for recruiting, I don't really know. I do accept your point that it's near impossible to win a finals campaign with the players available and we did well all things being considered.

2 minutes ago, leave it to deever said:

Grundy,Schache or even Tommo.

I know there not great choices 

Wouldn't have made much difference at all and we might have been worse off

So not the fault of the coach

Just now, leave it to deever said:

 One could argue however that with Bbb and Tmac the writing was on the wall 18 months ago with injuries and form.

But you didn't say that or know that at the time.  None of us did

You're using hindsight to strengthen your argument 

1 minute ago, Macca said:

Wouldn't have made much difference at all and we might have been worse off

So not the fault of the coach

Disagree. Not to bang on about Tmac but he had no impact in either final so for me it's hard to see us being worse off. And Laurie wasn't ready to play a whole prelim after only five Afl games ever.

Just now, leave it to deever said:

Disagree. Not to bang on about Tmac but he had no impact in either final so for me it's hard to see us being worse off. And Laurie wasn't ready to play a whole prelim after only five Afl games ever.

And what were Schache & Tomlinson going to do?  Neither are forwards of any note

Grundy wasn't under consideration and he's no forward either

Face it, we ran out of options in the forward line (in terms of injuries) and that's all there is to it

Just now, Macca said:

And what were Schache & Tomlinson going to do?  Neither are forwards of any note

Grundy wasn't under consideration and he's no forward either

Face it, we ran out of options in the forward line (in terms of injuries) and that's all there is to it

You got me.

24 minutes ago, leave it to deever said:

You got me.

As disappointed as we were in exiting the finals the way we did, September football exposes weaknesses

Ours was a forward line that lacked quality and marking power.  And to win the flag you can't hope to win 3 finals with a makeshift forward line

And that's not an excuse, it's a reason

For what it's worth, the reasoning on why we exited doesn't make me feel any better

 

1 minute ago, Macca said:

As disappointed as we were in exiting the finals the way we did, September football exposes weaknesses

Ours was a forward line that lacked quality and marking power.  And to win the flag you can't hope to win 3 finals with a makeshift forward line

And that's not an excuse, it's a reason

For what it's worth, the reasoning on why we exited doesn't make me feel any better

 

still shouldn't have exited in straight sets. A lot of poor decision making and skill errors from our mids especially.

7 minutes ago, chook fowler said:

still shouldn't have exited in straight sets. A lot of poor decision making and skill errors from our mids especially.

A lot of our errors and poor decisions from our mids were caused by the pressure from the opposition ... and we need to fix that

Yze was our mids coach so the faults can be sent his way.  Put it this way, if it's no fault of Yze why did we have him in his role?  What was he there for?

And I'd argue that if Petty, JVR & Melksham had have played instead of Smith, T-Mac & Chandler, we don't exit in straight sets

Brayshaw being taken out hurt as well as Petracca couldn't be used forward as much

But these things happen and let's not forget that we got a dream run with injuries in 2021

1 hour ago, Macca said:

And I'd argue that if Petty, JVR & Melksham had have played instead of Smith, T-Mac & Chandler, we don't exit in straight se

Absolutely. We would all be watching the Gf replay.

 

 

 

2 hours ago, Macca said:

And what were Schache & Tomlinson going to do?  Neither are forwards of any note

Grundy wasn't under consideration and he's no forward either

Face it, we ran out of options in the forward line (in terms of injuries) and that's all there is to it

Why wasnt Grundy considered What the hell happened?He was not injured he was contracted he was paid he went to training???

12 minutes ago, Kent said:

Why wasnt Grundy considered What the hell happened?He was not injured he was contracted he was paid he went to training???

It's a mystery unless a modicum of logic is applied ... but that logic can be flawed logic haha

5 hours ago, Kent said:

Why wasnt Grundy considered What the hell happened?He was not injured he was contracted he was paid he went to training???

Would like to know the full scoop.

On 16/10/2023 at 09:22, Macca said:

As disappointed as we were in exiting the finals the way we did, September football exposes weaknesses

Ours was a forward line that lacked quality and marking power.  And to win the flag you can't hope to win 3 finals with a makeshift forward line

And that's not an excuse, it's a reason

For what it's worth, the reasoning on why we exited doesn't make me feel any better

 

And yet I really believe that if Gus wasn't so unfairly knocked out we probably would have beaten the pies. Our defence has been the best about. I really feel positive about next year. Just hope we can find a decent back up ruck and at least one experienced forward.

18 hours ago, leave it to deever said:

Would like to know the full scoop.

It'll eventually be in someone's auto/biography.

My bet's on Max's. It'd be the most entertaining. Simon's or Brodie's might have a 'different' slant?

Or maybe it's drilled into in 'Gus & Gawny - The 20th Anniversary Edition'?

34 minutes ago, leave it to deever said:

And yet I really believe that if Gus wasn't so unfairly knocked out we probably would have beaten the pies. Our defence has been the best about. I really feel positive about next year. Just hope we can find a decent back up ruck and at least one experienced forward.

Well we're running out of time to pick up an experienced forward and we may feel we've got the personnel anyway

The issue with the forward line is staying healthy along with the delivery to the forwards ... and our forwards need to be able to create separation better as well

McQualter coming on board with new ideas is sure to sharpen things up in that area

So Fullarton (Forward/Ruck) and McAdam (small forward) have been added to JVR, Petty, Smith, Fritsch, Chandler & Kozzie with some back up from Brown & T-Mac (if required) Melksham might be available at the back-end of '24

And in the games where Fullarton plays, Gawn can push forward occasionally as more of a surprise packet

And if we bolster our midfield (2 x midfield/utility types?) then we can safely push Petracca forward whenever required

And I agree with you with regards Brayshaw

4 minutes ago, Macca said:

Well we're running out of time to pick up an experienced forward and we may feel we've got the personnel anyway

The issue with the forward line is staying healthy along with the delivery to the forwards ... and our forwards need to be able to create separation better as well

McQualter coming on board with new ideas is sure to sharpen things up in that area

So Fullarton (Forward/Ruck) and McAdam (small forward) have been added to JVR, Petty, Smith, Fritsch, Chandler & Kozzie with some back up from Brown & T-Mac (if required) Melksham might be available at the back-end of '24

And in the games where Fullarton plays, Gawn can push forward occasionally as more of a surprise packet

And if we bolster our midfield (2 x midfield/utility types?) then we can safely push Petracca forward whenever required

And I agree with you with regards Brayshaw

We need to step it up. We both agree that injury has depleted our fwd line for some time. As such I think it's a big risk to hope Bbb and Tmac will come good. Despite a good season, Milk is getting on in years. Petty has his foot issues too. Fritta ditto. I hope we can find at least one, asap. I think Jvr will have a bumper season. He just needs to be a little more careful with his aggression. Would love too see a fully unencumbered Petty play fwd all year.