3 minutes ago, Lord Nev said:

You're complaining about the 8 players we've re-signed, so 8 plus 8 equals 16.

Here's the part where I didnt say that...like at alll...

21 hours ago, AaronDaveyChipsAndGravey said:

ANB has to be hanging something on the footy department. How he has a 2 year deal is unfathomable and is exactly the kind of decision why we’ll be stuck as a mediocre team forever.

Other than that at their very best, Lockhart, Smith and maybe Baker could be best 22. The others - not a chance.

Happy with Corey Wagner on a rookie spot, however re-signing Josh seems like a mistake.

 

8 minutes ago, AaronDaveyChipsAndGravey said:

Here's the part where I didnt say that...like at alll...

That's how you're trying to sell it now. But to me, that reads like you're happy with Corey in a rookie spot but the rest you don't want.

Because in your other posts you bang on about "best 22" all the time.

We just perceive how lists work differently mate. You seem to think anyone not "best 22" (which isn't even a thing btw) should be delisted and replaced by some imaginary gun player we will pick up without having to trade or use a draft pick for. Then you get all upset about their imaginary over the top salaries that you're convinced they have. I find myself not excited by the re-signings but at least try to understand how it all fits together under a salary cap and with the limitations on bringing in substantially better quality of depth without having anything at all to use to get it.

Edited September 26, 20195 yr by Lord Nev

1 minute ago, Lord Nev said:

That's how you're trying to sell it now. But to me, that reads like you're happy with Corey in a rookie spot but the rest you don't want.

Because in your other posts you bang on about "best 22" all the time.

We just perceive how lists work differently mate. You seem to think anyone not "best 22" (which isn't even a thing btw) should be delisted and replaced by some imaginary gun player we will pick up without having to trade or use a draft pick for. Then you get all upset about their imaginary over the opt salaries that you're convinced they have. I find myself not excited by the re-signings but at least try to understand how it all fits together under a salary cap and with the limitations on bringing in substantially better quality of depth without having anything at all to use to get it.

Yeah nah good of you to start getting into who said and meant what at what time, if you're going on that then half this forum would resolve to the rubbish you're putting out now. I don't think I could have been any clearer when I said that of the 8 we re-signed, I agreed with Corey, Lockhart, Smith and Baker.

Yes I understand the realities of a list and that not everyone is going to cut it and be part of the seniors at every given moment. What I have a problem with is management re-signing J Wagner and ANB whilst they have consistently had opportunities and proven to be duds that fall into the senior team. That is 2 spots on a list that could be filled by fresher faces with greater potential

10 minutes ago, AaronDaveyChipsAndGravey said:

What I have a problem with is management re-signing J Wagner and ANB whilst they have consistently had opportunities and proven to be duds that fall into the senior team. That is 2 spots on a list that could be filled by fresher faces with greater potential

ANB was a big part of our team in the year we made a prelim.

Wagner is a solid defensive backup when needed.

Are we delisting Gus as well? He had a poor 19 compared to 18.

Your "proven to be duds" sentiment is just the typical rubbish served up on the internet when people try to put across their opinions as truth when the reality is nowhere near it.

But sure, list the (minimum) 10 players we're going to make magically appear via our 5 draft picks, and in what ways they are better than the players you want to delist. As well as how our depth will be effected by bringing in 18 year olds to replace them.

Annnnnnd go.

4 hours ago, jumbo returns said:

Dunkley will be a ripper

that's a big call Jumbo.....hard to predict that in my opinion at this early stage but I hope he's half as good as his brother. I'm more excited about Lockhart. Has showed a little bit of X factor & some goal sense.

Hopefully they all improve & have an impact in 2020. Time will tell.....

 

9 minutes ago, Lord Nev said:

ANB was a big part of our team in the year we made a prelim.

Wagner is a solid defensive backup when needed.

Are we delisting Gus as well? He had a poor 19 compared to 18.

Your "proven to be duds" sentiment is just the typical rubbish served up on the internet when people try to put across their opinions as truth when the reality is nowhere near it.

But sure, list the (minimum) 10 players we're going to make magically appear via our 5 draft picks, and in what ways they are better than the players you want to delist. As well as how our depth will be effected by bringing in 18 year olds to replace them.

Annnnnnd go.

Next to no one improved or was the same as 2018, we fell that far off the cliff. By your logic I’d be delisting all but Max Gawn and Frost. We will be getting 2-3 players with decent experience through trades, leaving about 6-7 spots through draft and rookie selections of which there will be at least 2. Last year we drafted 6 players. Most teams do roughly the same. Stop making up numbers that make no sense, its getting ridiculous.

1 minute ago, Laughing Goat said:

that's a big call Jumbo.....hard to predict that in my opinion at this early stage but I hope he's half as good as his brother. I'm more excited about Lockhart. Has showed a little bit of X factor & some goal sense.

Hopefully they all improve & have an impact in 2020. Time will tell.....

 

Gotta remember he was playing against 17/18 y/o kids up until a few months ago. A full pre-season and the games he played this year are going to be invaluable. Same goes for Lockhart - both of them have a bright future ahead imo

7 minutes ago, AaronDaveyChipsAndGravey said:

Next to no one improved or was the same as 2018, we fell that far off the cliff. By your logic I’d be delisting all but Max Gawn and Frost. We will be getting 2-3 players with decent experience through trades, leaving about 6-7 spots through draft and rookie selections of which there will be at least 2. Last year we drafted 6 players. Most teams do roughly the same. Stop making up numbers that make no sense, its getting ridiculous.

You brought up the number 10 mate. I've already outlined how many it will probably be.

Still waiting on that list....

3 minutes ago, Lord Nev said:

You brought up the number 10 mate. I've already outlined how many it will probably be.

Still waiting on that list....

Alright hero here you go, I may have overesimated one spot but I’ve got 9 for you.

Tomlinson

Langdon

Elliot

Pick 3

Pick 38

Pick 56

Pick 74

Pick 2 Rookie

Pick 20 Rookie

 

 

Comes in and lambasts his fellow supporters and receives special treatment. 

 

4 hours ago, AaronDaveyChipsAndGravey said:

Alright hero here you go, I may have overesimated one spot but I’ve got 9 for you.

Tomlinson

Langdon

Elliot

Pick 3

Pick 38

Pick 56

Pick 74

Pick 2 Rookie

Pick 20 Rookie

Elliot isn’t coming to us.

Your list numbers don’t add up.

Who is this 18 year old we’re taking with pick 74 that’s going to improve our depth more than having ANB on our list next year? Name? I’m assuming “pick 74” will be instant best 22 as well of course, otherwise he’s a failure in your eyes.

Really you just made my point for me. Maybe list management isn’t as easy as you think hey? 

Still waiting for that list btw.

7 hours ago, Lord Nev said:

Elliot isn’t coming to us.

Your list numbers don’t add up.

Who is this 18 year old we’re taking with pick 74 that’s going to improve our depth more than having ANB on our list next year? Name? I’m assuming “pick 74” will be instant best 22 as well of course, otherwise he’s a failure in your eyes.

Really you just made my point for me. Maybe list management isn’t as easy as you think hey? 

Still waiting for that list btw.

I named you 9 of the ten you asked. Since you claim to be all knowing about players being traded re Elliot, do you have any more inside trade goss you’d like to share?

Also how many times do I have to say that I dont believe that everyone we get in is going to be a best 22 player. Stop trying to bend what I’m saying to suit your agenda.

On your logic, the draft seems to be sham and is only worth going to for players below a second round pick. James Hird was pick 79. Im not saying we’ll find him, but even we’ve had some luck at the back end of the draft. Nev Jetta is just one, even Cam Bruce was around pick 65 I recall. 

I’m of the firm belief that we need to be putting time into players that could have a greater potential than those that have shown they arent even great depth players. 

I dont think you understand how development works. Continually giving time, money, resources and games to players who have shown they arent up to it is a waste.

Edited September 26, 20195 yr by AaronDaveyChipsAndGravey

3 hours ago, AaronDaveyChipsAndGravey said:

I named you 9 of the ten you asked.

No you didn't. You listed our draft picks. You haven't named them.

3 hours ago, AaronDaveyChipsAndGravey said:

Since you claim to be all knowing about players being traded re Elliot, do you have any more inside trade goss you’d like to share?

Have never once claimed that, you're getting a bit silly now. What I have heard is that we came hard for Elliot but he's more likely to stay at Collingwood now as they've upped their offer due to rival interest and due to Wells retiring.

3 hours ago, AaronDaveyChipsAndGravey said:

On your logic, the draft seems to be sham and is only worth going to for players below a second round pick. James Hird was pick 79. Im not saying we’ll find him, but even we’ve had some luck at the back end of the draft. Nev Jetta is just one, even Cam Bruce was around pick 65 I recall.

Come on mate. Seriously. Straw clutching at it's finest now.

3 hours ago, AaronDaveyChipsAndGravey said:

I’m of the firm belief that we need to be putting time into players that could have a greater potential than those that have shown they arent even great depth players.

So this anonymous pick 74 has "greater potential" than a 23 year old player who played a key role in our run to a prelim.

3 hours ago, AaronDaveyChipsAndGravey said:

I dont think you understand how development works. Continually giving time, money, resources and games to players who have shown they arent up to it is a waste.

He has shown he's up to it already. You're just one of the many who fall into this trap of thinking every player is either an absolute gun or an absolute spud. I really don't think you have a grasp of how any of this works tbh.

So in saying that, I'm out. We are just way too far apart in this and it's getting boring for me, so can only imagine how boring it is for everyone else reading our argument.

Have a good one. If "pick 74" ends up taking ANB's spot next year then first round is on me.

 

Edited September 27, 20195 yr by Lord Nev

16 hours ago, AaronDaveyChipsAndGravey said:

Here's the part where I didnt say that...like at alll...

 

Typical of our list management or should I say mismanagement. ANB VFL, Corey might MIGHT be useful but Josh very average.And our BEST Defender this year Frost, is at this stage hung out to dry.

STAGGERING!!

21 minutes ago, picket fence said:

Typical of our list management or should I say mismanagement. ANB VFL, Corey might MIGHT be useful but Josh very average.And our BEST Defender this year Frost, is at this stage hung out to dry.

STAGGERING!!

Glad to see im not the only one on here making sense !

41 minutes ago, Lord Nev said:

No you didn't. You listed our draft picks. You haven't named them.

Have never once claimed that, you're getting a bit silly now. What I have heard is that we came hard for Elliot but he's more likely to stay at Collingwood now as they've upped their offer due to rival interest and due to Wells retiring.

Come on mate. Seriously. Straw clutching at it's finest now.

So this anonymous pick 74 has "greater potential" than a 23 year old player who played a key role in our run to a prelim.

He has shown he's up to it already. You're just one of the many who fall into this trap of thinking every player is either an absolute gun or an absolute spud. I really don't think you have a grasp of how any of this works tbh.

So in saying that, I'm out. We are just way too far apart in this and it's getting boring for me, so can only imagine how boring it is for everyone else reading our argument.

Have a good one. If "pick 74" ends up taking ANB's spot next year then first round is on me.

 

Likewise. I’ll take first round if ANB plays more than half the games next year.

13 minutes ago, AaronDaveyChipsAndGravey said:

Likewise. I’ll take first round if ANB plays more than half the games next year.

Square deal mate. Let's hope we're buying these beers at a game in September!

On 9/26/2019 at 12:50 PM, dl4e said:

They are all depth players with Smith and Baker being the best. Some people are being a bit " rude " about the Wagners. I have seen plenty of worse at Melbourne.

dl4 that might be because (like many Demons) you have been exposed to too much Melbourne with so many average or sub par players we've seen over the years and are still seeing.  You and others (and i'm not having a go at you it's just what happens at lessor clubs in any team sport) think this is ok because it's the norm.

Josh would have been delisted from most other lists by now bar maybe the GC,  Norf, the Blues or Aints.

Corey hasn't been in the systen long enough and an extra year makes sense.

6 hours ago, Rusty Nails said:

dl4 that might be because (like many Demons) you have been exposed to too much Melbourne with so many average or sub par players we've seen over the years and are still seeing.  You and others (and i'm not having a go at you it's just what happens at lessor clubs in any team sport) think this is ok because it's the norm.

Josh would have been delisted from most other lists by now bar maybe the GC,  Norf, the Blues or Aints.

Corey hasn't been in the systen long enough and an extra year makes sense.

I think we hang on to depth players for too long hoping they 'll gradually become first 22. The reality is if they don't show much in the first 3 y hang on to them. Better to turn over these types for younger talent. The only exception would be rucks & key position players who take a bit longer. However players like Josh, JKH & even ANB have had time & really not impacted how we hoped. We have really limited who we can draft & trade in by the most resignings  (Wagners etc). I wanted us to draft high end talent ie pick 2 etc & take a risk on a high risk high reward player like for example a Martin or a Bennell type. I wish we had the courage to draft another Jurrah.

10 hours ago, AaronDaveyChipsAndGravey said:

Glad to see im not the only one on here making sense !

You don't usually want Demonland's answer to 'old man yells at the sky', backing up your arguments though.

4 hours ago, samcantstandya said:

I think we hang on to depth players for too long hoping they 'll gradually become first 22. The reality is if they don't show much in the first 3 y hang on to them. Better to turn over these types for younger talent. The only exception would be rucks & key position players who take a bit longer. However players like Josh, JKH & even ANB have had time & really not impacted how we hoped. We have really limited who we can draft & trade in by the most resignings  (Wagners etc). I wanted us to draft high end talent ie pick 2 etc & take a risk on a high risk high reward player like for example a Martin or a Bennell type. I wish we had the courage to draft another Jurrah.

What many don't realise Sam and i made this mistake when i was a young fella as well.....time waits for no man.  The same applies to a club/team that has a few shining lights that you could potentially build a shot at a solid finals stint at (over a few years) and potentially a rare GF appearance (or two if lucky!).

Good leaders and/or players like Big M & Clarry.  And to a lessor extent the likes of a Harmes, May, Lever (if those last two can stay on the park and come in to a season super fit), T-Mac if we ever bring in another genuine KF to see him as our No.2 KF again, Tracc if he comes on, AVB if he can ever get back (not holding my breath) and even Viney if he regains his 2017 form again.  Fritschkreig thereabouts up forward and Melk if he can get a roll happening with fitness and form.  The likes of Hore look promising down back and if Frosty cleans up the disposal a tad and improves again.

Nothing lasts forever and by no means are many of the above world beaters or match turners but if you move with some urgency and clever trades plus a few very skilled and talented youngsters though the draft to add some run, excitement, marking/scoring abiliy and X factor.  You just never know.

Sometimes you have to move super quick and clever in the off season when you see the window slightly ajar.  It can close just as quickly as you glimpsed it being open in this game with a strong gust of wind blowing the wrong way and before you know it we might be so far away again we will be waiting another two or three decades for it to open in a serious way again.

2020 has to be a serious bounce back if we are to flush out some of the excess and fodder at the next trade / draft table and have a chance at a serious finals stint from 2021 to 2023/24 with the current crop still in their prime window and some decent depth at Casey pressing up to keep those in the 22 honest and pushing themselves to greater heights as well.  Without that quality of depth we will continue on struggle street with the odd dead cat bounce every odd year imv.

Edited September 27, 20195 yr by Rusty Nails