The Ashes - 2019

[Wadda We Sing 10,685]

38 minutes ago, Macca said:

In all seriousness I'd be batting Labuschagne at no.5 for the foreseeable future

Renshaw & maybe Burns can slot into the top along with a rejuvinated Warner as well as a possible Harris

I just like the idea of Smith at no.4 & Labuschagne at no.5.  We've got a chance at a soft intro for a possible 10 year batsman.  It's a throwback method but it works.  Ponting played nearly every one of his first 20 tests batting at no.6.

Labuschagne can work his way up the order.  I also believe that opener types can bat at no.3.  Maybe Warner at no.3? 

Shall we start a "Changes for the Fifth Test"  thread Macca? Much like our beloved Demons every week !

The side was down and out 18m ago and has been rebuilding ever since.  Im still not that convinced on anyone except Smith and Cummings tbh. Take those 2 out and its a pretty ordinary side. But thats ok, the others will come on and there will be new additions.

What to do with Dave Warner? Well he opens 1st test in Brisbane in the summer i think. Pakistan is it? Do you send him into the 5th test and tell him to go find some form which he may well do now the pressure is off, or do you give someone else a chance. Drop him down the order? Hes a specialist opener really, so not much point with 1 game to go i guess. Do you rekon they might play a few who havent had a chance so far on the tour? Its been a long summer so a few may well be rested.

Onwards to the Oval.

[Macca 16,972]

3 hours ago, Wadda We Sing said:

Shall we start a "Changes for the Fifth Test"  thread Macca? Much like our beloved Demons every week !

The side was down and out 18m ago and has been rebuilding ever since.  Im still not that convinced on anyone except Smith and Cummings tbh. Take those 2 out and its a pretty ordinary side. But thats ok, the others will come on and there will be new additions.

What to do with Dave Warner? Well he opens 1st test in Brisbane in the summer i think. Pakistan is it? Do you send him into the 5th test and tell him to go find some form which he may well do now the pressure is off, or do you give someone else a chance. Drop him down the order? Hes a specialist opener really, so not much point with 1 game to go i guess. Do you rekon they might play a few who havent had a chance so far on the tour? Its been a long summer so a few may well be rested.

Onwards to the Oval.

Looking ahead to the summer my top 6 might include Alex Carey at no.6.  Played as a batsman only.  He's a talent.

Renshaw at the top with Warner (maybe) Smith & Labuschagne at no.4 & no.5 but that still leaves the no.3 spot open.  Khawaja could get another go at it as it's not like he's the only one who hasn't made runs in this Ashes series.  Joe Burns could be a smoky.

As for the next test,  I reckon we'll probably play the same team with perhaps Bancroft for Harris.  Or Khawaja for Harris.  All the bowlers will want to play but we'd be wise to keep rotating 1 or 2. 

We've won the Ashes but it would be ideal if we could win the series 3 - 1. 

Edited September 9, 2019 by Macca

[Macca 16,972]

Next Test this Thursday ... we'll be up for it you'd imagine whilst England will need to pick themselves up big time. 

Still,  it's a Test match and careers are always on the line even when the games are less important.

Especially for our batsmen ... notably Warner,  Harris,  Head & Wade.  If they all get another chance they'll all be playing for future position's within the team.

Edited September 9, 2019 by Macca

[Macca 16,972]

Credit must be given to Tim Paine as well.

His captaincy apart from a few moments in the 3rd test has been excellent.  Made a vital 60 odd in the first innings of the 4th test and his keeping has been very good (again) 

We lost 4 consecutive series' in England before this triumph and he will always be remembered as the man who captained the 2019 series win.  Same as Adam Gilchrist is remembered as captaining the only winning test series in India (since 1969)

But these are Smith's Ashes much like 1981 was Botham's Ashes.  Langer,  S Waugh & Ponting have played their part too.  We now look and play like Pro's.

[Jara 1,153]

Just noticed Steve Harmison saying Smith will always be regarded as a cheat. Suppose he's right, in a way, but what a sore loser. Smith will be remembered for a lot of other things, much more than the whinging Pom will be.

 

You guys (especially Macca) seem to know more about cricket than I do - would be most interested to know your thoughts. My take on it was that Smith's punishment was over the top - I didn't see Harmison complaining about other players who've done almost as bad and received a fine or a one-match suspension. 

Edited September 11, 2019 by Jara

[Macca 16,972]

3 hours ago, Jara said:

Just noticed Steve Harmison saying Smith will always be regarded as a cheat. Suppose he's right, in a way, but what a sore loser. Smith will be remembered for a lot of other things, much more than the whinging Pom will be.

 

You guys (especially Macca) seem to know more about cricket than I do - would be most interested to know your thoughts. My take on it was that Smith's punishment was over the top - I didn't see Harmison complaining about other players who've done almost as bad and received a fine or a one-match suspension. 

Harmison was part of the ball tampering scandal in the 2005 Ashes.  Lollygate.  Sounds harmless but that cherry of their's swung around like nobody's business for that whole series.  Cheats!  Booooooooo! 

Trescothic was the devil at play and they all knew about it. Strauss,  Vaughan,  Flintoff,  all of them.  So they are hypocrites of the highest  order.

In another series Atherton went out on the field with a pocketful of dirt and there is video available of him applying the dirt along with saliva to the ball.  There might be more to that story - who knows? And he was the captain. 

One could argue that Smith never actually ever knew about the sandpaper.  But it was under his watch so he had to cop the punishment.

Faf du Plessis was directly involved with a ball tampering incident and got off with a slap across the wrist.

There have been a stack of other incidents but we've borne the brunt of the punishments.  CA ruled over the ICC who weren't going to come down hard. 

I am in 2 minds about the punishments handed down.  In one way it sets a great example but what if the rest of the world doesn't follow suit?  Worse still if we're hung out to dry Jara

Warner got off lightly is my personal view.  And Smith was harshly dealt with.  Bancroft fair enough.

Edited September 11, 2019 by Macca

[dl4e 5,851]

On 9/9/2019 at 6:52 PM, Macca said:

Looking ahead to the summer my top 6 might include Alex Carey at no.6.  Played as a batsman only.  He's a talent.

Renshaw at the top with Warner (maybe) Smith & Labuschagne at no.4 & no.5 but that still leaves the no.3 spot open.  Khawaja could get another go at it as it's not like he's the only one who hasn't made runs in this Ashes series.  Joe Burns could be a smoky.

As for the next test,  I reckon we'll probably play the same team with perhaps Bancroft for Harris.  Or Khawaja for Harris.  All the bowlers will want to play but we'd be wise to keep rotating 1 or 2. 

We've won the Ashes but it would be ideal if we could win the series 3 - 1. 

Interesting debate about the openers. Not for the 5th test but future ones I am actually in the Harris and Renshaw camp.

[Macca 16,972]

48 minutes ago, dl4e said:

Interesting debate about the openers. Not for the 5th test but future ones I am actually in the Harris and Renshaw camp.

Pucovski,  Carey & Patterson are in the mix as well ... there's a bit of talent around but more so with regards to unearthing a few batsmen that might have the attributes for Test cricket.

The Labuschagne selection being a good example.  A nice enough technique whilst showing excellent temperament.  Yet he wasn't exactly banging down the door to be selected. 

Hopefully the selectors continue on a similar path in being able to evaluate a young batsmen or 2 looking ahead.  Accumulating runs at the next level down is one thing but can that player excel at the very top against top class bowling? 

Works the same in footy ... a player can dominate for Casey but at AFL level the same player can be found wanting.  But a player might just show the selectors enough that he could play well at AFL level without shining at a lower level.

To me that is the selectors job - Identifying the next top player.

So Pukovski is my prediction to shine bright at Test level.  Excellent technique and just needs to work on his temperament to make it.

And he's a Victorian!

[Jara 1,153]

16 hours ago, Macca said:

Harmison was part of the ball tampering scandal in the 2005 Ashes.  Lollygate.  Sounds harmless but that cherry of their's swung around like nobody's business for that whole series.  Cheats!  Booooooooo! 

Trescothic was the devil at play and they all knew about it. Strauss,  Vaughan,  Flintoff,  all of them.  So they are hypocrites of the highest  order.

In another series Atherton went out on the field with a pocketful of dirt and there is video available of him applying the dirt along with saliva to the ball.  There might be more to that story - who knows? And he was the captain. 

One could argue that Smith never actually ever knew about the sandpaper.  But it was under his watch so he had to cop the punishment.

Faf du Plessis was directly involved with a ball tampering incident and got off with a slap across the wrist.

There have been a stack of other incidents but we've borne the brunt of the punishments.  CA ruled over the ICC who weren't going to come down hard. 

I am in 2 minds about the punishments handed down.  In one way it sets a great example but what if the rest of the world doesn't follow suit?  Worse still if we're hung out to dry Jara

Warner got off lightly is my personal view.  And Smith was harshly dealt with.  Bancroft fair enough.

Thanks Macca - yep, that was more or less as I read it (except, in the interests of consistency, I don't think I agree with you about Warner - I know he was the organiser (and he's a bit of a bogan) but a year out of the game is much more than anybody other than The Sandpaper Threesome has received)    Re Smith, I'm pretty sure I recall them saying he noticed they were planning it and simply gave it a diagonal nod (which was one of the reasons I suspected it was much more common than everybody was admitting, and why I thought their punishment was unfair)  - 

 

Anyway, we've retained the Ashes now, Smith's looking good, so who gives.....  Poms are just doing what they do best - whinging - Cheers

[Macca 16,972]

38 minutes ago, Jara said:

Thanks Macca - yep, that was more or less as I read it (except, in the interests of consistency, I don't think I agree with you about Warner - I know he was the organiser (and he's a bit of a bogan) but a year out of the game is much more than anybody other than The Sandpaper Threesome has received)    Re Smith, I'm pretty sure I recall them saying he noticed they were planning it and simply gave it a diagonal nod (which was one of the reasons I suspected it was much more common than everybody was admitting, and why I thought their punishment was unfair)  - 

 

Anyway, we've retained the Ashes now, Smith's looking good, so who gives.....  Poms are just doing what they do best - whinging - Cheers

I have got a mate who 'never' makes outlandish comments ... and I mean never.

But he reckons all the Australian players knew about the sandpaper including Paine the keeper.

My mate was a keeper himself for 30 years and he was telling me that keepers keep an eye on the state of the ball on a ball by ball basis. Any tiny scuff mark is noticed. 

And the bowlers know too.  I was a bowler myself and used to look after the ball like it was a prized jewel.

So there is almost certainly more to the whole scandal than meets the eye.  Might be one of reasons why CA came down so hard on the 3 players.  The others might count themselves lucky?

Edited September 11, 2019 by Macca

[Diamond_Jim 12,592]

Would like to see a win this Test.

Warner to score along with another batsman so Smith can enjoy himself.

The inclusion of Marsh is underwhelming and I just don't buy the resting of the bowlers excuse given the rotation policy.

An England win would be slightly deflating.

Looking like five days of relative sunshine around 22 degrees max.

And why do the English like dressing up in silly clothes?

Edited September 12, 2019 by Diamond_Jim

[Diamond_Jim 12,592]

Why pick Siddle and Marsh and send a team in

England heading for a big score

[Wadda We Sing 10,685]

26 minutes ago, Diamond_Jim said:

Why pick Siddle and Marsh and send a team in

England heading for a big score

Not looking good so far. Why send a team in when you have the best batsman in the world in your side just itching to go.....

Mind you Roots had 2 lives already. Surely cant last much longer. Lunch soon.

[Macca 16,972]

1 hour ago, Diamond_Jim said:

Why pick Siddle and Marsh and send a team in

England heading for a big score

Looks like it DJ ... dead rubbers nearly always have that strange feel about them.  They're a bit like soccer friendlies.  They don't have the same edge (pardon the pun)

33 minutes ago, Wadda We Sing said:

Not looking good so far. Why send a team in when you have the best batsman in the world in your side just itching to go.....

Mind you Roots had 2 lives already. Surely cant last much longer. Lunch soon.

They want to lessen the workload on Cummins & Hazlewood yet we send them in? 

Would have thought batting first with Warner a chance to save his career was the go.  Dave might still get runs when we bat of course but the wicket seems batsman friendly.

[dl4e 5,851]

Been a poor day so far. Win the toss and bowl. Not a good choice. 2 dropped catches that were pretty easy chances. See if they can overcome the situation or is Root going to go on and make a big one.

The only change I would have made is Warner out. Marsh does not impress me and Siddle for Starc is silly.

[Wadda We Sing 10,685]

23 minutes ago, Macca said:

Looks like it DJ ... dead rubbers nearly always have that strange feel about them.  They're a bit like soccer friendlies.  They don't have the same edge (pardon the pun)

They want to lessen the workload on Cummins & Hazlewood yet we send them in? 

Would have thought batting first with Warner a chance to save his career was the go.  Dave might still get runs when we bat of course but the wicket seems batsman friendly.

It does seem a strange decision at the end of a very long Summer that included a World Cup. They added 2 bowlers basically & Broad and Archer look stuffed in the last game. We could have made a big score on this wicket, batting first and it would be all over. Easy to say in hindsight i guess, but im wondering because weve won the Ashes, do they think they can do no wrong? Going for the kill too soon? Good toss to lose perhaps.

Like you say Macca, a dead rubber and it does have that feel so far. 2 dropped catches and even Smith had to juggle it 3 times. Siddle nowhere near it. Been partying just a little? Its only been a few days, perhaps we will get down to business now.

[Macca 16,972]

6 minutes ago, Wadda We Sing said:

It does seem a strange decision at the end of a very long Summer that included a World Cup. They added 2 bowlers basically & Broad and Archer look stuffed in the last game. We could have made a big score on this wicket, batting first and it would be all over. Easy to say in hindsight i guess, but im wondering because weve won the Ashes, do they think they can do no wrong? Going for the kill too soon? Good toss to lose perhaps.

Like you say Macca, a dead rubber and it does have that feel so far. 2 dropped catches and even Smith had to juggle it 3 times. Siddle nowhere near it. Been partying just a little? Its only been a few days, perhaps we will get down to business now.

I'd party hard if I was part of a winning Ashes series!  Can you imagine?  It would be like being part of an AFL flag. 

They're part of history and it's the biggest prize in the sport.  So we are justifiably rusty? 

We'll probably get going at some stage.  Maybe when we bat. 

 

[Jumping Jack Clennett 1,799]

A slight tinge of green in the pitch, and inexperienced captain Paine says”we’ll have a bowl”.

Shades of Ponting after McGrath trod on the ball.

[Wadda We Sing 10,685]

38 minutes ago, Macca said:

I'd party hard if I was part of a winning Ashes series!  Can you imagine?  It would be like being part of an AFL flag. 

They're part of history and it's the biggest prize in the sport.  So we are justifiably rusty? 

We'll probably get going at some stage.  Maybe when we bat. 

 

Well its warm beer Macca thats the thing. If i was forced to party with that id be dropping catches as well !! Crazy shot by Stokes gets us off the hook.

386 the average score at this ground batting first.

[Diamond_Jim 12,592]

56 minutes ago, Jumping Jack Clennett said:

A slight tinge of green in the pitch, and inexperienced captain Paine says”we’ll have a bowl”.

Shades of Ponting after McGrath trod on the ball.

There's not much doubt that Langer runs this team.

If they had taken the Root chances it may have been different but 300 plus is looking inevitable

[Diamond_Jim 12,592]

two quick wickets after tea.

Game on

All out for around 250 would justify sending them in

[Wadda We Sing 10,685]

8 hours ago, Diamond_Jim said:

two quick wickets after tea.

Game on

All out for around 250 would justify sending them in

Went to bed at Tea. Looking at the stumps score 8/271, did they score pretty slowly in the last session? Getting close to 300 now, not good. 250 max i would have thought. Still if you hold your catches.....

[Diamond_Jim 12,592]

6 minutes ago, Wadda We Sing said:

Went to bed at Tea. Looking at the stumps score 8/271, did they score pretty slowly in the last session? Getting close to 300 now, not good. 250 max i would have thought. Still if you hold your catches.....

They lost 5 for 50 from when Root went out but the current pair have put on 45runs for the ninth wicket.

Overall a decent performance by Australia with many English players getting good starts. Australia will need to wrap up this partnership before it does damage.

I still don't think it was a smart move putting them in.

[Wadda We Sing 10,685]

10 hours ago, Diamond_Jim said:

They lost 5 for 50 from when Root went out but the current pair have put on 45runs for the ninth wicket.

Overall a decent performance by Australia with many English players getting good starts. Australia will need to wrap up this partnership before it does damage.

I still don't think it was a smart move putting them in.

It was a crazy move to put them in, you never do it unless there is a clear advantage.

294 is a good score, and we answer with 2/14. Smith and Charlemagne to the rescue.........Archer bowling well.

[dl4e 5,851]

1 hour ago, Wadda We Sing said:

It was a crazy move to put them in, you never do it unless there is a clear advantage.

294 is a good score, and we answer with 2/14. Smith and Charlemagne to the rescue.........Archer bowling well.

I agree. Would have batted but I don't think 294 is a good score. A minimum of 400 on what looks like a good batting pitch.