the AFL should just send you a text asking who gets the brownlow

and maybe you shouldn't need to give your opinion on players, we can read it in the B&F votes.

You probably were right about the two captains but like everyone else you struggled to find a viable alternative at the time. If you had your time over, who would you make skipper?

somebody with at least a few years under the belt

Frawley Dunn Jones

To give the Captaincy to babies of an AFL Club is just inexcusable.

Regardless of our thin stocks Frank Grimes & Trengove should not have been even remotely considered.

Neeld killed his career and 2 others by doing it

Fool

"On Grimes - I like the way he goes about it but he does need to clean up the clangers." Frightfully bad last year!

Agree he needs to work hard on this he appears to have gone backwards over the last 2 years. I am hopefull now he has clear air he will be the player we all hoped he would become

it interesting that the smacking the Frawley got from most on here - he finished 8th in the B&F.

I think (in very rare cases) a little bit of ballot engineering goes on - like when you know a bloke is leaving the club and you want to do everything you can to make sure he attracts a contract that will qualify for band 1 compensation

I've watched a whole bunch of replays lately (in addition of course to seeing each game at least twice during the year) and I have not found myself missing Frawley too much at all. The Adelaide win was our best match for the year and he was seriously worst on ground.

On Watts, he is a perfect example. Everybody here still wants him to be Nick Riewoldt - and they feel annoyed and cheated that he isn't. When he puts in a good game he always gets jibbed by demonland in favour of a lovechild such as Viney. Even Jones, who continually wins votes anyway, gets jibbed because he is totally taken for granted on demonland. He does 50-100% more damage than say, Tyson, for the same amount of votes. As I say, there is a huge bias towards youth on here - I am sure AB+CP will get a bunch of votes at some stage in 2015 because they did 1 or 2 good things. I don't think the coaches compile their votes with anywhere near as much bias.

and maybe you shouldn't need to give your opinion on players, we can read it in the B&F votes.

no I'm serious mate, you've said your opinion is more valuable than the coaching staff - forget just giving you the voting rights, I really think you should just replace the whole panel on game day and make all the moves. That's how accurate your opinion is.

I think (in very rare cases) a little bit of ballot engineering goes on - like when you know a bloke is leaving the club and you want to do everything you can to make sure he attracts a contract that will qualify for band 1 compensation

I've watched a whole bunch of replays lately (in addition of course to seeing each game at least twice during the year) and I have not found myself missing Frawley too much at all. The Adelaide win was our best match for the year and he was seriously worst on ground.

On Watts, he is a perfect example. Everybody here still wants him to be Nick Riewoldt - and they feel annoyed and cheated that he isn't. When he puts in a good game he always gets jibbed by demonland in favour of a lovechild such as Viney. Even Jones, who continually wins votes anyway, gets jibbed because he is totally taken for granted on demonland. He does 50-100% more damage than say, Tyson, for the same amount of votes. As I say, there is a huge bias towards youth on here - I am sure AB+CP will get a bunch of votes at some stage in 2015 because they did 1 or 2 good things. I don't think the coaches compile their votes with anywhere near as much bias.

Now I am seriously worried about your mental state C and B!

I think (in very rare cases) a little bit of ballot engineering goes on - like when you know a bloke is leaving the club and you want to do everything you can to make sure he attracts a contract that will qualify for band 1 compensation

I've watched a whole bunch of replays lately (in addition of course to seeing each game at least twice during the year) and I have not found myself missing Frawley too much at all. The Adelaide win was our best match for the year and he was seriously worst on ground.

On Watts, he is a perfect example. Everybody here still wants him to be Nick Riewoldt - and they feel annoyed and cheated that he isn't. When he puts in a good game he always gets jibbed by demonland in favour of a lovechild such as Viney. Even Jones, who continually wins votes anyway, gets jibbed because he is totally taken for granted on demonland. He does 50-100% more damage than say, Tyson, for the same amount of votes. As I say, there is a huge bias towards youth on here - I am sure AB+CP will get a bunch of votes at some stage in 2015 because they did 1 or 2 good things. I don't think the coaches compile their votes with anywhere near as much bias.

Frawley did have some games where he didn't look all that interested - but it wont get acknowledged here that he also had some good games. As poor as many considered him this season - he still took the 3rd most marks in the league and he was playing mainly forward this year so he wasnt getting the cheap chip backwards marks in defence.

I don't think Grimes has deserved to be in the top 10 for last 2 years - i see some talent in him but his turnovers make me wince.

Frawley did have some games where he didn't look all that interested - but it wont get acknowledged here that he also had some good games. As poor as many considered him this season - he still took the 3rd most marks in the league and he was playing mainly forward this year so he wasnt getting the cheap chip backwards marks in defence.

I don't think Grimes has deserved to be in the top 10 for last 2 years - i see some talent in him but his turnovers make me wince.

Oh Dear are you reading my mind nutbean?

Exactly my thoughts.

somebody with at least a few years under the belt

Frawley Dunn Jones

You have proved Goodvibes point

Frawley had played 80 games and is not a recognised leader at the club.

Dunn was a fringe player who played 11 games in 2011 and was good a jumper punching.

In hindsight Jones would have been a better bet but has done little to date to establish his credentials.

While the Two jacks decision was poor, there was no clear cut or obvious alternatives at the time.

And if Neeld had not have come in and immediately destroyed his relationships with the few existing senior players there might have been broader options.

But it boggles that the MFC "brains trust" gave a newly appointed coach with no senior coaching experience a blank page to re write the club culture.

Now I am seriously worried about your mental state C and B!

I know I am not alone with the match replay overviews mate!

Think I might chuck another one on now.. maybe watch Salem rip out Essendon's heart for about the 5th time :D

Frawley did have some games where he didn't look all that interested - but it wont get acknowledged here that he also had some good games. As poor as many considered him this season - he still took the 3rd most marks in the league and he was playing mainly forward this year so he wasnt getting the cheap chip backwards marks in defence.

I don't think Grimes has deserved to be in the top 10 for last 2 years - i see some talent in him but his turnovers make me wince.

Well.. with all those marks and all that time forward he kicked 15 goals in 21 games...

Happy to swap him for Brayshaw

Agree on Grimes

no I'm serious mate, you've said your opinion is more valuable than the coaching staff - forget just giving you the voting rights, I really think you should just replace the whole panel on game day and make all the moves. That's how accurate your opinion is.

Now I will get back to my point...I think Grimes will be ok.

You have proved Goodvibes point

Frawley had played 80 games and is not a recognised leader at the club.

Dunn was a fringe player who played 11 games in 2011 and was good a jumper punching.

In hindsight Jones would have been a better bet but has done little to date to establish his credentials.

While the Two jacks decision was poor, there was no clear cut or obvious alternatives at the time.

And if Neeld had not have come in and immediately destroyed his relationships with the few existing senior players there might have been broader options.

But it boggles that the MFC "brains trust" gave a newly appointed coach with no senior coaching experience a blank page to re write the club culture.

And who knows what type of impact the captaincy may have had on Jones three years ago. I remember at the time thinking how horrible all the options were. I thought Trengove in particular and Grimes were natural leaders but was worried about their inexperience. So glad this horrible chapter is in the past. Jones could quite easily be our captain for the next few seasons. Viney would be nicely placed to take over assuming his game develops to anticipated levels.

I reckon he was pushed, I have always preferred a sole captain

Viney's not ready, should have gone with Wines, although that's water under the bridge.

Well.. with all those marks and all that time forward he kicked 15 goals in 21 games...

Happy to swap him for Brayshaw

Agree on Grimes

Most of his marks were from hit up leads high half forward / wing. Who had the 3rd most inside 50's for us ? Frawley - tells you where he was getting his kicks.

I'll reserve judgement on my thoughts on Brayshaw for Frawley after I see how Brayshaw goes.

I will concede that pick 3 for Frawley is above market value - but pick 3 is only a number - lets see how the player goes.

And who knows what type of impact the captaincy may have had on Jones three years ago. I remember at the time thinking how horrible all the options were. I thought Trengove in particular and Grimes were natural leaders but was worried about their inexperience. So glad this horrible chapter is in the past. Jones could quite easily be our captain for the next few seasons. Viney would be nicely placed to take over assuming his game develops to anticipated levels.

Agree about Jones. At the end of 2011, he wasn't the leader he is now. And there was the risk you speak about that it would have adversely impacted him.

I will concede that pick 3 for Frawley is above market value - but pick 3 is only a number - lets see how the player goes.

Disagree we have lost a match hardened KPP who has been sought after by the reigning premiers and we get an unproven junior who has potential but will likely take 3-5 years to validate that potential.

Can't see how we got above market value unless Brayshaw is a Gary Ablettt clone.

Grimes made the correct decision...............totally!

I'm not particularly fussed if he was pushed or he decided (though I'd have thought it was a bit of both).

It's a good outcome for both him and the club so the right decision was made.