Gasp, yet another thread of shirt-rending and flagellation. How about putting the same energy into considering how to deal with FA. We'd be in trouble over time with that even we had been better in recent years and had escaped its worst consequences now.

There's nothing wrong with flagellation

Praise the Lord!

Clark and Dawes say "hi"!

Hello Monoccular, not sure what your statement means regarding C & D saying 'hi'.

Both Clark and Dawes are paid much more than they were on at previous clubs, so whether or not you intended supporting my case, you have just done so.

Do you think they would be with us for less money?

Few of us would argue that their on-field value has not, as yet, matched our expectations. I know they have been injured, but paying big money for players with a history of injuries (particularly the case for Dawes) is fraught with danger.

Let's hope we get a more equitable outcome in 2014.

Hello Monoccular, not sure what your statement means regarding C & D saying 'hi'.

Both Clark and Dawes are paid much more than they were on at previous clubs, so whether or not you intended supporting my case, you have just done so.

Do you think they would be with us for less money?

Few of us would argue that their on-field value has not, as yet, matched our expectations. I know they have been injured, but paying big money for players with a history of injuries (particularly the case for Dawes) is fraught with danger.

Let's hope we get a more equitable outcome in 2014.

Aren't the majority of players that go to new clubs paid more?

The fact of the matter is that Dawes and Clark came to the Dees during Neelds tenure.

Money is usually a big factor but we know publicly that it wasn't a big driver for Dawes - he is studying to be a lawyer and was more concerned about where he was going to (both club and position wise).

Praise the Lord!

......and pass the ammunition.

Can I be honest and say who gives a rats if we are paying overs for Clark, Dawes and whatever other numpty we can convince to come here? We're paying heaps and front loading the stuffing out of these contracts, so that they won't cause us any long term pain when (if) the wheel eventually turns.

As I've said on these boards before, we have to pay someone, better to pay a good player overs than a whole lots of spuds an extra $20k each just to get up to the minimum TPP...

We offered exactly the same for Mitch Clark as Freo. The difference was we got his partner into Melbourne Uni and she didn't want to go to Perth. This is from a player agent.

WB offered Dawes more than we did.

And as undeeterred said - we actually have to pay out a minimum %age of the TPP. And we've been struggling to do that - many contracts havebeen front loaded.

t m I wish people would stop using Port as an example.

They had a way better playing group than us as a start. I know is handy to hang to on the Port example to make us all feel like there is a large chance of a big improvement in 2014 .However IMO we do not have the same quality base.

As you say above I think the best we can hope for is a couple of more wins and be competitive in most others.

It is going to take at minimum 2 years to be a competitive side capable of moving out of the bottom four.

I totally agree OD. It

was even worse when people would point to Hawthorn as an example.

Look where they were 7 -8 years ago!! In response I say, where are the potential Franklin, Hodge, Rioli, Mitchell, Roughead, Lewis (well, maybe Jones?) et al on the Melbourne list?

Aren't the majority of players that go to new clubs paid more?

The fact of the matter is that Dawes and Clark came to the Dees during Neelds tenure.

Money is usually a big factor but we know publicly that it wasn't a big driver for Dawes - he is studying to be a lawyer and was more concerned about where he was going to (both club and position wise).

We just paid more than the market would for those players. Clark I understand but Dawes was well above his going rate. I hope he repays it in 2014.

We just paid more than the market would for those players. Clark I understand but Dawes was well above his going rate. I hope he repays it in 2014.

Let's hope!

Thanks to those who stuffed this club prior to the new regime. Free agency and trades will make strong clubs stronger while the rest rot in the background. Equalisation is further away day by day.

I am furious that the MFC is not a club of choice for future jets, previous administrations should hang their heads in shame.

Agree & maybe Schawby should do an article in The Age on how to destroy a culture & drive any decent players out of a footy club!

As a football club we need now to control the current & future as a club of choice with culture & development!

Whilst its great that Roos is the coach it appears that this may be short term & unclear of the coach in waiting scenario......Please take this as a negative rather as constructive as i thinks Roos will be great.