Abbott has made my life better by axing the carbon tax and stopping the boats. I note they were both promises from before the election.

If you believe a politician is morally superior to Abbott at least say who and we can debate it.

  On 05/07/2015 at 10:05, Wrecker45 said:

Abbott has made my life better by axing the carbon tax and stopping the boats. I note they were both promises from before the election.

If you believe a politician is morally superior to Abbott at least say who and we can debate it.

Wrecker can you please first explain the direct positive impacts on you personally of those two changes? Lower power prices perhaps but it was minor at best. Boat people's direct impact on you?

  On 05/07/2015 at 10:05, Wrecker45 said:

Abbott has made my life better by axing the carbon tax and stopping the boats. I note they were both promises from before the election.

If you believe a politician is morally superior to Abbott at least say who and we can debate it.

Most politicians, as noted in my previous post, are an amoral lot. It's just the fact that Abbott is more amoral than most is why he is 'winning' if that's how you term it. With Bill Shorten as opposition leader, the competition isn't exactly stiff.

I would also echo Hood's question. How has 'stopping the boats' (which is a furphy in itself as the goal posts have been moved) actually personally effected you?

  On 05/07/2015 at 11:34, Colin B. Flaubert said:

Most politicians, as noted in my previous post, are an amoral lot. It's just the fact that Abbott is more amoral than most is why he is 'winning' if that's how you term it. With Bill Shorten as opposition leader, the competition isn't exactly stiff.

I would also echo Hood's question. How has 'stopping the boats' (which is a furphy in itself as the goal posts have been moved) actually personally effected you?

It has a twofold effect for me.

1) I don't like people dying at sea. Perhaps I don't personally benefit but I don't like people dying.

2) my family, friends and team Australia are much safer when we choose who to accept in our country.

  On 05/07/2015 at 10:05, Wrecker45 said:

Abbott has made my life better by axing the carbon tax and stopping the boats. I note they were both promises from before the election.

If you believe a politician is morally superior to Abbott at least say who and we can debate it.

the rabbott has made my life worse, by stopping the carbon tax/cost on carbon, & I am also worse off with his & greasy Joes furthering budgetary deficits.

electricity bills have gone UP, not down, as promised... by that waskily electioneering wabbot.

also the other rising costs on things, & the losses of our own car industry & associated local support industries

we are all going to pay for the ineptness of his climate change ignorance.

  On 05/07/2015 at 11:34, Colin B. Flaubert said:

Most politicians, as noted in my previous post, are an amoral lot. It's just the fact that Abbott is more amoral than most is why he is 'winning' if that's how you term it. With Bill Shorten as opposition leader, the competition isn't exactly stiff.

I would also echo Hood's question. How has 'stopping the boats' (which is a furphy in itself as the goal posts have been moved) actually personally effected you?

shorty is trying to be someone he's not; the rabbot is being what he is (tightly scripted), with his nuts in his Pet's inCredlinable squirrel grip.

the rabbot is hiding behind the labor party's belated offshore processing in the new guinea controlled areas, as well as the howard regimes Nauru.... the rabbot declined to allow Bi-Partisan support of off-shore processing with Malaysia I think it was, which would have allowed the transfer of refugees, for economic refugees. With some Sth-East Asian nations. (forgotten exactly which nations it was)

We could have had some Buddhist refugees as transferees.

  On 05/07/2015 at 13:14, dee-luded said:

we are all going to pay for the ineptness of his climate change ignorance.

Show me one scientist or expert who predicted a 17 year hiatus in warming, whilst carbon emissions increased. A hiutus which is recognised by the IPCC. If you can't point me to one I will show you who is ignorant.

  On 05/07/2015 at 13:29, Wrecker45 said:

Show me one scientist or expert who predicted a 17 year hiatus in warming, whilst carbon emissions increased. A hiutus which is recognised by the IPCC. If you can't point me to one I will show you who is ignorant.

I don't need to show you anything, wrecker. the rabbot & cohorts are wrecking this place

  On 05/07/2015 at 13:29, Wrecker45 said:

Show me one scientist or expert who predicted a 17 year hiatus in warming, whilst carbon emissions increased. A hiutus which is recognised by the IPCC. If you can't point me to one I will show you who is ignorant.

how many personal face to face talks have you had with the scientists directly, who are in the modelling of the climate change issue?

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2013-10-30/climate-change-authority-emissions-trading-scheme/5057258

http://www.un.org/climatechange/blog/2015/05/international-transport-forum/

http://www.un.org/climatechange/blog/2015/05/leaders-gather-vatican-historic-meeting-climate-change-sustainable-development/

http://marksilk.religionnews.com/2015/06/18/reduce-carbon-emissions-pope-tells-world/

http://www.un.org/climatechange/blog/2014/09/business-play-key-role-carbon-pricing/

http://www.bloomberg.com/politics/articles/2015-03-19/obama-orders-40-reduction-in-carbon-emissions-by-u-s-agencies

http://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/canada-sets-carbon-emissions-reduction-target-of-30-by-2030-1.3075759

http://www.theguardian.com/environment/2015/apr/14/dutch-government-facing-legal-action-over-failure-to-reduce-carbon-emissions

http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2008/oct/16/greenpolitics-edmiliband

http://www.smh.com.au/federal-politics/political-news/economists-back-carbon-pricing-as-effective-tool-against-climate-change-20140313-34pkt.html

you're a bit of a shag wrecker

Phalacrocorax perspicillatus

  On 05/07/2015 at 12:00, Wrecker45 said:

It has a twofold effect for me.

1) I don't like people dying at sea. Perhaps I don't personally benefit but I don't like people dying.

2) my family, friends and team Australia are much safer when we choose who to accept in our country.

Wrecker did you catch 4Corners tonight? The AFP's investigation into some big drug busts and the Mafia in 2007/8. It mentioned a number of known Calabrian Mafia personalities flying in on Visas unhindered. Wrecker, you and Team Australia better head out to Melbourne airport to check who is coming into the country, they are coming in on tourist visas, student visas and 457 visas by the hundreds every week. Who knows how many evil doers may be amongst them.

  On 06/07/2015 at 12:27, Earl Hood said:

Wrecker did you catch 4Corners tonight? The AFP's investigation into some big drug busts and the Mafia in 2007/8. It mentioned a number of known Calabrian Mafia personalities flying in on Visas unhindered. Wrecker, you and Team Australia better head out to Melbourne airport to check who is coming into the country, they are coming in on tourist visas, student visas and 457 visas by the hundreds every week. Who knows how many evil doers may be amongst them.

Wrecker... well let's face it, Ben Her, is all for children in custody and for exposing them to the possibility of assault in the gulags in Nauru. If Tony says it ok, then BH is all for it.

  On 05/07/2015 at 13:29, Wrecker45 said:

Show me one scientist or expert who predicted a 17 year hiatus in warming, whilst carbon emissions increased. A hiutus which is recognised by the IPCC. If you can't point me to one I will show you who is ignorant.

A hiatus is one thing (kind of like the ups and downs in the stock market in the short term)... what matters is the long term trend; or doesn't that concern you as you won't be around to suffer the effects?

And as you love to cite the IPCC, from November last year:

http://www.smh.com.au/environment/climate-change/ipcc-report-little-time-left-to-act-on-climate-change-20141103-11g2er.html

  On 05/07/2015 at 12:00, Wrecker45 said:

It has a twofold effect for me.

1) I don't like people dying at sea. Perhaps I don't personally benefit but I don't like people dying.

2) my family, friends and team Australia are much safer when we choose who to accept in our country.

You can't seriously be so naive as to think Abbott has prevented any deaths. Relocated some deaths, perhaps.

Sorry, I see you use the term "Team Australia". Anything is possible.

  On 07/07/2015 at 05:12, P-man said:

You can't seriously be so naive as to think Abbott has prevented any deaths. Relocated some deaths, perhaps.

Sorry, I see you use the term "Team Australia". Anything is possible.

"Team Australia" is such a joke. I can't believe fear politics and appeals to the more parochial sections of society still works.

I would prefer to be part of "Team Humanity" myself.

TBH this is the first time I've seen someone use the term outside of a polly. I really hope it doesn't catch on.

As Golda Meir once said ( and I am taking some licence) " Tony never misses an opportunity to miss an opportunity"

I watched Q&A with Zaky Mallah on it. I found Zaky's last comment quite confronting and Tony Jones put paid to it very rapidly.

I reflected after the show that Tony Abbott would have a field day with this in regards to his stripping people of their citizenship. . I thought that Zaky Mallah being on Q&A did far more for Tony's case than any amount of debating. Here in the flesh was a shining example of who the legislation was targeting. Even though I do not agree with philosophy behind stripping people of their citizenship ( making them someone else's problem). To suggest that what this government was doing was pushing Muslims to go and fight for ISIL is patent nonsense. I can see that this guy helped the Abbott argument.

Tony Abbott ( and the rest of the libs) have seemed to miss that point altogether and gone on a ABC witch burning frenzy.

  On 08/07/2015 at 05:58, nutbean said:

As Golda Meir once said ( and I am taking some licence) " Tony never misses an opportunity to miss an opportunity"

I watched Q&A with Zaky Mallah on it. I found Zaky's last comment quite confronting and Tony Jones put paid to it very rapidly.

I reflected after the show that Tony Abbott would have a field day with this in regards to his stripping people of their citizenship. . I thought that Zaky Mallah being on Q&A did far more for Tony's case than any amount of debating. Here in the flesh was a shining example of who the legislation was targeting. Even though I do not agree with philosophy behind stripping people of their citizenship ( making them someone else's problem). To suggest that what this government was doing was pushing Muslims to go and fight for ISIL is patent nonsense. I can see that this guy helped the Abbott argument.

Tony Abbott ( and the rest of the libs) have seemed to miss that point altogether and gone on a ABC witch burning frenzy.

NB I did not find Zaky's comments that confronting myself. Remember that he had been through the system, been accused of terror related activities, found not guilty but did time on a lesser charge of making threats to ASIO officers. He fessed up to this at the start on Q and A. We are not talking about a saint but a troubled youth. But the LNP junior ministers response was classic, "I vaguely remember your case I think you got off on a technicality I would unilaterality deport you tomorrow". Was that not the point of the arguement against the proposed legislation? Zakey clumsily tried to point out that the LNP outlook would just encourage more disillusioned youth to join IS. Yes it was all very messy but gee we are dealing with live TV debating important matters. But our PM can't handle that of course.

Yes let the courts decide these things, not idiots like the junior minister involved. And then why are we denying responsibility for our own citizens? If they are terrorists and they come back here we will deal with them.

I absolute support the decision being made by courts - not by ministers. I also don't support stripping citizenship or denying entry - we are just making this someone else's problem.

I suppose that Zaky's were not confronting but more giving rise to passions.

That he said that the Liberals actions would cause more Muslims to go and fight for ISIL is pretty strong stuff.

Do you think Abbott would not have been better to focus on those words and say that this is why they were pushing the legislation ?

I don't agree with whole take of the LNP on this issue but to me it certainly was a strong example that Abbott could have made.

  On 06/07/2015 at 22:42, hardtack said:

A hiatus is one thing (kind of like the ups and downs in the stock market in the short term)... what matters is the long term trend; or doesn't that concern you as you won't be around to suffer the effects?

And as you love to cite the IPCC, from November last year:

http://www.smh.com.au/environment/climate-change/ipcc-report-little-time-left-to-act-on-climate-change-20141103-11g2er.html

wrecker45 seems to think global warming is all one dimensional, like the old flat hat scenario. we either all fry together, or we all freeze in unison.

truth be told, the world is a cocktail of changing climatic dimensions that over the past 2000 years has been suitable for our lives & existence... but change the criteria that constructed that climate suitability, & all of a sudden calamity is very real danger far outweighing anything ISIS could ever reek.

tornados, drought, wildfires, hurricanes in areas unheard of before, ice storms, unprecedented electrical storms, increased solar radiation. etc.

shuffle the decks & the game changes.

  On 09/07/2015 at 01:03, dee-luded said:

wrecker45 seems to think global warming is all one dimensional, like the old flat hat scenario. we either all fry together, or we all freeze in unison.

truth be told, the world is a cocktail of changing climatic dimensions that over the past 2000 years has been suitable for our lives & existence... but change the criteria that constructed that climate suitability, & all of a sudden calamity is very real danger far outweighing anything ISIS could ever reek.

tornados, drought, wildfires, hurricanes in areas unheard of before, ice storms, unprecedented electrical storms, increased solar radiation. etc.

shuffle the decks & the game changes.

d-l,you left out unprecedented mass migration, large scale famine, epidemic diseases and global warfare with lots of ethnic cleansing

  On 05/07/2015 at 13:29, Wrecker45 said:

Show me one scientist or expert who predicted a 17 year hiatus in warming, whilst carbon emissions increased. A hiutus which is recognised by the IPCC. If you can't point me to one I will show you who is ignorant.

actually - there is now lots out there debunking the hiatus

http://www.thetimes.co.uk/tto/environment/article4462281.ece

http://thebulletin.org/global-warming-%E2%80%9Chiatus%E2%80%9D7639

https://www.climatecouncil.org.au/pause-in-warming-debunked

to name a few.

What gets me is those on the sceptical side of the debate is the notion of requiring "absolutes". Has some of the modelling had flaws in it ? - for sure - but this is such uncharted territory that as new data and "discovery" comes to light the models are refined. The flaws in some modelling does not disqualify the overall science.

But I keep going back to the same argument - even if we consider that what is being offered by climate change scientists is not conclusive - can we afford to gamble and suggest that this is all a myth and do nothing. I stand firmly in camp of effective policies being put in place to combat climate change and it all being a load of nonsense rather than do absolutely nothing and then finding out that the warnings being given regarding the consequences of climate change were accurate. I do concede that I am unsure as to effective policies need to be in place and also concede that there is a lot of greenwashing going on by Governments - say a lot and do pretty much nothing.

  On 09/07/2015 at 01:26, daisycutter said:

d-l,you left out unprecedented mass migration, large scale famine, epidemic diseases and global warfare with lots of ethnic cleansing

thanks dc, your right, i left those out

  On 10/07/2015 at 02:27, dee-luded said:

thanks dc, your right, i left those out

7 billion people and growing at a frightening rate........that's the real problem that no-one wants to acknowledge d-l

human nature of the baser type could be apocalyptic when you add in gcc

but we mustn't talk about it as its offends the sensibilities

DC, DL, NB you can carry on all you like with these peripheral issues like climate change or over population but you ignore the real issues of our time like Bill Shorten being involved with some dodgy invoices to the AWU to the tune of $300k involving a $5 billion contract. These are the real issues threatening our civilisation! That and ISIS the greatest threat to our civilisation in living memory according to Julie Bishop. I mean forget Hitler or the Japanese imperial conquests in WW2 or even the Soviets, these guys are the real deal! Once they take Baghdad then we are just sitting ducks like we were in 1856 when the Russians took the points in the Crimean War.

  On 10/07/2015 at 11:41, Earl Hood said:

DC, DL, NB you can carry on all you like with these peripheral issues like climate change or over population but you ignore the real issues of our time like Bill Shorten being involved with some dodgy invoices to the AWU to the tune of $300k involving a $5 billion contract. These are the real issues threatening our civilisation! That and ISIS the greatest threat to our civilisation in living memory according to Julie Bishop. I mean forget Hitler or the Japanese imperial conquests in WW2 or even the Soviets, these guys are the real deal! Once they take Baghdad then we are just sitting ducks like we were in 1856 when the Russians took the points in the Crimean War.

hey earl, you forgot the fitzroy hipster threat.....and jacqui lambie....

  On 10/07/2015 at 04:48, daisycutter said:

7 billion people and growing at a frightening rate........that's the real problem that no-one wants to acknowledge d-l

human nature of the baser type could be apocalyptic when you add in gcc

but we mustn't talk about it as its offends the sensibilities

I know about that & agree, but your right, people tend to get offended that we put the earth ahead of lives, too many lives.. the balance of nature will do its thing as life supports its own existence.

if we don't look after the life support systems put on Earth, then those systems will take the TOLL themselves... for life itself struggles to be sustainable.

  On 10/07/2015 at 11:41, Earl Hood said:

DC, DL, NB you can carry on all you like with these peripheral issues like climate change or over population but you ignore the real issues of our time like Bill Shorten being involved with some dodgy invoices to the AWU to the tune of $300k involving a $5 billion contract. These are the real issues threatening our civilisation! That and ISIS the greatest threat to our civilisation in living memory according to Julie Bishop. I mean forget Hitler or the Japanese imperial conquests in WW2 or even the Soviets, these guys are the real deal! Once they take Baghdad then we are just sitting ducks like we were in 1856 when the Russians took the points in the Crimean War.

just life taking its toll EH. such is life. & what will be will be.

like the inevitability the Libs will sell out the farm; if they can make a buck on it.