1 minute ago, Choke said:

Can't believe I'm about to say this but - did you seriously expect him to follow through on that?

 

Just as an aside, it's pretty sad that we can't expect politicians (of any persuasion) to actually do what they say they will. WTF is going on?

yep, like shorten unequivocally saying he would accept the umpire's decision of the labor created and stacked fair work commission. now when the decision has been handed down he says he will do everything in his power to get it changed. wtf

7 minutes ago, daisycutter said:

yep, like shorten unequivocally saying he would accept the umpire's decision of the labor created and stacked fair work commission. now when the decision has been handed down he says he will do everything in his power to get it changed. wtf

lol yep. Shorten is right up there with the best of them on backflips.

Also completely compromised because of union ties.

"I'm sick of politics" - Choke.(23/2)

Actually - can I rephrase for you ?

"I'm sick of politicians"

Couldn't agree more....

 

 

one thing that really gives me the s@@@@s is when they have a press conference with a couple of colleagues just behind them looking solemn and nodding their heads at every point made. this is just so f'n farcical and really insulting to the audience's intelligence. yet they just keep doing it. f'n morons the lot of them and totally oblivious about how the public's hatred is increasing, yet seemingly powerless to change their ways, like the f'n dinosaurs they are

see choke i can rant too 

4 minutes ago, daisycutter said:

one thing that really gives me the s@@@@s is when they have a press conference with a couple of colleagues just behind them looking solemn and nodding their heads at every point made. this is just so f'n farcical and really insulting to the audience's intelligence. yet they just keep doing it. f'n morons the lot of them and totally oblivious about how the public's hatred is increasing, yet seemingly powerless to change their ways, like the f'n dinosaurs they are

see choke i can rant too 

lol.

The ability to rant crosses all political borders.

21 hours ago, Choke said:

lol.

The ability to rant crosses all political borders.

I've had enough. I'm moving. Just got my passport...

 

Is it sniping by Abbott to encourage centre right policies as an elected member of a centre right party?

And he also has the guts to put his name to it and say it openly.

This whole blaming Abbott for Turnbull's poor polling is farcicle. Turnbull ran the worst election campaign of the moder era. Is that Abbott's fault too? Turnbull was well behind in the polls before Abbott started saying the obvious about RETs.

Perhaps I am letting my bias influence my thinking but I don't think Abbott has done much wrong.

19 minutes ago, Wrecker45 said:

Is it sniping by Abbott  - yep

Perhaps I am letting my bias influence my thinking  - yep

 

1 hour ago, nutbean said:

I've had enough. I'm moving. Just got my passport...

 

do they have internet?

48 minutes ago, daisycutter said:

 

So it is sniping by Abbott to argue for Liberal Party values? I don't think it is.

Rudd leaked and did all he could to wreck the Gillard Government. Abbott is just spruiking what most Liberal voters want and putting his name to it. 

6 minutes ago, Wrecker45 said:

So it is sniping by Abbott to argue for Liberal Party values? I don't think it is.

Rudd leaked and did all he could to wreck the Gillard Government. Abbott is just spruiking what most Liberal voters want and putting his name to it. 

wrecker, if you want to believe it is as simple as that, go right ahead

abbott knows what he is doing. it's called destabilisation. everybody can see that plain as daylight except you

if abbott was plain dumb and naive you might possibly have a point

56 minutes ago, daisycutter said:

wrecker, if you want to believe it is as simple as that, go right ahead

abbott knows what he is doing. it's called destabilisation. everybody can see that plain as daylight except you

if abbott was plain dumb and naive you might possibly have a point

Of course it's not that simple.

Abbott knows what he is doing. He is much smarter than most give him credit for. He is an awkward communicator but a thoughtful and calculating person.

Abbott is destabilising the (lost) Government by advocating centre right policy for the centre right party. 

 

1 hour ago, Wrecker45 said:

Of course it's not that simple.

Abbott knows what he is doing. He is much smarter than most give him credit for. He is an awkward communicator but a thoughtful and calculating person.

Abbott is destabilising the (lost) Government by advocating centre right policy for the centre right party. 

 

As long as you use the word "destabilise" I'm happy enough. Every ex leader on all sides of politics has "destabilisation" on their job spec...

3 hours ago, dieter said:

do they have internet?

actually they wouldn't issue me a visa. When I applied Prince Leonard told me they had a "turn back the goats" policy...alas...

6 minutes ago, nutbean said:

As long as you use the word "destabilise" I'm happy enough. Every ex leader on all sides of politics has "destabilisation" on their job spec...

Is destabilising the current leader by endorsing core values of the party  he once lead sniping though?

I don't think so.

Every prospective leader tries to destabilise their party. It is the way politics works. Dog eat dog.

Turnbull destabilised Abbott by apealling to the abc and fairfax crowd. They are not his parties traditional supporter base. That is why he is in free fall now. They wont vote for him.

 

16 minutes ago, Wrecker45 said:

 

Every prospective leader tries to destabilise their party. It is the way politics works. 

 

 

You could have stopped there. And added ex-leader. 

Edited February 28, 20178 yr by nutbean

surely wrecker,  hurting(destabilising/sniping) your party in public is an act of blatant disloyalty which abbott promised not to do before the elections

if he want's to change party platforms/directions he can do it within the internal party frameworks

he has only done himself and his party a dis-service in the eyes of the public where he is just seen as a vindictive trouble maker and someone who can't keep his word

and yes again, your bias is blinding your judgement

2 hours ago, nutbean said:

actually they wouldn't issue me a visa. When I applied Prince Leonard told me they had a "turn back the goats" policy...alas...

Actually, my favourite wine is called Goats Du Rhone. I can't afford the more expensive Shateneuf Du Pape, sounds obscene anyway....

7 hours ago, daisycutter said:

surely wrecker,  hurting(destabilising/sniping) your party in public is an act of blatant disloyalty which abbott promised not to do before the elections

if he want's to change party platforms/directions he can do it within the internal party frameworks

he has only done himself and his party a dis-service in the eyes of the public where he is just seen as a vindictive trouble maker and someone who can't keep his word

and yes again, your bias is blinding your judgement

Firstly, Abbott is not changing the party direction (except from sinking ship) he is only advocating what is obvious.

Secondly, Turnbull had every opportunity  to place one of the greatest politicians in Liberal party history on the front bench. He didn't and Abbott is therefore entitled to say what he wants from the back bench

7 hours ago, Wrecker45 said:

Firstly, Abbott is not changing the party direction (except from sinking ship) he is only advocating what is obvious.

Secondly, Turnbull had every opportunity  to place one of the greatest politicians in Liberal party history on the front bench. He didn't and Abbott is therefore entitled to say what he wants from the back bench

He is advocating what you think is obvious but many of his party don't  - that is why he is no longer leader. 

Secondly - is Abbott  an example of party unity, spitting the dummy if you don't get what you want ? Abbott is entitled to say what he wants (as is any party member) but you have a choice of saying it behind closed doors or destabilising and sniping in public from the backbench.

You can spin it any way you like  - bottom line is he doing exactly what he said he wouldn't do.

9 hours ago, Wrecker45 said:

Firstly, Abbott is not changing the party direction (except from sinking ship) he is only advocating what is obvious.

Secondly, Turnbull had every opportunity  to place one of the greatest politicians in Liberal party history on the front bench. He didn't and Abbott is therefore entitled to say what he wants from the back bench

we get it, wrecker. you're a big abbott fan and you hate turnbull. that's fine, that's your choice

but it is more important what the voting public think than what you think and the facts are that abbott's sniping is not doing him (or his party) any favours with the general public (apart from preaching to his choir)

after all the labor/liberal pm coups of recent years, if you can't see that, then you are blind

that's not say that the liberals aren't in a lot of bother, but going public like this only further disintegrates the party 

On 27 February 2017 at 11:23 AM, daisycutter said:

yep, like shorten unequivocally saying he would accept the umpire's decision of the labor created and stacked fair work commission. now when the decision has been handed down he says he will do everything in his power to get it changed. wtf

Thank god he's changed his opinion. Doing way with Sunday penalty rates is one of the worst decisions I've seen in recent years. Wander into your local supermarket, look at those poor (mostly) women standing drearily behind the cash register, or the young people trying to make a buck in your local cafe, wandering how they're ever going to be able to buy a house like their parents did.  

 

It's also a thin edge of the wedge thing - today, retail and hospitality, tomorrow, nurses, ambos, emergency services (i suppose coppers will be the last to go, since they're mostly Liberal voters) Anybody complains, just bring in more migrants, pay em cash in hand.

 

Society is already so unequal - the bosses hold all the cards - this decision is one more nail in the coffin.

 

The Fair Work Commission has a role to play, but surely the ultimate arbiter has to be Parliament?  Mr Harbourside could overturn it in an instant if he wanted to, as he should.

I actually reckon the Fair Work Commission made a good decision.

200% was too much for Sunday rates. It's now 150% I think. The 150% loading IMHO is accurate compensation for working hours on a weekend away from family instead of normal rates while the kids are at school.

I reckon that's fair.

Similarly the change in the fast food industry from the Sunday rate of 150% to the Saturday rate of 125% is fair. What's the practical difference between a Saturday and a Sunday? Why on Earth should someone working on a Sunday get more than on a Saturday? They are both weekend days.

These are the changes according to the Australian Financial Review:

 

The biggest change the full time and part time retail workers, with a reduction of $9.72 per hour. So in an 8 hour day that person makes $233.28 instead of $311.04. $77 difference. $233 is still a mighty high amount for unskilled labour.

33 minutes ago, Jara said:

Thank god he's changed his opinion. Doing way with Sunday penalty rates is one of the worst decisions I've seen in recent years. Wander into your local supermarket, look at those poor (mostly) women standing drearily behind the cash register, or the young people trying to make a buck in your local cafe, wandering how they're ever going to be able to buy a house like their parents did.  

 

It's also a thin edge of the wedge thing - today, retail and hospitality, tomorrow, nurses, ambos, emergency services (i suppose coppers will be the last to go, since they're mostly Liberal voters) Anybody complains, just bring in more migrants, pay em cash in hand.

 

Society is already so unequal - the bosses hold all the cards - this decision is one more nail in the coffin.

 

The Fair Work Commission has a role to play, but surely the ultimate arbiter has to be Parliament?  Mr Harbourside could overturn it in an instant if he wanted to, as he should.

actually jara the weekend supermarket employees are not affected as they are under an eba

i'd be more in favour of raising the minimum hourly pay rate to provide a more liveable wage for low income workers rather than grossly distorted penalty rates. if i have a criticism of the finding it is that it is just a fragment of wage reform and a more comprehensive overhaul is required, but good luck with that

I can understand penalty rates in many circumstances but I dislike penalty rates on Sundays. They are great for those that get them. Not so great for the rest of the economy.

I have a close friend running a small business that is struggling to make ends meet. He employs people but can't afford to pay himself. He has tried to get weekend work outside of his business and been told on numerous occasions that weekends were to "reward" the regular workers. He would gladly work for the standard wage but penalty rates are preventing him getting a gig because the Mon- Fri workers are getting them.