Isn't it nice to have WYL's mother posting as well

Could we please refrain from personal comments and replace them with analytical views, or personal opinion, at least in some way related to MFC!

Please do not attempt to summarise my comments and twist them to suit your own view.

My point is very simply that MN is trying to impose a playing style that is not logical, as shown by the styles adopted by many clubs, and hence cannot logically be accepted by MFC players, who do have the capacity to think and who do communicate with players from other clubs.

'Happy with our predominance against teams with similar attributes and experience to us' - would that be the two or three other bottom teams? What are you saying?

Not sure if you have been following this thread Hardnut - I've been saying we are bottom 4 - maybe thats a factor why Neelds vision hasn't been realised

As for the rest - your entitled to your opinion and I agree with it in some respects - but just blaming Neeld is nieve, which is what I am trying to get across

You simply blame Neeld for all our woes

Not sure if you have been following this thread Hardnut - I've been saying we are bottom 4 - maybe thats a factor why Neelds vision hasn't been realised

As for the rest - your entitled to your opinion and I agree with it in some respects - but just blaming Neeld is nieve, which is what I am trying to get across

You simply blame Neeld for all our woes

Not sure if you have been following this thread Hardnut - I've been saying we are bottom 4 - maybe thats a factor why Neelds vision hasn't been realised

As for the rest - your entitled to your opinion and I agree with it in some respects - but just blaming Neeld is nieve, which is what I am trying to get across

You simply blame Neeld for all our woes

I accept that Neeld is not to blame for all of MFC's woes, however he must certainly be held to account for our onfield performance - underneath I suspect we may share some common views.

You're like a broken record WYL, your spelling is mediocre, I'm actually getting more optimistic the further we get into the season

It is only you and a few others on this Board that are wallowing, like I said wish I had a graphic of a person sitting at a keyboard with a rain cloud above their head, then you and your fellow wallowers could just post that and not the repetitive nonsense you keep posting......put yourself up for President like I said before, start a petition or shut up about Don McLardy, its boring

I assume you meant Watts about freezing, you judging him in comparison to your playing days?

Sorry, these are rubbish comments. Just because you take issue with the President, doesn't mean you then have to stand for the position yourself. Similarly, you don't have to play football to pass comment on an AFL footballer. My god. We wouldn't have a media industry. WYL has a right, like we all do, to question the club when the results continue to be dire. We are the shareholders. We are Melbourne. The members. The supporters. That doesn't mean you can't question.

I would even go as far as to say this is very much the case. My point however goes to the notion of how is it so many players are left flatfooted mouth agape with out nary ( it seems ) a clue as to what to do next .

Training is surely about scenarios and accomodating differing outcomes to ones that might be those drilled.

If Neeld is training his men in the singular view that you would encounter only one level of adversary then that would be foolhardy bordering on delusional. I cant imagine this is the case..i.e a variety of 'levels' would be considered and practiced.

In this case players OUGHT to know what they are supposed to be doing when things are either going in their favour or diametrically opposite.

Neeld was aghast ( let alone surprised ) that training outcomes were emulated on game days.

We all know real v training can be very different so why the surpise Mark ?

If they are all at sea then either the training isnt nearly as good as the FD thought or the comprehension just isnt there.

The whole point of training is to eradicate eh acttual neccessity to 'think' too hard come crunch time. The idea is to just react ( do ) not think.

What worrie me about all this is I dont think the FD have nearly as good a handle on where things are and ought to be as they profess.

And this all comes back in spades to the ideologies and abilites of firstly the coach ...and then all his minions.

Despite the mutterings of the club the scoreboard suggests things are not clued up as suggested.

So let me get this straight from what you've said - Mark Neeld, Neal Craig and Dave Mission have no idea what they're doing because in a press conference he said he was surprised results were so poor, it's not due to disappointment at all?

You think the instructions aren't clear to the players because of your analysis of press conferences after the game,yet at no stage do you take in to account that the players were outplayed, on top of not hearing the instructions from the coaches first hand yourself. You've taken all of the accountibility out of the players hands and transferred it all to Neeld, and give you give no credit to the oppisitions what so ever. Sounds reasonable doesn't it?

On top of that as I said first up you imply Neeld, Craig and Mission have no idea what they are doing..... or do you just expect miracles in 18 months?

I said this earlier in this thread - compare our starting 6 mids to Carlton and come back to me if you think we are competing on even terms..... Now you can point the finger at Neeld. But also I think and hope midfields can be developed quickly - but over time

C'mon mate - is it so far out there that the team is getting beaten so easily because the players can't execute. The collusion and experience required at AFL level week in week out isn't there, it takes years to develop, and no one can deny we are not rebuilding. A lot of the anger on here is because we are.

At no stage have I ever said Mark Neeld is not responsible for this - but I am not going to lay all the blame on him after he has been 27 games in, this time next year if we are this level - (which we probably will be with sacking coaches and making chages) I will be very disappointed

I accept that Neeld is not to blame for all of MFC's woes, however he must certainly be held to account for our onfield performance - underneath I suspect we may share some common views.

Agree mate, we may see them through different eyes but I think we may be on the same page...... Just would be nice to see this club win some games

But then again this place would be boring haha

Agree mate, we may see them through different eyes but I think we may be on the same page...... Just would be nice to see this club win some games

But then again this place would be boring haha

Certainly would be boring mate!

My real concern is that MN's style of game is wrong and totally unnatural compared with the successful Geelong style. I believe this is why MFC players seem confused on the field (and I have never seen this style to be successful, even at the Pies when they won a rather fortunate flag - ironic, as I am now watching the same two teams that played in that GF!).

I would be very happy if this could be rectified, but MN seems determined to impose his will - hence my concern about MN and why I believe he must go now.

Agree mate, we may see them through different eyes but I think we may be on the same page...... Just would be nice to see this club win some games

But then again this place would be boring haha

It isn't boring on here when we're winning, the over the top hyperbole just goes in the other direction.

Actually, it's been so long since we haven't been carp that I've forgotten what it's like here when we're winning.

I get the feeling that Mark Neeld may be the Peter principle personified (how's that for alliteration?!) I feel that he is starting to mature a little as a coach but it may be coming a little too late. However, I don't think this particular job was ever going to be his station in life and he has risen to his level of incompetence as opposed to his level of competence. I don't especially mean that to be senior coach. This job required a coach with a few years experience and a bit more of a flexible approach. Neeldy might have made a better coach at another club but this was the wrong one. He may have allowed himself to be used too much as a political pawn during the dying days of the CS era but I can't confirm that. Just merely a hunch.

UH

you seem to be missing much here then.

In simple terms here it is

MN and co rave about the progress and quality of training. Team has stepped up.( by their accord )

team seems able ( according to the club ) to carry out the plan at training and practice...their summation...not mine

team gets flogged.... Neeld...well fmd I didnt see that coming...dont understand how that happened...unable to corrolate training to gamedays !!

Now this isnt my interpretation...this is what happened...its what he uttered. So do I not take him at his own stock ??

Do I think we are up with the big boys ? No way...Am I surprised we are as pathetic as we are ? You bet. We should be better than last year....we're worse , without much to give comfort.

I can only surmise that the clubs benchmarking is way off mark. I also think , at least now suspect Neeld is out of his depth. Game day changes are way WAY too slow.

What I think many are unduly doing is suggesting this game is very complicated. It isnt, not that complicated.

Much is being made of the supposed game plan ( is there one ) as opposed to application of the basic fundamentals of the game. i.e Tackling, more tackling, second efforts ( ever more first might help ) , shepherding , hounding of opponents etc.. This seems lacking in enormous amounts.

Game plan aside the fundamentals are the responsibility of coaching and training.

Why are we inept. Why are we incapable of understandig trajectories of play and massing at these points. Why do Melbourne players handpass to stationary temates already tagged ? Why do players kick to opposing players ?

Why is the coach adamant ( seemingly ) about coercing the current players to run to a plan which they are obviously incapable of instead of developing a plan that they can and growing it ??

Im really starting to wonder whether he has the slightest clue at this level.

There is only ONE litmus.... the scoreboard....its daming. Shows not only cant we win a p!ssup it indicates we are running out of legs prematurely, all this despite our supposed athletic ability being better than past years according to Neeld and Co.

Neeld it would seem is either an unpolished genius, and totally misunderstood or a modern day sporting Abagnale.

Nothing indicates any line of imnprovement.

The degree of thrashing at the hands of Malthouse might show where we are...or more poignantly where Neeld is.

Ive yet to see a team thats switched on this year... you can be underdogs, underlings, vanquished but you can still be mentally at the contest.. We hardly show were at the same game !!

UH

you seem to be missing much here then.

In simple terms here it is

MN and co rave about the progress and quality of training. Team has stepped up.( by their accord )

team seems able ( according to the club ) to carry out the plan at training and practice...their summation...not mine

team gets flogged.... Neeld...well fmd I didnt see that coming...dont understand how that happened...unable to corrolate training to gamedays !!

Now this isnt my interpretation...this is what happened...its what he uttered. So do I not take him at his own stock ??

Do I think we are up with the big boys ? No way...Am I surprised we are as pathetic as we are ? You bet. We should be better than last year....we're worse , without much to give comfort.

I can only surmise that the clubs benchmarking is way off mark. I also think , at least now suspect Neeld is out of his depth. Game day changes are way WAY too slow.

What I think many are unduly doing is suggesting this game is very complicated. It isnt, not that complicated.

Much is being made of the supposed game plan ( is there one ) as opposed to application of the basic fundamentals of the game. i.e Tackling, more tackling, second efforts ( ever more first might help ) , shepherding , hounding of opponents etc.. This seems lacking in enormous amounts.

Game plan aside the fundamentals are the responsibility of coaching and training.

Why are we inept. Why are we incapable of understandig trajectories of play and massing at these points. Why do Melbourne players handpass to stationary temates already tagged ? Why do players kick to opposing players ?

Why is the coach adamant ( seemingly ) about coercing the current players to run to a plan which they are obviously incapable of instead of developing a plan that they can and growing it ??

Im really starting to wonder whether he has the slightest clue at this level.

There is only ONE litmus.... the scoreboard....its daming. Shows not only cant we win a p!ssup it indicates we are running out of legs prematurely, all this despite our supposed athletic ability being better than past years according to Neeld and Co.

Neeld it would seem is either an unpolished genius, and totally misunderstood or a modern day sporting Abagnale.

Nothing indicates any line of imnprovement.

The degree of thrashing at the hands of Malthouse might show where we are...or more poignantly where Neeld is.

Ive yet to see a team thats switched on this year... you can be underdogs, underlings, vanquished but you can still be mentally at the contest.. We hardly show were at the same game !!

Just wanted to be concise mate. I could go on and on but the main point was about Neeld being the human face of the Peter principle.

What I think many are unduly doing is suggesting this game is very complicated. It isnt, not that complicated.

Please enlighten us on what is required from the final siren to game day the following week. It is a professional sport not just the 4 quarters we see each week.

Do you really think Neeld sits on his hands all day long and plays angry birds?

Please enlighten us on what is required from the final siren to game day the following week. It is a professional sport not just the 4 quarters we see each week.

Do you really think Neeld sits on his hands all day long and plays angry birds?

He reads Demonland and gets totally confused!

Please enlighten us on what is required from the final siren to game day the following week. It is a professional sport not just the 4 quarters we see each week.

Do you really think Neeld sits on his hands all day long and plays angry birds?

care to make sense?

want to frame a question in the context of the direction you point ?

what you might be undervaluing is the ONLY time that matters...is those 4 qtrs.

now care to ask something relevant

care to make sense?

want to frame a question in the context of the direction you point ?

what you might be undervaluing is the ONLY time that matters...is those 4 qtrs.

now care to ask something relevant

So as you have had vast experience as a AFL coach, what would you do this Sunday against Carlton? Shouldnt be that complicated.

Please enlighten us on what is required from the final siren to game day the following week. It is a professional sport not just the 4 quarters we see each week.

Do you really think Neeld sits on his hands all day long and plays angry birds?

sitting on your hands while playing angry birds would be a amazing talent.....

care to make sense?

want to frame a question in the context of the direction you point ?

what you might be undervaluing is the ONLY time that matters...is those 4 qtrs.

now care to ask something relevant

Calm down BB - most coaches will tell you that the game is won or lost in the days before the actual game - I think that's what Benson is asking about (?).

care to make sense?

want to frame a question in the context of the direction you point ?

what you might be undervaluing is the ONLY time that matters...is those 4 qtrs.

now care to ask something relevant

Please enlighten us on what is required from the final siren to game day the following week. ...

Or... Seeing as though AFL is NOT that complicated, what would you do as a head coach during the 6-7 days before the next round?

So as you have had vast experience as a AFL coach, what would you do this Sunday against Carlton? Shouldnt be that complicated.

you are a buffoon. obviously...

Lets attempt to shy away from what was asked of you.

Obviously you didnt read much of what was written before otherwise youd know the answer.

How about the team concentrate on what it can do, on what it can affect rather than some pie in the sky ambitions to a game style it obviously falls flat at attempting.

If you dont have the ball you get the ball. We lose games through a simple happening. The oppoisition has the pill a lot more than we do. And when they do have it they tend to retain it and do more scoring.

I really have no idea what Neeld does all day....I do think developing a winning style isnt part of it though.

I would be only too happy to see this team turn around. To eat words and see Neeld triumphant .

You see I really dont care less who plays for us or who coaches us. I only want a competitve and ideally premiership winning team in red and blue....all else is superfluous really.

What I do care about is the constant dilution of anything resembling a football team in our colours.

What do I want Neeld to do.??

maybe have a total rethink, what hes accomplished to date is SFA !! Anyone who fails to learn is doomed to repeat.

Or... Seeing as though AFL is NOT that complicated, what would you do as a head coach during the 6-7 days before the next round?

I'm happy to give you a response Benson, albeit in very simple terms.

First, review last week's game in detail.

Second, look at next week's opponents in detail.

(In between, train - if it was me, I would emphasise skills.)

Third, pick team and advise members of details specific to the upcoming game.

After watching the footy tonight, I think if there was a Justin Koschinski hate thread on this board, we'd have somewhere to channel our anger.

you are a buffoon. obviously...

Lets attempt to shy away from what was asked of you.

Obviously you didnt read much of what was written before otherwise youd know the answer.

How about the team concentrate on what it can do, on what it can affect rather than some pie in the sky ambitions to a game style it obviously falls flat at attempting.

If you dont have the ball you get the ball. We lose games through a simple happening. The oppoisition has the pill a lot more than we do. And when they do have it they tend to retain it and do more scoring.

I really have no idea what Neeld does all day....I do think developing a winning style isnt part of it though.

I would be only too happy to see this team turn around. To eat words and see Neeld triumphant .

You see I really dont care less who plays for us or who coaches us. I only want a competitve and ideally premiership winning team in red and blue....all else is superfluous really.

What I do care about is the constant dilution of anything resembling a football team in our colours.

What do I want Neeld to do.??

maybe have a total rethink, what hes accomplished to date is SFA !! Anyone who fails to learn is doomed to repeat.

lol... I was watching The Avengers with my son today, and his favourite character in the movie was the Hulk, and it is now his favourite superhero. It may change to Belzebub59, when I tell him about Hulk 2.0.

I'm happy to give you a response Benson, albeit in very simple terms.

First, review last week's game in detail.

Second, look at next week's opponents in detail.

(In between, train - if it was me, I would emphasise skills.)

Third, pick team and advise members of details specific to the upcoming game.

Not being a smart ass to your response, but there is so much more that occurs during that 6-7 days. The point I wanted to make was that AFL is a complicated sport, as are all professional sports. For a posters to say that it is not "complicated" is just ridiculous.

After watching the footy tonight, I think if there was a Justin Koschinski hate thread on this board, we'd have somewhere to channel our anger.

If you were a Collingwood supporter.

Please enlighten us on what is required from the final siren to game day the following week. It is a professional sport not just the 4 quarters we see each week.

Do you really think Neeld sits on his hands all day long and plays angry birds?

Benson, with the pathetic on field performances so far this year, that might not be such a bad idea. I think if the player's ran their own training session, pre game day match ups and changes on game day, they would do better than the pitiful performances in most matches we've seen so far. Some against sub par opposition. We're unwatchable, not even AFL standard. A club that's been in existence and the founding member of the game.....we kicked 1 goal 3 and 1 goal 1 in the 2nd halves first 2 matches. We've won 2 quarters of football out of 20. And that was against an under manned start up team in its 2nd year.

Neeld's responsible for appointing 2 junior players as Captain against every logical and common sense train of thought, and pretty much the judgement of every football commentator, many of whom are past greats of the game. His first MASSIVE blunder.

Winning games of football starts at the leadership table, then the midfield, drilled skills skills skills, lots of run, talent, guts and hard work combined. We stuffed the leadership issue to start with, insulted pretty much every senior player in the club at the time and from which i believe we've never recovered.

The leadership had to come from either Mitch or Jones boy who would have been able to shoulder it and lead by example. To appoint 2 young blokes just learning the game, undersized with little experience can't be expected to carry a club through hard times and lift it out of obscurity. It's too big an ask. Just let them focus on their development, skills and positional roles.

The next mistake, this year, was to leave a severely under manned mid field stock, even more under stocked, by leaving Magner and Couch on the rookie list. Not our saviors by any means but we need them in there. It's a numbers/contest game in there. The more personnel you have through the mid who are capable and able to hold their own, the longer you'll stay in a match and possibly give yourself a chance of winning it. For Neeld and Co. to leave our mid field so atrociously under manned is for me....enough said about their know how and capabilities.

Another example if you needed one.....and this is only one, but IMO it stands out like dog's balls.......

Of all our mid field options for Sunday's game against the Lions....who would you match up on Beamer (probably their top mid on the day albeit 3rd string to Black and Rich if they were fit) to start the match? One of our best, most experienced in Jones/Sylvia? Maybe even Mckenzie in a shut down role as he doesn't offer much else offensively? No.....let's roll with....Trengove to start the match!! Beamer has 5 kilos, 7 years and 87 games on Trengove. Trengove's done nothing like the pre season work that Beamer's done given his injury issues. But no, that's who we're rolling with! And guess what, Beamer gets the first "easy" clearance from the centre, pops it over the top to Brown....and PFFFT.....they're off to the perfect start in the first 30 seconds. Well FM....who could have guessed that was coming!!

I was all for Neeld at the beginning and wanted him to do well. But having witnessed every match at the G this season, and after reviewing the game (again) against a junior, less experienced Lions team with 6 teenagers in it on Sunday, i am convinced that Neeld will have to have a massive change in direction with regard to how and what he's drilling into this team...and his match day/strategies/game style etc in order to turn this around.

At the same time i don't think sacking him is appropriate before season's end. Not unless we have a massive coup with a big name coach beforehand but i don't believe in fairy tails. Although i would hope the board/president are, at the very least, starting to consider our situation seriously as to what our options are towards the end of this year.