Jimmi...in really simplistic terms it all come down TO the players. The coach doesnt play the game, the FD arent out there, the Board isnt out there, the sponsors arent nor are we. Its just the players on the day.

Its so reminiscent of you can bring a horse to water , but cant make it drink. it has to want to.

Agree bezle,

It doesn't really matter what the 'gameplan' is/was, whether we should've tanked, who we should've drafted, who we shouldn't have offloaded, what our CEO & admin have been up to, how much the fans win - these are all side issues, we'll never be any good until 21 + 1 begin to commit to changing the onfield culture.

sorry Billy...who would they be ?

Hille < Jamar

Fletcher > Rivers

Watson > Green

McVeigh < Moloney

It's a bloody tough one, because obviously we don't know what happens (ie what is said) on the field or behind closed doors. I wouldn't call Hille a better leader than Jamar, Fletcher appears to be a far greater leader than Rivers, Watson easily has Green covered (especially when comparing them to last year when both were fairly fresh captains), and while McVeigh appears to make a lot of noise, I think Moloney would offer more as a leader. But, I could be totally wrong.

One thing I strongly believe is that on paper, I don't think they are that much ahead of us, I just don't understand why they perform so much better. I especially don't think it's that their leadership is far superior.

31 win out of 121 game. But how good do the wins feel when you are that bad.

Hille < Jamar

Fletcher > Rivers

Watson > Green

McVeigh < Moloney

It's a bloody tough one, because obviously we don't know what happens (ie what is said) on the field or behind closed doors. I wouldn't call Hille a better leader than Jamar, Fletcher appears to be a far greater leader than Rivers, Watson easily has Green covered (especially when comparing them to last year when both were fairly fresh captains), and while McVeigh appears to make a lot of noise, I think Moloney would offer more as a leader. But, I could be totally wrong.

One thing I strongly believe is that on paper, I don't think they are that much ahead of us, I just don't understand why they perform so much better. I especially don't think it's that their leadership is far superior.

Forgetting that Fletcher is 145 years old I would trade all four of our players for just Watson and Fletcher and still think we have got ourselves a bargain.

Watsons is in the top 5 extractors in the league and leads by example of getting his hands dirty and the ball out of the clearances. Fletcher is just the general down back and continually marshalls the troops. On paper, off paper and on the field these two alone offer so much more than any of our leaders.

Forgetting that Fletcher is 145 years old I would trade all four of our players for just Watson and Fletcher and still think we have got ourselves a bargain.

Watsons is in the top 5 extractors in the league and leads by example of getting his hands dirty and the ball out of the clearances. Fletcher is just the general down back and continually marshalls the troops. On paper, off paper and on the field these two alone offer so much more than any of our leaders.

Your opinion is fine. The only player out of those listed from Essendon that I would want is Watson.

with all due respect Who I think youve failed to grasp the simplicity of what OLD is getting at. . The "ideals" you speak of in your mini manifesto have been trotted out year in year out . To what avail. NADA...grand achievements...absolutely NOTHING

What you seem to be suggesting is text book Ra-Ra... go get em , stiif upper lip , come on chaps we can do it !!! I mean really. ..and further more we as supporters are supposed to clapand cheer and back emup relentlessly and unquestioningly so.

Well..I know 2 people sick to death of that hey OLD !!

You subscribe to the very TOXIC views we need to remove from our culture - sorry history does not back up your argument. Melbourne "supporters" have been leaving us for years because they wont focus on the positives. Your negativity is TOXIC.

Change or die.

PS I fully understand the "simplicity" of what he is saying & I said that on more than one occasion. He constantly focuses on the symptoms and just fails to seek the cause. Sorry but AFL Footy 2012 is not "simplistic".

But if it makes him feel any better to blame others - that says more about him & who agree with him than anything else. Mate its not about "our poor frustrated supporters" Its all about our WHOLE club. Our destiny is in our own hands until you & he recognise that - bleat on.

Edited April 12, 201213 yr by Dr Who

Your opinion is fine. The only player out of those listed from Essendon that I would want is Watson.

Sometimes it only takes one leader at a club to make a difference. Talk to Carlton people about Judd - we know he is a superstar player but the Carlton people will tell you it is more than just his footy skills - they marvel at his leadership qualities on and off the field.

While I agree that it ultimately comes down to the players I also know that the coaches role is the most significant.

Placing players in the right spot, against the right opponent, using their identified skill set, giving them the confidence to follow the game plans.

It does seem a matter of confidence at the moment and there may be some reasons for that beyond the footy field, but Crikey its about time the coaches started to acknowledge whats going on and doing something about it. Some of that doing something is public announcement or displays of the confidence. I havent seen any positive support from coaches for Watts, Jurrah, Sylvia, Morton, Howe etc stating how they are developing some skill or improving. I hope this is happening inside the club but lets see some body language and confidence from the top.

I am a passionate supporter and have been for 50 years and have seen many low periods,there has always been something to take away, now I am in the country and rarely see the games I was disturbed when friends who still go every week stated that they saw nothing to take away.

I do hope the coach/es can instil some improvement and acknowledge and celebrate that.

Sure defeat must hurt and failure must be recognised but please publicly acknowlegde success. I cannot wait for another regime change, another period of tanking, another period of waiting for the messiah. I dont mind getting beaten if I can see that we have used our best to the maximum.

It was disappointing that the captain said the players did not give their best effort after the first match, I guess they may have tackled poorly in the second match in an effort to put a greater effort in but please, please say that.

We as supporters have always said that the defeats we endured were character building. We are built thats why we are still here. Id like to see the character of the coaches and the players and yes more pride displayed.

I would like the players to be exhausted as they drag themselves off the field in defeat recognising that they have given every effort I would like the supporters to celebrate that effort as we always did even in defeat. Id prefer to see them too exhausted to celebrate a victory but able to accept the celebration of the supporters for thats all we can do. I wouldnt mind if a player was so exhausted he couldnt play the next week if he was replaced with someone who also showed the same effort.

I dont know where Im going with this but I do feel better now

GO DEES

You subscribe to the very TOXIC views we need to remove from our culture - sorry history does not back up your argument. Melbourne "supporters" have been leaving us for years because they wont focus on the positives. Your negativity is TOXIC.

Change or die.

PS I fully understand the "simplicity" of what he is saying & I said that on more than one occasion. He constantly focuses on the symptoms and just fails to seek the cause. Sorry but AFL Footy 2012 is not "simplistic".

But if it makes him feel any better to blame others - that says more about him & who agree with him than anything else. Mate its not about "our poor frustrated supporters" Its all about our WHOLE club. Our destiny is in our own hands until you & he recognise that - bleat on.

Who drives that negativity mate? This is a game, a sport where winner takes all and the loser be damned. We have been damned for 48 years so you can't blame the supporters for being negative. How about the club/team gives us something to be positive about instead of demanding positivity from the supporters who buy memberships and turn up year in, year out brimming with positivity only to be slapped back down to earth again almost instantly due to the pathetic efforts of the team wearing the blue & red out on the field. For the amount of crap the supporters have had to put up with (most of them their entire lives) I think they are doing extremely well to maintain any level of positivity whatsoever.

What an indictment 31 wins from 121 starts....

On seeing those numbers my general sense of a disappointment suddenly has a point of focus.......FMD........and this while we are "rebuilding"

Sometimes it only takes one leader at a club to make a difference. Talk to Carlton people about Judd - we know he is a superstar player but the Carlton people will tell you it is more than just his footy skills - they marvel at his leadership qualities on and off the field.

Says a bucketload about our club doesn't it, that even though he was a huge demon supporter he did not wish to help change the soft culture we all know.

Ju$$ would have made a huge difference, and he knows it..but still he decided no. It was more than just cash.

Neeld the teacher has got a huge job. But i think he is the right man.

Sorry to harp but where exactly in our team is the Fletchers,Hills, Watsons and McVeighs to lead the way and help our juniors develop. It is not an excuse - just an observation as to why our job is so much harder.

where are they.......

Hille, McVeigh Born 1981..... our version Brad Green (b1981)

Watson b1985 2 years younger than Davey (b1983)

Feeling any better?

(Fletcher of course is an amazing story of longevity and leadership... a freak really in the modern game.)

Who drives that negativity mate? This is a game, a sport where winner takes all and the loser be damned. We have been damned for 48 years so you can't blame the supporters for being negative. How about the club/team gives us something to be positive about instead of demanding positivity from the supporters who buy memberships and turn up year in, year out brimming with positivity only to be slapped back down to earth again almost instantly due to the pathetic efforts of the team wearing the blue & red out on the field. For the amount of crap the supporters have had to put up with (most of them their entire lives) I think they are doing extremely well to maintain any level of positivity whatsoever.

Well said Dr. G. We the supporters paid off the clubs massive debt, and have bought record memberships in the last 5 yers.

I didn't cause the debt, but i pitched in. I call that most positive.

Time for the club to excite the fans in the grandstand. Stop gloating about the past and play now.

with all due respect Who I think youve failed to grasp the simplicity of what OLD is getting at. . The "ideals" you speak of in your mini manifesto have been trotted out year in year out . To what avail. NADA...grand achievements...absolutely NOTHING

What you seem to be suggesting is text book Ra-Ra... go get em , stiif upper lip , come on chaps we can do it !!! I mean really. ..and further more we as supporters are supposed to clapand cheer and back emup relentlessly and unquestioningly so.

Well..I know 2 people sick to death of that hey OLD !!

Amen to that BB.

The other interesting thing is I not say I was not doing items 3-5 the Dr just assumes that if you do not support one item you do not support any.

You subscribe to the very TOXIC views we need to remove from our culture - sorry history does not back up your argument. Melbourne "supporters" have been leaving us for years because they wont focus on the positives. Your negativity is TOXIC.

Change or die.

PS I fully understand the "simplicity" of what he is saying & I said that on more than one occasion. He constantly focuses on the symptoms and just fails to seek the cause. Sorry but AFL Footy 2012 is not "simplistic".

But if it makes him feel any better to blame others - that says more about him & who agree with him than anything else. Mate its not about "our poor frustrated supporters" Its all about our WHOLE club. Our destiny is in our own hands until you & he recognise that - bleat on.

What you say has some merit.

I constantly hear supporters say "be patient? We've waited long enough!"

But have they?

I bet they've been saying just that, and trotting out the same defeatist attitude for 40+ years.

None of which does anything to help the MFC.

And I agree, it would drive other supporters away from the club or into apathy, making us weaker and weaker again...

I just wish they'd show some bloody backbone, exactly like they demand from our players.

31 win out of 121 game. But how good do the wins feel when you are that bad.

Not good enough to make up for the deluge of 10+ goal losses

So what. You barrack for a team that hasn't done well for many years and not so well at the moment. What's the big deal. Go follow Rangers or Celtic or Barcelona for a quick fix.

The bottom line - will you always barrack for the Dees? If the answer is yes then grow a backbone and support them rather than get enjoyment posting about failure. I don't know whether it's the celebrity culture or the need for instant success where there is the constant need to rip into things.

The Melbourne Football Club is what it is, win, lose or draw.

Who drives that negativity mate? This is a game, a sport where winner takes all and the loser be damned. We have been damned for 48 years so you can't blame the supporters for being negative. How about the club/team gives us something to be positive about instead of demanding positivity from the supporters who buy memberships and turn up year in, year out brimming with positivity only to be slapped back down to earth again almost instantly due to the pathetic efforts of the team wearing the blue & red out on the field. For the amount of crap the supporters have had to put up with (most of them their entire lives) I think they are doing extremely well to maintain any level of positivity whatsoever.

You got it all round the wrong way. Everything you want you will get - IF - you show the leadership and do it first. Or at least stop bleating in a continually negative manner. Try it you might surprise yourself - but you got to "buy in" not say one thing and do another. Time has not treated our supporters well - some clubs get it some clubs dont.

PS We drive the negativity - when you think you are beat - you are beat.

Edited April 12, 201213 yr by Dr Who

What you say has some merit.

I constantly hear supporters say "be patient? We've waited long enough!"

But have they?

I bet they've been saying just that, and trotting out the same defeatist attitude for 40+ years.

None of which does anything to help the MFC.

And I agree, it would drive other supporters away from the club or into apathy, making us weaker and weaker again...

I just wish they'd show some bloody backbone, exactly like they demand from our players.

And what do you suggest us impatient 40+ year supporters do to improve the situation??

I am all ears Dr. W...

I have paid $1,000's of bucks over the years to this club. I go to many games. I buy memberships scarves books DVD's, you name it

FFS don't tell me i am an impatient spineless supporter!

Since the VFL went professional this club has been hopeless in comparison to others.

Time for the club to find that backbone now.

But do tell me your solution....

What you say has some merit.

I constantly hear supporters say "be patient? We've waited long enough!"

But have they?

I bet they've been saying just that, and trotting out the same defeatist attitude for 40+ years.

None of which does anything to help the MFC.

And I agree, it would drive other supporters away from the club or into apathy, making us weaker and weaker again...

I just wish they'd show some bloody backbone, exactly like they demand from our players.

Besides buying a membership, raffle tickets, going to functions, buying jumpers etc, buying sponsors products, going to games and being positive year in year out I am not sure what more i could have done over the last 40 years.

I am really tired of it is the Supporters defeatist attitude that is the root cause of poor results, there were at least 25 000 members at the first game cheering them on, funny we got done by 8 goals

Do you really think that the players performance is effected by a few people on Demonland complaining that their ability is below good.

We truely are screwed if that is true.

I want success but you can't tell me is wasn't funny when Farmer handballed into the back of Lyon's head. Or Croswell, during the 5 year plan, would stop and spin the ball on his fingers virtually every time he took a mark. Or when we discovered that our new recruit, Templeton could no longer kick over a jam tin.

So what. You barrack for a team that hasn't done well for many years and not so well at the moment. What's the big deal. Go follow Rangers or Celtic or Barcelona for a quick fix.

The bottom line - will you always barrack for the Dees? If the answer is yes then grow a backbone and support them rather than get enjoyment posting about failure. I don't know whether it's the celebrity culture or the need for instant success where there is the constant need to rip into things.

The Melbourne Football Club is what it is, win, lose or draw.

RTG Why is it such a crime to acknowledge we are a bottom four side?

There's bemusement about our fortunes and then there's over the top anger. Better to be bemused and have a little perspective. Our time will come

I have an idea.

Lets get ourselves a headkicking coach with a mandate to change the culture of the club, put in place a new LG, demand physical excellence and generally lift the bar and expectations of the playing group.

It's not a crime Old Dee but it shouldn't be all consuming. Are you not excited at all about the future of the club?