Dennis Cometti sticks the boot in

[Guest Dr Who]

Spot on. Nic Nat was a huge flight risk. And is a key reason we did not draft him.

Yeah I'm surprised Commetti just took the approach of criticising our drafting yet offered NO alternatives or why we may have had concerns about the alternatives.

Its easy to criticise after the event - but where are all his suggestions as an "expert" in football drafting & a Melbourne "supporter" BEFORE the drafts!!!

No he talks about a "well-dressed" Melbourne supporter talking about Buddy Franklin --- WTF???? How did we miss "Buddy Franklin" - what club is Buddy at - oh thats right one of the highest spenders!!!! Passionate yes - well dressed - yes - ignorant also by the sounds of it.

No he has taken the cheap easy ignorant route .... cheap journalism poor effort Denis. He is stuck in a different era.

Edited April 5, 2012 by Dr Who

[Forest Demon 4,681]

Yeah, I want a Buddy Franklin...there are heaps of them floating around isn't there?

[Guest Dr Who]

Yeah, I want a Buddy Franklin...there are heaps of them floating around isn't there?

Exactly the article is just absolute rubbish - I'm surprised Denis put his name to such a shallow effort. Maybe a slow day in Perth?

[Still Waiting 94]

Cometti is a media circus performer. Think about it !!

Make a statement that might upset a few and then rake in the attention.

Viewers, equals ratings, equals dollars.

However, on this occasion he is right on the money.

At the present we have a team full of apparent powder puffs.

Over to you, MFC players,...................prove me and Cometti wrong!

Edited April 5, 2012 by Still Waiting

[Chook 15,022]

It's an extremely short article he could have written in fifteen minutes waiting for lunch. I wouldn't worry about it too much.

[Guest Thomo]

It's literally impossible to argue with Dr Who and a few others on this point. They seem to think we're the emotional ones, yet they stick to this whole 'benefit of hindsight' stance despite overwhelmingly evidence to the contrary. It seems clear to me who are the emotional thinkers here.

For instance, Rhino Richards claimed on another (equally depressing) thread that some of my views on our poor recruiting are 'a victory of hindsight over foresight'.

For a start, implicit in that statement is an acknowledgement that our recruiting HAS been poor.

From my perspective, I recall thinking many, many times over the last few years, 'wow, that's a curious choice for that pick - I had thought [insert name of Shuey, Darling, Zaharakis, Selwood, Pears etc] was a lock in, if available, at that pick'. But I then thought ( ... hoped/prayed) that these guys, as our expert recruiters, knew more than Kevin Sheehan and Emma Quayle et ors about recruitment, and our seemingly slightly left field choices may prove to be masterstroke selections. After all, I had thought the whole methodology as to why we 'bottomed out' for so long was to get a number of years of great draft picks so we could then identify, recruit and develop an elite list. Unfortunately, being given the great draft picks is only half the equation.

Well, to date, those selections haven't looked like masterstrokes - in fact, some of those picks actually look to have been reckless in the extreme. Pendergast is no longer at the club (our recruitment expert), and our list looks tres ordinaire, even though it could've been absolutely bullet proof by now. Bailey is also no longer at the club (our development coach). Not great signs about the quality of our recruitment and development of our list in recent years.

So, in short, my thinking has gone from 'what they hell are these guys doing' (foresight), to now - 'what the hell have these guys done' (hindsight).

It's not been the the opposite way around, as claimed by RR previously. (And RR, I can predict your response to this already - you'll hunt a victory of FORM over SUBSTANCE. Like an old school litigator you'll hit me with hours of required research and interrogatories, which, if I can't be stuffed answering because I am actually too busy or simply couldn't be bothered, you'll then say my claims are utterly baseless and assert victory in another keyboard argument.)

I've said it before, young ER surgeons are taught 'if you hear hooves beating, think horses not zebras' - IMO the same seems not to have applied to our recruitment - quite simply, we have NOT taken the obvious choices FOR THIS CLUB'S NEEDS all too often. If we did, we'd now have a much better - in fact, a great list.

I find this very, very depressing.

West Coast, with a few players that should be playing for us against them, by 80 this weekend.

Great post.

I've long thought that Melbourne have tried to be a bit to cleaver with the recruitment. It seems like Bailey,Pendergast and Schwab thought that they were just a bit smarter than everyone else. How many times have we heard "Surprise Pick", or "I can't believe we got all the players we wanted", well, it's because other clubs didn't value them as high. How many player were picked not because what they have done, but because what B/P/S are sure they will do, but everyone else can not see it. How about picking injured players - how are Gawns knees going?? Schwab with whiteboard Wednesdays showed his massive ego. He thinks he is Billy Beane, just a bit smarter than everyone else, looking for the players that have that something that everyone else is missing, while other clubs take the best players. There is currently not one list in the AFL that I would not swap for the Melbourne list.

Well, Melbourne have a crap list, no money and the smallest supporter base in the comp. I, like Dennis, have had a gutful.

[nutbean 8,838]

I've read some of your posts that seemed quite sensible. I must have caught you on a good day.

So Fyfe who's shone from day one has been unbelievably 'developed' by Freo ? Rockliff, who was a star at junior level, but had to wait until the pre-season draft because the knock on him was that he was slow has been a revelation because of the coaches at Brisbane ? Dustin Martin who has played like a veteran since his first game has been developed by the Tiges even though he's surrounded by spuds ? So Joel Selwood has only been a revelation because of the players around him at Geelong even though a top 5 pick in Kane Tenace surrounded by the same players couldn't make it ? So former top five draft picks in Goddard, Murphy, Judd, Hodge, Franklin, Pendlebury, Thomas, Riewoldt, Pavlich, became A graders purely because of development ?

Most professionals in footy clubs consider the head recruiter as the most important person at the club. Clearly player development is crucial, but anyone that says that talent identification isn't as important as player development, and most likely more so, is a gene short of a moron.

And by your very example of Rockcliff and Fyfe it shows the impossibility of the task when everyone passes on Rockcliffe adn Fyfe until they became highly speculative picks - the same as Howe was speculative for us. If Darling was such a sure thing why didnt WCE pick him up with pick 3 - Gaff has been no where near as impressive as Darling. Because Darling wasnt considered by WCE as a first round selection.

[nutbean 8,838]

in fact if we want to draw the line today on 2010 (which included Darling) the whole bloody industry got it wrong as the best of the bunch so far has probably Heppel at no 8. Swallow has been ok but no world beater abd looking at that list now Jeremy Howe would probably be elevated to a first round draft pick.

Surprise surprise - the players that had an instant impact are in the top 4 teams Isaac Smith, Puopolo, Fasolo, Darling - so yes playing with mature stars in a well coached enviroment is going to be so very important.

[Guest Dr Who]

Great post.

I've long thought that Melbourne have tried to be a bit to cleaver with the recruitment. It seems like Bailey,Pendergast and Schwab thought that they were just a bit smarter than everyone else. How many times have we heard "Surprise Pick", or "I can't believe we got all the players we wanted", well, it's because other clubs didn't value them as high. How many player were picked not because what they have done, but because what B/P/S are sure they will do, but everyone else can not see it. How about picking injured players - how are Gawns knees going?? Schwab with whiteboard Wednesdays showed his massive ego. He thinks he is Billy Beane, just a bit smarter than everyone else, looking for the players that have that something that everyone else is missing, while other clubs take the best players. There is currently not one list in the AFL that I would not swap for the Melbourne list.

Well, Melbourne have a crap list, no money and the smallest supporter base in the comp. I, like Dennis, have had a gutful.

Bailey & Schwab - WTF are you talking about. Are you serious? I'm sorry you are talking rubbish - complete rubbish.

You wouldn't happen to be a "well dressed passionate Demons supporter"?

Edited April 5, 2012 by Dr Who

[Hannibal 5,814]

And by your very example of Rockcliff and Fyfe it shows the impossibility of the task when everyone passes on Rockcliffe adn Fyfe until they became highly speculative picks - the same as Howe was speculative for us. If Darling was such a sure thing why didnt WCE pick him up with pick 3 - Gaff has been no where near as impressive as Darling. Because Darling wasnt considered by WCE as a first round selection.

You really have no clue. Both of those players were very highly rated juniors, they were hardly "speculative". Players slide every year for varying reasons and every year the industry gets embarrassed because they thought a players weakness would expose them at AFL level.

[Hannibal 5,814]

in fact if we want to draw the line today on 2010 (which included Darling) the whole bloody industry got it wrong as the best of the bunch so far has probably Heppel at no 8. Swallow has been ok but no world beater abd looking at that list now Jeremy Howe would probably be elevated to a first round draft pick.

Surprise surprise - the players that had an instant impact are in the top 4 teams Isaac Smith, Puopolo, Fasolo, Darling - so yes playing with mature stars in a well coached enviroment is going to be so very important.

Of course it's far easier for juniors to play with better players. There's no revelation there. It's always been the case.

Btw, Swallow will be a superstar.

[Mgdee 322]

Commetti's article sounded just like a disgruntled supporter having a good vent

Why didn't he just get an anonymous id and a flashy avatar on Demonland and have his little tanty there like the rest of us

Thanks Denis ([censored])

That's funny whilst reading the article I had to check that I wasn't still on Demonland.

Maybe he gets his copy from here.

[Guest Dr Who]

That's funny whilst reading the article I had to check that I wasn't still on Demonland.

Maybe he gets his copy from here.

Nice - I was "almost" tempted to hit the read more articles from Denis - then I thought WTF - if this is the crap simplistic drivel he serves up why bother.

[Biffen 12,947]

DA...FTW on 'Land's first ever bukkake reference.

* but I do agree with Dennis about our recruiting.

He may end up with egg on his face (for something completely different).

[darkhorse72 1,925]

read the article, nothing really in it, he's more lamenting our decline since the 60's. As for the recruiting, the comments were made by a Melbourne supporter, dennis was repeating them. The comment was that we don't have any "special" players. Davy used to be one when he first arrived, but it was somehow trained out of him?

The difference with our picks and others is the development environment they enter and the culture they take on. This is finally changing at the MFC. The lack of hard nosed senior players since the late nighties has slowed down team development, first by the favouritism of daniher in the later years and then bailey being too soft not eh players (from an outsiders perspective) it can be fixed in the very near future.

anyway off to watch the boys train at 9.30am at Claremont oval in the morning with the kids.

[nutbean 8,838]

You really have no clue. Both of those players were very highly rated juniors, they were hardly "speculative". Players slide every year for varying reasons and every year the industry gets embarrassed because they thought a players weakness would expose them at AFL level.

I have no clue ? Please explain to me in what world a rookie selection is not speculative ?

[Hannibal 5,814]

Yip - dont read it - why does that surprise me. Its not just about the identification - all kids that get drafted have talent - massive revelation there!!!!

Why would I read it when your very first line says: "Look I probably should also address the names you mentioned - with my own personal opinions - on why they are not wearing red & blue" ?

Why would I read it when I didn't query why any of those players were not at the MFC. If there was an award for someone that continually misses the point you'd be alone on the dais.

[nutbean 8,838]

Of course it's far easier for juniors to play with better players. There's no revelation there. It's always been the case.

Btw, Swallow will be a superstar.

What ? You are going to give swallow time are you before condemning his selection ? What a novel concept. I might be wrong but wasn't cook taken in the same draft ? Prepared to slam darling over cook but you will wait on swallow. A touch selective no ?

[Hannibal 5,814]

They are like gold because we are upping our footy spend .... massively! Hello!! We are investing big time in our football department - hello!!

Draft equalisation is a myth - its football department spend equalisation that WILL make the difference. Even the AFL has recognised that.

You have an overly emotional way of posting (!!! ??), but I'll press on.

Every footy supporter knows that player development and a club's football department spend is crucial. Why do you waste so much time stating the bleeding obvious ? It's just as important that you get your draft picks right so that the enormous investment that is put into these players will yield the best return. Draft the kids with the best talent and spend heavily in developing them.

You even acknowledge that our draft picks this year are like gold, so clearly you understand the importance of getting them right. If you think that massive dollars spent on every top 20 pick will yield fantastic returns you're delusional. As in any field of work some people are better than others and it's no different with recruiters. Picking the right players will always be as important as the dollars spent at developing them.

Your premise that it's purely player development that is important and not the players recruited shows a complete lack of understanding of recruiting as well as talent identification..

[Hannibal 5,814]

What ? You are going to give swallow time are you before condemning his selection ? What a novel concept. I might be wrong but wasn't cook taken in the same draft ? Prepared to slam darling over cook but you will wait on swallow. A touch selective no ?

I don't know why I engage some people on here as it's an utter waste of time.

Swallow is a sensational young player who has already shown his quality. Firstly, anyone with obvious talent is always going to be given time, secondly, he doesn't really need to be given time as his contributions are already first class for a one year player.

You say, "Prepared to slam darling over cook but you will wait on swallow". Where have I discussed Cook's lack of progress ? Quotations please. I really rate Darling and think it was an error not to draft him, as I did pre-draft, but I've made no such comments. I expect a retraction forthwith.

[nutbean 8,838]

We draft 18 year old kids who are so far removed from maturity. We get some insight at TAC level for 2 years and then we make decisions. These decisions are made with so much foresight that it boggles the mind. You can go through every team and see their drafting errors. As much as you may like Ball and Hodge they will never be in Judd's universe.

The only selections that I would hold the club responsible for is Watts as by all expert opinion there was a clear equal choice. It's too early to judge yet.

But I find it too hard to swallow that we have not been able to recruit a star in the last 20 years. Not one. Poor culture , coaching and development.

[nutbean 8,838]

I don't know why I engage some people on here as it's an utter waste of time.

Swallow is a sensational young player who has already shown his quality. Firstly, anyone with obvious talent is always going to be given time, secondly, he doesn't really need to be given time as his contributions are already first class for a one year player.

You say, "Prepared to slam darling over cook but you will wait on swallow". Where have I discussed Cook's lack of progress ? Quotations please. I really rate Darling and think it was an error not to draft him, as I did pre-draft, but I've made no such comments. I expect a retraction forthwith.

If it was an error not to draft Darling then you would have chosen Darling instead of Cook. Please let me know why , why do you rate darling over cook.

[Hannibal 5,814]

If it was an error not to draft Darling then you would have chosen Darling instead of Cook. Please let me know why , why do you rate darling over cook.

Before I answer that, you posted "Prepared to slam darling over cook" before I even referred to Darling, or Cook.

Where did you get that from ?

[nutbean 8,838]

Before I answer that, you posted "Prepared to slam darling over cook" before I even referred to Darling, or Cook.

Where did you get that from ?

I read your post in the bp topic and offer an apology. You said you both pro darling and cook. A good post indeed.

. My main gripe has been and always be that some (not you) are writing off kids before they have had a chance to mature. I will never write off anyone in particular talls until 22/23

[Hannibal 5,814]

I read your post in the bp topic and offer an apology. You said you both pro darling and cook. A good post indeed.

Thank you.

I like Darling because I think his smarts, speed, reading of the play and aggression would perfectly compliment our forward line. I rate him highly and would have preferred him over Cook, but that in itself is not a condemnation of Cook. I look forward to Cook's development and he's shown glimpses of why he was named CHF in the AA u/18 team.