I was at the game and went through every emotion possible. Praise the lord that I was close to the bar. But to say we are different now, we have changed and we are hungrier then ever to win is complete bollocks to me. A win over the filth in a bank cup game doesn't mean squat to me. Show me during this year and every other year what we are capable of and I will believe the fortune of this great club has changed. I don't want to be negative I believe this list will bring us success but this list hasn't done anything yet. It's good to be excited with a new coach and new staff around the club but every club right now except G.W.S think they are a chance for the 8.

Yes you are right. But the club has been as proactive as it can be so far to correct what had happened. That to me is positive. But we will only know for sure once the 4 points are on the line.

It wasn't all his fault & he waan't the only one moved on.

Are you sure about that? We had an internal problem and I'm saying no more.

Are you sure about that? We had an internal problem and I'm saying no more.

Yes we had an internal problem of quite large proportions, so it would seem.

Why would that mean it was all DB's fault. Yes it may have been but i highly doubt it. We will have to wait for the "tell all" book

If anybody says that was the loss we had to have, I will hunt them down and karate chop their face off.

That was the most destructive, humiliating, disgusting and downright disgraceful thing I have ever experienced as a supporter and paid up member of this club. I never in my life felt so much apathy towards Melbourne as I did in the days following that game, and I think if anything it made me a bit more numb to the emotions associated with being an MFC supporter.

I still love this club, and will support it until the day that I die, but that day can never be undone, and for many of us, that pain will not disappear until we win a premiership.

Everything that we have achieved during the pre-season could have been achieved without this loss, and without the ensuing humiliation.

Yes we had an internal problem of quite large proportions, so it would seem.

Why would that mean it was all DB's fault. Yes it may have been but i highly doubt it. We will have to wait for the "tell all" book

Sorry, but you where telling the "story". I just merely questioned what you knew. But I think your reply clears it up for me. Where you have stated your opinion which is fine, all be it somewhat vague, which again is fine.

Everything that we have achieved during the pre-season could have been achieved without this loss, and without the ensuing humiliation.

it was the retro rocket up the aisle the MFC needed bady. We had already had bruise free days against Carlton & Wet Coke & nothing happened. After 186 it did.

The Football Dept was in dissaray & under funded. I donated to the "100+" fund that was to be directly put into the FD. This is why i do not totally blame Bails. He had to go, yes but that wasn't the only problem.

Look who is on the payroll since 186...

I am glad it happened when it did.

Although i am suprised the FD was not being seen to 12 months ago.

it was the retro rocket up the aisle the MFC needed bady. We had already had bruise free days against Carlton & Wet Coke & nothing happened. After 186 it did.

The Football Dept was in dissaray & under funded. I donated to the "100+" fund that was to be directly put into the FD. This is why i do not totally blame Bails. He had to go, yes but that wasn't the only problem.

Look who is on the payroll since 186...

I am glad it happened when it did.

Although i am suprised the FD was not being seen to 12 months ago.

WYL, what percentage of the FD should be the total auspice of the coach? 60, 70, 80%? Bailey was a train wreck. Had 3 years to develop a 'press' which was the new buzz word but had no idea. I love the irony that he's gone to the Crows as a game strategist? Gimme a break.......!

it was the retro rocket up the aisle the MFC needed bady. We had already had bruise free days against Carlton & Wet Coke & nothing happened. After 186 it did.

The Football Dept was in dissaray & under funded. I donated to the "100+" fund that was to be directly put into the FD. This is why i do not totally blame Bails. He had to go, yes but that wasn't the only problem.

Look who is on the payroll since 186...

I am glad it happened when it did.

Although i am suprised the FD was not being seen to 12 months ago.

Although I agree we were under funded. Throwing money at our problem would not have solved it. Wait for the book, you will find it a very interesting read.

WYL, what percentage of the FD should be the total auspice of the coach? 60, 70, 80%? Bailey was a train wreck. Had 3 years to develop a 'press' which was the new buzz word but had no idea. I love the irony that he's gone to the Crows as a game strategist? Gimme a break.......!

The coach should be top of the chain in the FD without a doubt, but if it is severely under funded which i suspect ours was, there is only so much you can do. Our list was not big enough to implement a "press" for a full game...problems start there. One of many.

Although I agree we were under funded. Throwing money at our problem would not have solved it. Wait for the book, you will find it a very interesting read.

$$$ for resources would have helped. I have always wondered what Bailey's brief from the MFC was when he took the job on? How restrained was he?

Bailey did a solid job for 2 1/2 years...year 4 was a train wreck, no arguement there,& why i was peversely glad when 186 ocurred.

Martin Flanagan should write the book.

Sorry, but you where telling the "story". I just merely questioned what you knew. But I think your reply clears it up for me. Where you have stated your opinion which is fine, all be it somewhat vague, which again is fine.

Yes it is just my take, but i think we all know it was bigger than one man.

I never understood the rationale of the Half Back Flank "Press" i must say!! But it was implemented for a reason we are not close enough to know. Dean knows footy so i would love to hear his view.

I must say our NAB cup this year is like essendon of last year. The thing that makes me excited is that the bombers played really well for the first half of the year than they went down hill but melbourne has a guy called david mission who will help us keep running all year so i think we could really surprise a few this year and we also have a much better list IMO than the bombers. i just had my 186th post on this site in this thread is this bad luck.

Personally, it frustrates me that some supporters are soooo optimistic.

When I challenge that optimism, I'm attacked for being too negative.

People mistake expectations for negativity.

I expect the club to perform. I do not expect 186 point losses.

And so, it's reached a point now where I am no longer optimistic. I am just going to sit back and say, "OK, you talk a lot, but how big is your bark?"

I have "faith", but optimism is earned. I am optimistic that Neeld knows what he's doing, but I am not optimistic that the club can win a flag. That comes down to criticism as to the club's culture, mindset, and willingness to succeed across the board.

Saying, "we are making crossroads" means nothing until we are leading, or at least near to leading, in every facet, including revenue, assets, membership. At the moment, I am personally not especially impressed. I am sure they are trying, but, eh, get the job done?

I'll be optimistic when we make the finals 2-3 years in a row, start posting consecutive profits, improve our membership growth and social media presence, oh, and sign a major sponsor. Until then, I'll be critical about the club's ability to perform.

The 186 point loss made me a livid, angry man, and I simply cannot accept it, even to this day. Everyone should be held accountable, and the ultimate redemption is success.

IMO, if you think any other way, you're accepting mediocrity. Or at least passing it off as something easily rectified.

Yes it is just my take, but i think we all know it was bigger than one man.

I never understood the rationale of the Half Back Flank "Press" i must say!! But it was implemented for a reason we are not close enough to know. Dean knows footy so i would love to hear his view.

Yip, I accept its your "take." However, thats where I will stop agreeing with you. Many, many incidents prior to 186 final trigger point lead to the conclusion that all the problems lead to one source. What is in the past will remain in the past - we have moved on now. Think I will leave it there.

Yip, I accept its your "take." However, thats where I will stop agreeing with you. Many, many incidents prior to 186 final trigger point lead to the conclusion that all the problems lead to one source. What is in the past will remain in the past - we have moved on now. Think I will leave it there.

Fair enough...But not even a great coach can do too much if he does not have the resources to help back him up. The amount of change since August seems to back this up to a point.

We will find out in just a few weeks...

Fair enough...But not even a great coach can do too much if he does not have the resources to help back him up. The amount of change since August seems to back this up to a point.

We will find out in just a few weeks...

I balme not only the coach but also a flawed overal strategy. Two to three years of tanking was a very poor education for a callow list which sucked the spirit and enthusiasim out of the players. And strategies like resting Trengove and Scully for the visit to Geelong in 2010 was a prime example of the quitters mentality that was pervasive throughout 2011.

I balme not only the coach but also a flawed overal strategy. Two to three years of tanking was a very poor education for a callow list which sucked the spirit and enthusiasim out of the players. And strategies like resting Trengove and Scully for the visit to Geelong in 2010 was a prime example of the quitters mentality that was pervasive throughout 2011.

Whilst I agree with a fair bit of your post 'Jackie' , I dispute the 2 to 3 years of tanking bit . A few games near the end of 2009 but the rest of the time we were simply a basket case . Generally incapable of winning and poorly coached . Weren't we developing and rebuilding our list as well ?

Many other clubs tanked for longer periods of time and have seemingly gotten away with it . The general public point the finger at us but how about Carlton for about 4 years ? Pies in 2005 , Hawks in 2004 and 2005 etc etc . It's a long grubby list and we shouldn't be the "fall guy" .

I see it often on this site . Demon fans beating themselves up over this tanking issue for no good reason . We shouldn't be bullied into submission .

For instance , how on earth were we capable of beating the Saints in the last round of 2009 ? We played Carlton the previous week who won 13 games that year . Saints won 20 games .

One day I'm going to compile a list in a thread of all the "suspect" finishes to the year (by various teams) . It's a long list and amounts to about 23 times teams have "probably/possibly" tanked .

Cheers .

I balme not only the coach but also a flawed overal strategy. Two to three years of tanking was a very poor education for a callow list which sucked the spirit and enthusiasim out of the players. And strategies like resting Trengove and Scully for the visit to Geelong in 2010 was a prime example of the quitters mentality that was pervasive throughout 2011.

I dispute the 2 to 3 years of tanking bit . A few games near the end of 2009 but the rest of the time we were simply a basket case . Generally incapable of winning and poorly coached . Weren't we developing and rebuilding our list as well ?

Many other clubs tanked for longer periods of time and have seemingly gotten away with it . The general public point the finger at us but how about Carlton for about 4 years ? Pies in 2005 , Hawks in 2004 and 2005 etc etc . It's a long grubby list and we shouldn't be the "fall guy" .

I see it often on this site . Demon fans beating themselves up over this tanking issue for no good reason . We shouldn't be bullied into submission .

For instance , how on earth were we capable of beating the Saints in the last round of 2009 ? We played Carlton the previous week who won 13 games that year . Saints won 20 games .

One day I'm going to compile a list in a thread of all the "suspect" finishes to the year (by various teams) . It's a long list and amounts to about 23 times teams have "probably/possibly" tanked .

Cheers .

Well answered.

It is often mentioned how frangrantly we tanked.

We did tank - in one game against Richmond. A pulsating affair that showed how we nearly screwed it all up - we required Jordan McMahon to kick a goal after the siren from 50m out...

We were never going to beat St Kilda - despite our oh-so-fast start...

Most clubs have tanked for the PPs, but because of MFC fans perpensity for self-loathing we have let the greater football public lump Bailey and the MFC with all the ills of The Tank in AFL Footy ©.

We didn't start it, we didn't end it, and we, in the end, didn't even profit from it.

So who gives a f...?

I was at the game and went through every emotion possible. Praise the lord that I was close to the bar. But to say we are different now, we have changed and we are hungrier then ever to win is complete bollocks to me. A win over the filth in a bank cup game doesn't mean squat to me. Show me during this year and every other year what we are capable of and I will believe the fortune of this great club has changed. I don't want to be negative I believe this list will bring us success but this list hasn't done anything yet. It's good to be excited with a new coach and new staff around the club but every club right now except G.W.S think they are a chance for the 8.

I don't necessarily think that people are expecting we're hungrier to win etc. just that the intent during the clash vs. collingwood was very much unlike how we've played in recent years

I think 186 was the straw (bale) that broke the camels back and forced Melb to take decisive action to address issues in the club that had probably been apparent for a year or two. If Neeld and the boys have a good 2012, we make the finals, and play consistently hard footy, then 186 may have been worth enduring.

If we win a flag under Neeld's reign, then 186 was a blessing.

Go Dees

Whilst I agree with a fair bit of your post 'Jackie' , I dispute the 2 to 3 years of tanking bit . A few games near the end of 2009 but the rest of the time we were simply a basket case . Generally incapable of winning and poorly coached . Weren't we developing and rebuilding our list as well ?

Many other clubs tanked for longer periods of time and have seemingly gotten away with it . The general public point the finger at us but how about Carlton for about 4 years ? Pies in 2005 , Hawks in 2004 and 2005 etc etc . It's a long grubby list and we shouldn't be the "fall guy" .

I see it often on this site . Demon fans beating themselves up over this tanking issue for no good reason . We shouldn't be bullied into submission .

For instance , how on earth were we capable of beating the Saints in the last round of 2009 ? We played Carlton the previous week who won 13 games that year . Saints won 20 games .

One day I'm going to compile a list in a thread of all the "suspect" finishes to the year (by various teams) . It's a long list and amounts to about 23 times teams have "probably/possibly" tanked .

Cheers .

Jordan McMahon will be forever etched in my heart as my favourite player to come out of Tigerland!

Jordan McMahon will be forever etched in my heart as my favourite player to come out of Tigerland!

If we won the Richmond game, we still had Freo at the "G" the next game(or two) which we won but could have 'lost' as insurance

If we won the Richmond game, we still had Freo at the "G" the next game(or two) which we won but could have 'lost' as insurance

God how i hated those years! Cheering to lose, it's like kissing your Grandma!!

God how i hated those years! Cheering to lose, it's like kissing your Grandma!!

Me too but I could see what the club was trying to achieve.

Me too but I could see what the club was trying to achieve.

So could i, but it still made my guts crawl. The previous board had let it all slide....