So would you be happy next year if we were more consistent but still won 8 1/2 games? I dont look at the

1975 or 1992 ladder, see our win-loss record and think "If only we'd kicked 2 more goals against Fitzroy in '75

and St Kilda in '93 we wouldve had two more wins and moved up two spots". I look at our end of year win-loss record.

Its win-loss ratios that coaches are judged on, and what perceptions on playing lists mental fragilities and

leadership deficiencies are assesed.

If we hadve won those two games, Id still be disappointed in our season as a whole, and expected us to win more games

the year after.

We are talking past each other.

I don't like seasons measured on the W/L column at the end of the year.

What if we are 10 wins after 17 rounds? Is then going on a epic losing streak forgivable because we reached our goal?

Hard and fast measurements lead to hard lessons and fast regrets.

Hale didn't come to us, not because he didn't want to, but because Hawthorn were prepared to give North a higher pick in exchange than we were. Simple as that.

Not to mention, there were many (a majority I would say) round here who didn't want Hale at all, and saw it as yet another sign of the perceived mediocrity of Melbourne in going for another team's reject. Now suddenly it's become in your eyes a measure of our lack of ability to attract "good seasoned players".

As for the "choir boy" remark ...

I look forward to the first hard seasoned player to join the MFC ranks.

and as for choir boys! please deliver me a [censored] who can play next year.

There are always those that struggle to see the undervalued properties, bb.

In the years to come we'll see whether you're right, or whether I've spotted something in this renovator's delight.

(I'm prepared for OMR to bump this at the end of 2013 ).

Now Roguey

I seriously doubt there will be anymore Post bumping from me before 2020.

I am still recovering from the malicious "Pack Head Kicking" I received last week instigated by your good self.

However I am in the same corner as you on this one.

Despite the 2011 "train wreck" of a season that has just unfolded I firmly believe with a new Voice,

direction & game plan, our list has the foundations to rebound quickly.

All is not as it currently seems - Big 3 months about to shape our history.

I look forward to the first hard seasoned player to join the MFC ranks.

Like the ones we have lumbering round in the two's ... Warnock and Dunn for example? Great idea, let's build a team around them and their ilk ...

Like the ones we have lumbering round in the two's ... Warnock and Dunn for example? Great idea, let's build a team around them and their ilk ...

?????? what a stupid response. You knew exactly what he was getting at

?????? what a stupid response. You knew exactly what he was getting at

I guess he means we do not want to stray from this successful path we are on now DC.

Not wanting to risk the ire of the doomsters by being too optimistic. I think our young team has just experienced a character building year that will serve to build the grit and resilience of our list of gifted kids. 2010 saw the team over perform on the back of Jamar, Green and the old brigade. This year the senior group struggled with injury and form and the young kids were revealed to be a year or two off the required level.

However, with another pre-season into our kids the following will get better and (if injury free) have better years in 2012:

1. Bail, Rohan
   
2. Bennell, Jamie
   
3. Blease, Sam
   
4. Grimes, Jack
   
5. Gysberts, Jordan
   
6. Howe, Jeremy
   
7. Jetta, Neville
   
8. Jurrah, Liam
   
9. Martin, Stefan
   
10. McDonald, Tom
    
11. McKenzie, Jordie
    
12. Morton, Cale
    
13. Petterd, Ricky
    
14. Scully, Tom
    
15. Tapscott, Luke
    
16. Trengove, Jack
    
17. Watts, Jack
    
18. Wonaeamirri, Austin
    

Others will display their mastery of the art and continue to produce consistent performances:

1. Frawley, James
   
2. Garland, Colin
   
3. Jamar, Mark
   
4. Jones, Nathan
   
5. Macdonald, Joel
   
6. Moloney, Brent
   
7. Rivers, Jared
   
8. Sylvia, Colin
   
9. Bartram, Clint
   

Some will fight back to redeem their performances in 2011:

1. Green, Brad
   
2. Bate, Matthew
   
3. Davey, Aaron
   

Some kids will blossom before we expected them to:

1. Gawn, Max
   
2. Spencer, Jake
   
3. Cook, Lucas
   
4. Davis, Troy
   
5. Fitzpatrick, Jack
   

And some will confirm our suspicions or pleasantly surprise us:

1. Maric, Addam
   
2. Warnock, Matthew
   
3. Dunn, Lynden
   

And one poor sod will hopefully fully recover from a broken leg:

1. Strauss, James
   

In 2012 we have a new coach, a renewed focus on accountable team footy, and most importantly a maturing team of proud and talented young players who have just endured the most humiliating year of their football careers to date.

Bring on 2012!!! It will be a cracker...

In a big way this year we lost 6 games by 9+ goals including a 31 goal loss.

In 2010 we had only 2 losses of 9+ goals.

Whatever way I look at it this year has been a disaster.

Wasn't flash was it?

I'll be there again next year but won't let the football interrupt my holidays, I don't do that any more. I used to say to my wife, "we can't go away in the footy season" but it doesn't seem to matter much now. I still love the footy and will always pay for my many memberships but to be quite honest I'm losing the passion as each year goes by and i just can't get excited about winning more quarters this year than we did last. I know it's a foolish notion but I actually want to win games.

I reckon we'll go backwards next year and will probably finish in the bottom three, I think Brisbane, Adelaide and Gold Coast will go past us and if we are lucky Port will remain as they are and GW$cully will be crap.

We gave the Board a debt free club now here's hoping they can do something with it, they haven't done a great job so far.

Not wanting to risk the ire of the doomsters by being too optimistic. I think our young team has just experienced a character building year that will serve to build the grit and resilience of our list of gifted kids. 2010 saw the team over perform on the back of Jamar, Green and the old brigade. This year the senior group struggled with injury and form and the young kids were revealed to be a year or two off the required level.

However, with another pre-season into our kids the following will get better and (if injury free) have better years in 2012:

1. Bail, Rohan
   
2. Bennell, Jamie
   
3. Blease, Sam
   
4. Grimes, Jack
   
5. Gysberts, Jordan
   
6. Howe, Jeremy
   
7. Jetta, Neville
   
8. Jurrah, Liam
   
9. Martin, Stefan
   
10. McDonald, Tom
    
11. McKenzie, Jordie
    
12. Morton, Cale
    
13. Petterd, Ricky
    
14. Scully, Tom
    
15. Tapscott, Luke
    
16. Trengove, Jack
    
17. Watts, Jack
    
18. Wonaeamirri, Austin
    

Others will display their mastery of the art and continue to produce consistent performances:

1. Frawley, James
   
2. Garland, Colin
   
3. Jamar, Mark
   
4. Jones, Nathan
   
5. Macdonald, Joel
   
6. Moloney, Brent
   
7. Rivers, Jared
   
8. Sylvia, Colin
   
9. Bartram, Clint
   

Some will fight back to redeem their performances in 2011:

1. Green, Brad
   
2. Bate, Matthew
   
3. Davey, Aaron
   

Some kids will blossom before we expected them to:

1. Gawn, Max
   
2. Spencer, Jake
   
3. Cook, Lucas
   
4. Davis, Troy
   
5. Fitzpatrick, Jack
   

And some will confirm our suspicions or pleasantly surprise us:

1. Maric, Addam
   
2. Warnock, Matthew
   
3. Dunn, Lynden
   

And one poor sod will hopefully fully recover from a broken leg:

1. Strauss, James
   

In 2012 we have a new coach, a renewed focus on accountable team footy, and most importantly a maturing team of proud and talented young players who have just endured the most humiliating year of their football careers to date.

Bring on 2012!!! It will be a cracker...

You are taking the [censored]; aren't you?

Wasn't flash was it?

I'll be there again next year but won't let the football interrupt my holidays, I don't do that any more. I used to say to my wife, "we can't go away in the footy season" but it doesn't seem to matter much now. I still love the footy and will always pay for my many memberships but to be quite honest I'm losing the passion as each year goes by and i just can't get excited about winning more quarters this year than we did last. I know it's a foolish notion but I actually want to win games.

I reckon we'll go backwards next year and will probably finish in the bottom three, I think Brisbane, Adelaide and Gold Coast will go past us and if we are lucky Port will remain as they are and GW$cully will be crap.

We gave the Board a debt free club now here's hoping they can do something with it, they haven't done a great job so far.

I am fairly similar RobbieF.

I do now take holidays during winter and there is a benefit it helps to have a break mid season.

Not sure I could survive 24 weeks of the dees performances after all these years.

2010 I went on a cruise for 16 days. It was totally free of AFL and I discovered I came out the other end well and in good humour.

yes I will front up again in 2012 but my expectations are low and by late July a coral atoll without communication will look attractive.

I am fairly similar RobbieF.

I do now take holidays during winter and there is a benefit it helps to have a break mid season.

Not sure I could survive 24 weeks of the dees performances after all these years.

2010 I went on a cruise for 16 days. It was totally free of AFL and I discovered I came out the other end well and in good humour.

yes I will front up again in 2012 but my expectations are low and by late July a coral atoll without communication will look attractive.

I'm in Florence at the moment, we've had 6 weeks in Paris and after here Rome for a few days then Hong Kong and home. We will have to look for flat places after this year, Mrs Robbie has developed a serious heart problem and can't walk up inclines and stairs so Switzerland is no longer an option and it looks as if Hawaii might be it in future.

I buy memberships for all the kids (4 sons 1 grandson) and Mrs Robbie, plus a few others, but usually its me the second eldest and the grandson, the rest don't go, one lives in Townsville so he's excused, I only get him the ticket for the guaranteed GF ticket; who am I kidding. I get the feeling that if I stopped going the son and grandson wouldn't go anymore either.

2012? Seen too many false dawns and saviours at the club and until they kick out all the badness that's there it will never change. The club needs a change of attitude and needs to develop a hardness that is never there now, even amongst its supporters.

I'm in Florence at the moment, we've had 6 weeks in Paris and after here Rome for a few days then Hong Kong and home. We will have to look for flat places after this year, Mrs Robbie has developed a serious heart problem and can't walk up inclines and stairs so Switzerland is no longer an option and it looks as if Hawaii might be it in future.

I buy memberships for all the kids (4 sons 1 grandson) and Mrs Robbie, plus a few others, but usually its me the second eldest and the grandson, the rest don't go, one lives in Townsville so he's excused, I only get him the ticket for the guaranteed GF ticket; who am I kidding. I get the feeling that if I stopped going the son and grandson wouldn't go anymore either.

2012? Seen too many false dawns and saviours at the club and until they kick out all the badness that's there it will never change. The club needs a change of attitude and needs to develop a hardness that is never there now, even amongst its supporters.

Hawaii is the go mate.been there a few times and always enjoy it

Good weather all year round.

Only problem is the communications are too good, too easy to find out what is happening in Australia.

Strange thing, I have noticed a loss in a foreign country heard the next day does not seem all that important.

PS Start buying all the memberships again in 5 years, the savings will get you a good holiday somewhere.

And tell Mrs Robbie hills are for AFL players, flat is great!