On 02/09/2011 at 05:45, Range Rover said:

Again, unprovable but common sense would lead one to that conclusion.

I gotta bite again - For Trenners to sign three weeks ago because he was certain Scully was going to GWS is just plain dumb - simply zero reason for Trenners to do it when he did when he could wait a month and know for absolute certain when announced. Trenners contract is not up until next year.

Common sense would lead you to the conclusion that the club is still suggesting that Scully is staying. Common sense would lead you to the conclusion that had Trenners waited for the announcement that Scully is leaving, that this announcement frees up $600K per year. Common sense tells you he may have got a large slice after the announcement with more money available than before the announcement.

Common sense would lead you to my conclusions not lead you to your conclusions.

  On 02/09/2011 at 06:00, tonatopia said:

I had a dream that scully was sitting with a gangster, both wearing aviator mirrored sunglasses. WTF?

LOL post of the multi-Scully threads over the year. At least it gave me a laugh, seriously reading through this stuff is enough to give you a headache.

  On 02/09/2011 at 06:04, nutbean said:

I gotta bite again - For Trenners to sign three weeks ago because he was certain Scully was going to GWS is just plain dumb - simply zero reason for Trenners to do it when he did when he could wait a month and know for absolute certain when announced. Trenners contract is not up until next year.

Common sense would lead you to the conclusion that the club is still suggesting that Scully is staying. Common sense would lead you to the conclusion that had Trenners waited for the announcement that Scully is leaving, that this announcement frees up $600K per year. Common sense tells you he may have got a large slice after the announcement with more money available than before the announcement.

Common sense would lead you to my conclusions not lead you to your conclusions.

Or ... he and his management did know for certain three weeks ago and signed the document based on that certainty. It certainly gave the club and its members a boost to receive that news near the end of what was a horror run of performances, coupled with a drop in attendances and interest.

Again, unless a key actor in the drama (let's say Jim Stynes) comes out and says this or that is exactly what happened, no-one will ever really know. From where I sit, what I've suggested makes solid sense, though. Not from where you or some others sit, but that's okay.

In all likelihood we're all just theorizing until Tom writes the definitive book on his career 12 from years from now.

* Edit ... Or quite possibly two years from now if his knee is shot.

  On 02/09/2011 at 06:15, Range Rover said:

Or ... he and his management did know for certain three weeks ago and signed the document based on that certainty. It certainly gave the club and its members a boost to receive that news near the end of what was a horror run of performances, coupled with a drop in attendances and interest.

Again, unless a key actor in the drama (let's say Jim Stynes) comes out and says this or that is exactly what happened, no-one will ever really know. From where I sit, what I've suggested makes solid sense, though. Not from where you or some others sit, but that's okay.

In all likelihood we're all just theorizing until Tom writes the definitive book on his career 12 from years from now.

No - i haven't taken you to task on most of your stuff because it was logical opinion even though i didnt agree with it.

You are trying to have an each way bet.

Your original post suggested that Trenners signed with MFC because he knew that Scully had signed GWS and that basically made Trenners off limits to GWS. If he was even contemplating GWS being after him then he would contemplate it for the money. So common sense dictates that you wait for the SScully announcement to be official and then there is more money for all.

Common sense tells me Trenners signed when he did because he is happy with his offer and doesnt compare to what others may or may not get and i take him exactly at his word that the timing was a good omen in bad times for the club.

Edit: as soon as you try and link GWS with Trenners thinking you argument comes unstuck - GWS = money and he would have had more bargaining power after an official announcement not before. He signed when he did because money and GWS is not a motivating factor

  On 02/09/2011 at 06:27, nutbean said:

No - i haven't taken you to task on most of your stuff because it was logical opinion even though i didnt agree with it.

You are trying to have an each way bet.

Your original post suggested that Trenners signed with MFC because he knew that Scully had signed GWS and that basically made Trenners off limits to GWS. If he was even contemplating GWS being after him then he would contemplate it for the money. So common sense dictates that you wait for it to be official and then there is more money for all.

Common sense tells me Trenners signed when he did because he is happy with his offer and doesnt compare to what others may or may not get and i take him exactly at his word that the timing was a good omen in bad times for the club.

Forgive me but how am I trying to have an each-way bet?

  On 02/09/2011 at 06:04, maurie said:

Rubbish. The only ordeal anyone has gone through is entirely self-inflicted or self-imagined. There may be a psychological term for it.

You don't happen to know the name of the psychological term? I might go see the Shrink and get me a cure.

  On 02/09/2011 at 06:30, Range Rover said:

Forgive me but how am I trying to have an each-way bet?

You are trying to link Trenners re-signing with Scully and GWS. You stated that he signed when he did because his management knew Trenners was no longer available to GWS because GWS were taking Scully. If Trenners was at all interested in GWS then the reason could only be for money and if it was about money for him then he would wait until the announcement was official because if Scully goes there will be $600K PA more in the kitty to splash about.

So tell me - how on earth was the timing of Trenners signing beneficial financially to him at that time ? As opposed to after Scully has declared his hand and there is $600K more PA

I posted this on BigFooty. I expect most of you to disagree and have a go, but eh, I'm used to it on here. I'm just a realist at the end of the day:

I said recently that there wasn't much differential between $1 million and $600k...when you should only be earning $150-$200k anyway. I mean, people are saying, "would you knock back $1 million?", but they're forgetting he is also knocking back $600k, which on its own accord is already 100% higher than what he'd be getting had GWS not entered the picture.

If I was 20 and someone offered me what Scully has been offered, I'd think it would be, ummm, maybe disloyal, greedy to accept $1 million, because at the end of the day I'd be earning considerably more than what I'm worth anyway. It's not like he's choosing $1 million over $150k. The decision is not as hard as people are making it out to be.

To be honest, if he goes to GWS, it will be more indicative of the state of the club than it would be of Scully's personality. If Pies players are knocking back bigger offers, there shouldn't be a reason as to why a Demons player can't. But there is, and we all know how much of a joke Melbourne is off-field.

No one can escape that, including Melbourne supporters. He's gone, and when it's official, I'll be livid. Not with Scully, but with Melbourne. It's simply not good enough. I won't accept any excuses. How bad must the club be for a player to walk away from:

The MCG

Melbourne

His friends

His family

After only 28 games and 2 years at the club, for GWS and what will be $200k more after tax, even though he'd been earning 100% more than what someone his age is probably worth if he stayed at Melbourne.

It's very bad PR for Melbourne imo. It's been a shocking 2011.

And it's simply NOT GOOD ENOUGH.

Won't sit around for 50 years waiting for a flag like the old man. And I'm sick of people making up excuses for this club.

Yeah, and if he pisses off leaves then at least he would be leaving on a winning note which he should savour because I reckon he won't be playing in too many winning teams for GWS this side of 2015.

  On 02/09/2011 at 06:37, nutbean said:

You are trying to link Trenners re-signing with Scully and GWS. You stated that he signed when he did because his management knew Trenners was no longer available to GWS because GWS were taking Scully. If Trenners was at all interested in GWS then the reason could only be for money and if it was about money for him then he would wait until the announcement was official because if Scully goes there will be $600K PA more in the kitty to splash about.

So tell me - how on earth was the timing of Trenners signing beneficial financially to him at that time ? As opposed to after Scully has declared his hand and there is $600K more PA

But I've already stated that I think Scully declared his hand to the club a good while ago. Therefore, the club knew a fair while back how much it was prepared to put on the table for Trenners. And Trenners management knew roughly how much extra there was in the kitty for their player.

From my standpoint, I am actually lauding Scully for doing the right thing by the club and notifying them of his intentions early on.

It's allowed us to sign Trengove (and a host of other young guns) early and make morale boosting announcements to that effect to the members.

An each-way bet? Still don't understand what you're getting at

*Adds - It's also benefited Trengove in the eyes of the Demon faithful by portraying him as a loyal, red-and-blue-bleeding fan of the footy club. That's great PR right there.

  On 02/09/2011 at 06:37, Cudi_420 said:

I posted this on BigFooty. I expect most of you to disagree and have a go, but eh, I'm used to it on here. I'm just a realist at the end of the day:

I said recently that there wasn't much differential between $1 million and $600k...when you should only be earning $150-$200k anyway. I mean, people are saying, "would you knock back $1 million?", but they're forgetting he is also knocking back $600k, which on its own accord is already 100% higher than what he'd be getting had GWS not entered the picture.

If I was 20 and someone offered me what Scully has been offered, I'd think it would be, ummm, maybe disloyal, greedy to accept $1 million, because at the end of the day I'd be earning considerably more than what I'm worth anyway. It's not like he's choosing $1 million over $150k. The decision is not as hard as people are making it out to be.

To be honest, if he goes to GWS, it will be more indicative of the state of the club than it would be of Scully's personality. If Pies players are knocking back bigger offers, there shouldn't be a reason as to why a Demons player can't. But there is, and we all know how much of a joke Melbourne is off-field.

No one can escape that, including Melbourne supporters. He's gone, and when it's official, I'll be livid. Not with Scully, but with Melbourne. It's simply not good enough. I won't accept any excuses. How bad must the club be for a player to walk away from:

The MCG

Melbourne

His friends

His family

After only 28 games and 2 years at the club, for GWS and what will be $200k more after tax, even though he'd been earning 100% more than what someone his age is probably worth if he stayed at Melbourne.

It's very bad PR for Melbourne imo. It's been a shocking 2011.

And it's simply NOT GOOD ENOUGH.

Won't sit around for 50 years waiting for a flag like the old man. And I'm sick of people making up excuses for this club.

I will, one Melbourne premiership is worth 10 of any club. I'll wait...You're right, this is some reflection on Melbourne. I don't think we've blown oout of the water by asking price alone.

  On 02/09/2011 at 06:37, Cudi_420 said:

I posted this on BigFooty. I expect most of you to disagree and have a go, but eh, I'm used to it on here. I'm just a realist at the end of the day:

I said recently that there wasn't much differential between $1 million and $600k...when you should only be earning $150-$200k anyway. I mean, people are saying, "would you knock back $1 million?", but they're forgetting he is also knocking back $600k, which on its own accord is already 100% higher than what he'd be getting had GWS not entered the picture.

If I was 20 and someone offered me what Scully has been offered, I'd think it would be, ummm, maybe disloyal, greedy to accept $1 million, because at the end of the day I'd be earning considerably more than what I'm worth anyway. It's not like he's choosing $1 million over $150k. The decision is not as hard as people are making it out to be.

To be honest, if he goes to GWS, it will be more indicative of the state of the club than it would be of Scully's personality. If Pies players are knocking back bigger offers, there shouldn't be a reason as to why a Demons player can't. But there is, and we all know how much of a joke Melbourne is off-field.

No one can escape that, including Melbourne supporters. He's gone, and when it's official, I'll be livid. Not with Scully, but with Melbourne. It's simply not good enough. I won't accept any excuses. How bad must the club be for a player to walk away from:

The MCG

Melbourne

His friends

His family

After only 28 games and 2 years at the club, for GWS and what will be $200k more after tax, even though he'd been earning 100% more than what someone his age is probably worth if he stayed at Melbourne.

It's very bad PR for Melbourne imo. It's been a shocking 2011.

And it's simply NOT GOOD ENOUGH.

Won't sit around for 50 years waiting for a flag like the old man. And I'm sick of people making up excuses for this club.

So much wrong here i dont know where to start

So I will give you this one - times everything you said by five as its a five year contract.

Secondly put the next multiplier on that GWS (as GC17) are heavily front loading their contracts - so are the MFC but obviously with the bigger amount on offer from GWS it is a bigger amount.

Is it an indictment on Geelong, Bulldogs, Adelaide, Port Adelaide, Hawthorn that their players up and left for GC17 ?

That someone leaves for bucket loads of money is purely a reflection on the player that he is motivated by lots of money.

Trengove on the other hand is not.

  On 02/09/2011 at 06:48, Range Rover said:

But I've already stated that I think Scully declared his hand to the club a good while ago. Therefore, the club knew a fair while back how much it was prepared to put on the table for Trenners. And Trenners management knew roughly how much extra there was in the kitty for their player.

From my standpoint, I am actually lauding Scully for doing the right thing by the club and notifying them of his intentions early on.

It's allowed us to sign Trengove (and a host of other young guns) early and make morale boosting announcements to that effect to the members.

An each-way bet? Still don't understand what you're getting at

*Adds - It's also benefited Trengove in the eyes of the Demon faithful by portraying him as a loyal, red-and-blue-bleeding fan of the footy club. That's great PR right there.

ok - I will concede that if you believe the club already knew then you are 100% right - they would have been allocating the Scully money elsewhere. Didnt realise you had added this gem into the picture as well

  On 02/09/2011 at 06:51, nutbean said:

So much wrong here i dont know where to start

So I will give you this one - times everything you said by five as its a five year contract.

Secondly put the next multiplier on that GWS (as GC17) are heavily front loading their contracts - so are the MFC but obviously with the bigger amount on offer from GWS it is a bigger amount.

Is it an indictment on Geelong, Bulldogs, Adelaide, Port Adelaide, Hawthorn that their players up and left for GC17 ?

That someone leaves for bucket loads of money is purely a reflection on the player that he is motivated by lots of money.

Trengove on the other hand is not.

A fair point, but players like Brown and Ablett have given a lot to their club, whereas we have gotten bugger all from Scully. We could have picked Martin who also is loyal and willing to turn down better coin for his club. Let's not get into the hindsight debate though. It is what it is, and it is not the end of the world.

  On 02/09/2011 at 06:53, nutbean said:

ok - I will concede that if you believe the club already knew then you are 100% right - they would have been allocating the Scully money elsewhere. Didnt realise you had added this gem into the picture as well

Nutbean that there gold nugget was staring at you right in the face!

  On 02/09/2011 at 06:57, Range Rover said:

Nutbean that there gold nugget was staring at you right in the face!

chose to believe, chose not to believe.

it will all be over soon.

BTW - you are welcome to join BB and myself for a glass of milk of magnesia ( for our ulcers) when this is all over ! cheers !

  On 02/09/2011 at 06:37, Cudi_420 said:

Won't sit around for 50 years waiting for a flag like the old man.

What's your threshold? Will you jump ship to another team or just stop supporting Melbourne?

  On 02/09/2011 at 06:56, Samsara said:

A fair point, but players like Brown and Ablett have given a lot to their club, whereas we have gotten bugger all from Scully. We could have picked Martin who also is loyal and willing to turn down better coin for his club. Let's not get into the hindsight debate though. It is what it is, and it is not the end of the world.

Yep - but my point is that this is not an indictment on the club - Ablett is a case in point. He pointedly gave other reasons for leaving but did not back away from saying that money was a large part of it. Thats how he ticks so be it.

An offer to good to refuse.

So it is indictment on the club that Scully's goes but how does that fit in with Trengove staying and extending early ?

  On 02/09/2011 at 05:22, La Dee-vina Commedia said:

No, we live in Demon-La-La-Land

Well I'm living in Demonland and I say he's staying!

(until proved otherwise)!

  On 02/09/2011 at 05:41, High Tower said:

If he's been ruled out through injury, why should he travel when they've got someone to replace him ? It's not necessary for him to travel if he has been ruled out of selection to play.

Well it's not as if he got anything better to do (well maybe he might:). Some players when injured make the journey interstate to watch the team play. My point was that it's only a short trip as opposed to travelling to Perth etc.

Trengove decision certainly makes an argument that the club is a great place to stay for young players, so your point is taken.

At the end of the day, we will never know the true motivation for Tom's decision (well, unlikely anyway). It is his decision though, and we must accept that. I have a feeling his bung knee might be playing a large part in his decision. If my knee was so suspect, it would be hard to turn down a long and well paying contract that guarantees financial security. He might only play 50 games for GWS before it gives way.

  On 02/09/2011 at 07:23, Samsara said:

Trengove decision certainly makes an argument that the club is a great place to stay for young players, so your point is taken.

At the end of the day, we will never know the true motivation for Tom's decision (well, unlikely anyway). It is his decision though, and we must accept that. I have a feeling his bung knee might be playing a large part in his decision. If my knee was so suspect, it would be hard to turn down a long and well paying contract that guarantees financial security. He might only play 50 games for GWS before it gives way.

None us know but what you said about his knee, again who knows - but in the land of 1001 theories - if the knee is so bad then your 1002nd theory makes sense.

  On 02/09/2011 at 06:37, Cudi_420 said:

I posted this on BigFooty. I expect most of you to disagree and have a go, but eh, I'm used to it on here. I'm just a realist at the end of the day:

I said recently that there wasn't much differential between $1 million and $600k...when you should only be earning $150-$200k anyway. I mean, people are saying, "would you knock back $1 million?", but they're forgetting he is also knocking back $600k, which on its own accord is already 100% higher than what he'd be getting had GWS not entered the picture.

If I was 20 and someone offered me what Scully has been offered, I'd think it would be, ummm, maybe disloyal, greedy to accept $1 million, because at the end of the day I'd be earning considerably more than what I'm worth anyway. It's not like he's choosing $1 million over $150k. The decision is not as hard as people are making it out to be.

To be honest, if he goes to GWS, it will be more indicative of the state of the club than it would be of Scully's personality. If Pies players are knocking back bigger offers, there shouldn't be a reason as to why a Demons player can't. But there is, and we all know how much of a joke Melbourne is off-field.

No one can escape that, including Melbourne supporters. He's gone, and when it's official, I'll be livid. Not with Scully, but with Melbourne. It's simply not good enough. I won't accept any excuses. How bad must the club be for a player to walk away from:

The MCG

Melbourne

His friends

His family

After only 28 games and 2 years at the club, for GWS and what will be $200k more after tax, even though he'd been earning 100% more than what someone his age is probably worth if he stayed at Melbourne.

It's very bad PR for Melbourne imo. It's been a shocking 2011.

And it's simply NOT GOOD ENOUGH.

Won't sit around for 50 years waiting for a flag like the old man. And I'm sick of people making up excuses for this club.

Fairly sad and pathetic post, I think.

Do you remember Essendon wallowing in self pity when Wanganeen went to Port?

Players leave clubs. Especially when truckloads of money is dangled infront of them.

It happens.

Accept it and we move forward.

If Scully goes, we deal with it and make the best out of the situation, then we move forward.

  On 02/09/2011 at 07:37, Gareth Keenan said:

Fairly sad and pathetic post, I think.

Do you remember Essendon wallowing in self pity when Wanganeen went to Port?

Players leave clubs. Especially when truckloads of money is dangled infront of them.

It happens.

Accept it and we move forward.

If Scully goes, we deal with it and make the best out of the situation, then we move forward.

I agree, what a sad pathetic post that was

it pains me to say that we've seen the last of scully in a melbourne jumper...there only appears to be one option for the kid now and that is to head to GWS

he has lost the faith of all dees supporters and his silence has been deafening

seeyoubye tom scully! thanks for nothing!