You have to laugh at some Melbourne supporters at times ... never let the facts get in the way of your arguments.

* Blame the coach ....

* Blame the players ...

* Blame the board ...

* Blame the CEO ...

* Blame the AFL ...

Yet they continually refuse to recognise why the gap is getting wider .... $$$$$$$$'s spent inside our football department.

Its 2011 look at the league, there is one common denominator to moving up the ladder ... $$$$$$ spent inside your football department.

Time to wake up guys ... these results will continue to happen until we address the real problem.

No longer is it good enough to buy a membership & say "I've done my job" those days are gone.

Edited July 31, 201114 yr by hangon007

You have to laugh at some Melbourne supporters at times ... never let the facts get in the way of your arguments.

* Blame the coach ....

* Blame the players ...

* Blame the board ...

* Blame the CEO ...

* Blame the AFL ...

Yet they continually refuse to recognise why the gap is getting wider .... $'s spent inside our football department.

Its 2011 look at the league, there is one common denominator to moving up the ladder ... $ spent inside your football department.

Time to wake up guys ... these results will continue to happen until we address the real problem.

No longer is it good enough to buy a membership & say "I've done my job" those days are gone.

But according to Schwab we have enough money to match Scully's $5 million offer from GW$

You're argument has merit but it doesn't excuse the inexcusable.

No amount of $$$ can substitute for genuine application and ticker.

Edited July 31, 201114 yr by Range Rover

You have to laugh at some Melbourne supporters at times ... never let the facts get in the way of your arguments.

* Blame the coach ....

* Blame the players ...

* Blame the board ...

* Blame the CEO ...

* Blame the AFL ...

Yet they continually refuse to recognise why the gap is getting wider .... $$$$$$$$'s spent inside our football department.

Its 2011 look at the league, there is one common denominator to moving up the ladder ... $$$$$$ spent inside your football department.

Time to wake up guys ... these results will continue to happen until we address the real problem.

No longer is it good enough to buy a membership & say "I've done my job" those days are gone.

So where are the facts? Are we paying Bailey enough? Or do we need new exercise bikes?

You have to laugh at some Melbourne supporters at times ... never let the facts get in the way of your arguments.

* Blame the coach ....

* Blame the players ...

* Blame the board ...

* Blame the CEO ...

* Blame the AFL ...

Yet they continually refuse to recognise why the gap is getting wider .... $$'s spent inside our football department.

Its 2011 look at the league, there is one common denominator to moving up the ladder ... $$ spent inside your football department.

Time to wake up guys ... these results will continue to happen until we address the real problem.

No longer is it good enough to buy a membership & say "I've done my job" those days are gone.

Ok, so no one is to blame it's just a matter of finding a few more $ to spend in the FD and the effort/intensity/grunt/output/passion/pride will miraculously improve throughout the playing group and we're on our winning way up the ladder!! Yahooooooooooo! Holy Lucifer you've done it, you have the answer there Hang!!

Albeit it would no doubt be very helpful, i don't see this this as the panacea for avoiding disasters such as yesterday.

So what you're also kind of saying then is that you think members should be happy and just lay down after what some would argue is the blackest day on the field (or very close to it), in our club's history?

You may have been playing with your banana a little too often i think. Might be a good time to come down outta the tree and look around a little. Nice try, but a little pre-historic in its simplicity

Edited July 31, 201114 yr by Rusty Nails

Ok, so no one is to blame it's just a matter of finding a few more $ to spend in the FD and the effort/intensity/grunt/output/passion/pride will miraculously improve throughout the playing group and we're on our winning way up the ladder!! Yahooooooooooo! Holy Lucifer you've done it, you have the answer there Hang!!

Albeit it would no doubt be very helpful, i don't see this this as the panacea for avoiding disasters such as yesterday.

So what you're also kind of saying then is that you think members should be happy and just lay down after what some would argue is the blackest day on the field (or very close to it), in our club's history?

You may have been playing with your banana a little too often i think. Might be a good time to come down outta the tree and look around a little. Nice try, but a little pre-historic in its simplicity

I get it now. The club is not spending enough on bananas.

I agree.

The club has failed at a fundamental level for 50 years.

That said, it is a coache's responsibility to instill fury, anger, passion and commitment. Urgency as well. They don't exist.

Oh, and North Melbourne says hello. Because they're been the pinnacle of a high-spending football department...

To think this club as 12 flags, plays at the MCG, is 150+ years old, it sickens me that we are where we are.

It's as if every single person that has ever been in control at the club has been a moron.

• It took the club 50 years to realise it didn't have a supporters stronghold. Still doesn't.
  
• Club has a shockingly placed "store" at the MCG -- who the hell goes there on a non-game day? Why isn't the store in the city. You know, our namesake city?
  
• Two of the biggest losses of all time.
  

I could go on and on.

But according to Schwab we have enough money to match Scully's $5 million offer from GW$

Dont get confused with Total Player Payment (TPP), Football department spend is over and above TPP payments. The point Schwab is making is we have room in our salary cap (TPP) to pay more ... dont forget you must pay a minimum of 92.5%. You want to & need to spend as close to 100% to become & stay competitive.

Our football department spend is one of the lowest in the league. You cant hide the facts the highest spending teams are all sitting at the top of the ladder in 2011. This football department spend is not capped.

You're argument has merit but it doesn't excuse the inexcusable.

No amount of $$$ can substitute for genuine application and ticker.

But dont get "application & ticker" confused with starting behind the 8ball before the game even starts.

Look how Geelong never sell homes games, look how they rotate their stars from week to week, look at the massive home ground advantage they have where a crowd of 30,000 ensures them a profit of close to $300,000+. These $$$$$$$ all flow back into their club with more coaches, more professional assistance to allow their players to reach peak performance.

Edited July 31, 201114 yr by hangon007

I agree.

The club has failed at a fundamental level for 50 years.

Yeah well as a supporter base we have failed to ensure our club has sufficient funds to play AFL football in 2011.

Oh, and North Melbourne says hello. Because they're been the pinnacle of a high-spending football department...

Funny you mention North ... they where one of the pioneers of huge football department spends & it won them premierships. I can tell you that for a fact ... We were part of their sponsorship group in the 80-90"s they were brilliant.

Ansett, Miller & Casey where no dills they were business men. But it was not sustainable and when they got passed by the bigger clubs they were gone.

Edited July 31, 201114 yr by hangon007

Ok, so no one is to blame it's just a matter of finding a few more $ to spend in the FD and the effort/intensity/grunt/output/passion/pride will miraculously improve throughout the playing group and we're on our winning way up the ladder!! Yahooooooooooo! Holy Lucifer you've done it, you have the answer there Hang!!

Albeit it would no doubt be very helpful, i don't see this this as the panacea for avoiding disasters such as yesterday.

So what you're also kind of saying then is that you think members should be happy and just lay down after what some would argue is the blackest day on the field (or very close to it), in our club's history?

You may have been playing with your banana a little too often i think. Might be a good time to come down outta the tree and look around a little. Nice try, but a little pre-historic in its simplicity

Although the passion show is quite interesting. At the end of the day we need to find answers. We are a football club living in the past that just cant come to grips with modern day AFL football.

If it was all passion the Tigers would probably win every year, but its not. Interesting to look at their football department spend ... its worse than us .... hence their position on the ladder.

Supporters trot out this "effort/intensity/grunt/output/passion/pride" it just rubbish & insulting to our football club.

Sorry ... Its all about recovery, coaching, skills, preparation, peak performance,drafting & trading, game plans which can only be delivered by $$$$$$$$ inside your football department.

Edited July 31, 201114 yr by hangon007

Hawthorn sell home games and they seem to be doing ok financially. Also geelong really only have 5 or so ' true' home games each year, last weeks game against the tigers at docklands was their home game.

I think too much emphasis is put on ' oh if we had x million more to spend on the fd all our troubles will be over'. Essendon have spent $5 million on their coaching staff this year for negligible improvement.

As I think it was a north melbourne official said a 15kg weight still weighs 15kg no matter where it is

I agree.

The club has failed at a fundamental level for 50 years.

That said, it is a coache's responsibility to instill fury, anger, passion and commitment. Urgency as well. They don't exist.

Oh, and North Melbourne says hello. Because they're been the pinnacle of a high-spending football department...

To think this club as 12 flags, plays at the MCG, is 150+ years old, it sickens me that we are where we are.

It's as if every single person that has ever been in control at the club has been a moron.

• It took the club 50 years to realise it didn't have a supporters stronghold. Still doesn't.
• Club has a shockingly placed "store" at the MCG -- who the hell goes there on a non-game day? Why isn't the store in the city. You know, our namesake city?
• Two of the biggest losses of all time.

I could go on and on.

IMO the problem has been @ the club through It's history,,,,,, Except for the time when the club brought in Checker Hughes from 'outside', who changed the culture of the Football team for a time, changing the guernsey I believe, and the name, to alter the 'culture' within the 'Footy Club'. This Culture was passed on & nurtured til the end of Smith/Barrassi...

Barassi rekindled the 'Spirit', when he came back, but it took it's toll on his reputation @ the house of the MCC.

The spirit lived on for a while after he finished, but was left to rot yet again.

The thing that is left is the core of the problem within the Lounges of the MCG. The very same attitude that tried to undermine Barassi after he returned and tried to make Melbourne an independent footy club.

Hawthorn sell home games and they seem to be doing ok financially. Also geelong really only have 5 or so ' true' home games each year, last weeks game against the tigers at docklands was their home game.

I think too much emphasis is put on ' oh if we had x million more to spend on the fd all our troubles will be over'. Essendon have spent $5 million on their coaching staff this year for negligible improvement.

As I think it was a north melbourne official said a 15kg weight still weighs 15kg no matter where it is

You dont have to put emphasis on it ... you only have to look at the ladder. That tells you it all.

Although the passion show is quite interesting. At the end of the day we need to find answers. We are a football club living in the past that just cant come to grips with modern day AFL football.

If it was all as passion the Tigers would probably win every year, but its not. Interesting to look at their football department spend ... its worse than us .... hence their position on the ladder.

Supporters trot out this "effort/intensity/grunt/output/passion/pride" it just rubbish & insulting to our football club.

Sorry ... Its all about recovery, coaching, skills, preparation, peak performance,drafting & trading, game plans which can only be delivered by $$$$ inside your football department.

I agree with you Hang. I was wrong all along.

We definitely need less passion/pride/grunt/intensity in this team. This has nothing to do with playing football at all. It's about time our club woke up to this also! Oh hang on (parden the pun lol), didn't we do so yesterday?

However, may i suggest you ask the club to go and recruit robots and program them accordingly so that their level of output on the field can match the level of input spent on the FD $$ wise? It should also be compared to the spends of all other clubs so that we can measure and match the level of output in order that the outcomes on game day, match appropriately with Club's spend on FD in comparison to all other clubs so that we end up finishing on the ladder at about the spot our FD spend would indicate using your theory?

By the way, the Coach, Skills Dept, List Managers, Fitness trainers, Assistant coaches etc....have no say in this. They must adhere to the comparison of dollars spent and make sure we finish in the same position on the ladder as we rank spend wise on the FD dept give or take one position maybe. In addition they will need to convey this decision to other FDs of other clubs (such as North) to make sure they also aim to finish in the appropriate relative position at year's end. No punching above or below your weight here thank you!

Although the quality of choice of robot may well be impeded by the maximum spend within the FD on the other factors you mentioned such as coaching/skills dept/preping/performance factors/drafting/list management. But this isn't a factor. It's the overall FD budget/spend you're looking at yes? So the final result at the end of the year should rank with the level of spend at each of the other clubs. Nothing more....nothing less.

This all makes sense to me now.

Thank you Hang

Although the quality of choice of robot may well be impeded by the maximum spend within the FD on the other factors you mentioned such as coaching/skills dept/preping/performance factors/drafting/list management. But this isn't a factor. It's the overall FD budget/spend you're looking at yes? So the final result at the end of the year should rank with the level of spend at each of the other clubs. Nothing more....nothing less.

This all makes sense to me now.

Thank you Hang

Finally you got it ... well your nearly there. The more you spend the more likely you are to allow your players to reach peak performance.

Collingwood, Geelong, Hawthorn, West Coast, Carlton & Essendon are spending $ 3-6 million more per year inside their football departments to improve their club .... spending more money to scream about "effort/intensity/grunt/output/passion/pride" is just rubbish ... different era.

Spend less than other clubs ... you have no chance of being competitive.

I agree.

The club has failed at a fundamental level for 50 years.

That said, it is a coache's responsibility to instill fury, anger, passion and commitment. Urgency as well. They don't exist.

Oh, and North Melbourne says hello. Because they're been the pinnacle of a high-spending football department...

To think this club as 12 flags, plays at the MCG, is 150+ years old, it sickens me that we are where we are.

It's as if every single person that has ever been in control at the club has been a moron.

• It took the club 50 years to realise it didn't have a supporters stronghold. Still doesn't.
• Club has a shockingly placed "store" at the MCG -- who the hell goes there on a non-game day? Why isn't the store in the city. You know, our namesake city?
• Two of the biggest losses of all time.

I could go on and on.

Your point here, really gives me the sh!tes....Why would you have a shop there, it is actually a delivery area for the ground!!! Where does one park???

Put the DEMON Shop in the Melbourne Town Hall Precinct. I have never been to the Demon Shop, it's to hard to get to in a cab.

IMO the problem has been @ the club through It's history,,,,,, Except for the time when the club brought in Checker Hughes from 'outside', who changed the culture of the Football team for a time, changing the guernsey I believe, and the name, to alter the 'culture' within the 'Footy Club'. This Culture was passed on & nurtured til the end of Smith/Barrassi...

Barassi rekindled the 'Spirit', when he came back, but it took it's toll on his reputation @ the house of the MCC.

The spirit lived on for a while after he finished, but was left to rot yet again.

The thing that is left is the core of the problem within the Lounges of the MCG. The very same attitude that tried to undermine Barassi after he returned and tried to make Melbourne an independent footy club.

Rubbish...far to simple DL, don't blame the ground-it goes deeper than that.

I get it now. The club is not spending enough on bananas.

Lol de cali. Maybe the club isn't selling enough bananas yet!

Don't worry....Hang will show us the way to the promised land! Hec, this just might be the start of the rise of the planet of the apes.

As long as he don't take over the planet. I'm sure Hang could also recruit recruits some fellow apes to the club to add some, dare i say it Hang, much needed grunt to our list. Provided the Demons win a flag as a result....i'll be more than happy. Go Hang!!!

Maybe we should rename ourselves the Melbourne Bananas!

Club sure is good at driving us bananas that's for sure

Lol de cali. Maybe the club isn't selling enough bananas yet!

Don't worry....Hang will show us the way to the promised land! Hec, this just might be the start of the rise of the planet of the apes.

As long as he don't take over the planet. I'm sure Hang could also recruit recruits some fellow apes to the club to add some, dare i say it Hang, much needed grunt to our list. Provided the Demons win a flag as a result....i'll be more than happy. Go Hang!!!

Maybe we should rename ourselves the Melbourne Bananas!

Club sure is good at driving us bananas that's for sure

Yip a bunch of bananas many around here are ... definitely should consider moving to Queensland and calling ourselves the Queensland bananas ... because thats whats staring us in the face. B)

But you just scream about ... "effort/intensity/grunt/output/passion/pride" hahahahahaha .... its just not what the good clubs do. Nope they invest money into their football department.

Rubbish...far to simple DL, don't blame the ground-it goes deeper than that.

It's not the ground at all. That is not what i said. I said the club has always had a losing attitude within it's people, the MCC & the MFC. Since day dot.

Checker, Caldwell and Smith only changed that losing mentality briefly...

It's not the ground at all. That is not what i said. I said the club has always had a losing attitude within it's people, the MCC & the MFC. Since day dot.

Checker, Caldwell and Smith only changed that losing mentality briefly...

Between 1900 and '64 we did pretty well...2 threepeats and a 5 in 7 years....but you always get stuck in to the MCC leather chairs DL.....why??

To some extent I agree with OP- you pay peanuts and get monkeys. Name me one other club where Josh Mahoney would get a job as the forwards coach. On the other hand, pumping dollars into the FD isn't going to make these guys play with pride and passion- if they lack that, then the problem we find ourselves in is terminal.

Between 1900 and '64 we did pretty well...2 threepeats and a 5 in 7 years....but you always get stuck in to the MCC leather chairs DL.....why??

Oh, why did checker change the name & jumper we he was brought in to get things going? Hmmn? They were soft before checker.

Between 1900 and '64 we did pretty well...2 threepeats and a 5 in 7 years....

Diffrent era ... but many would say we spent MCC money.

pumping dollars into the FD isn't going to make these guys play with pride and passion- if they lack that, then the problem we find ourselves in is terminal.

Why does it work at Collingwood, Geelong, Carlton. West Coast, Hawthorn ...???

Because it got nothing to do with "passion & pride" ... put the horse before the cart.

First, you need to find the money to invest in your football department, start to get the best people all round .... then the 1%'s will come.

Between 1900 and '64 we did pretty well...2 threepeats and a 5 in 7 years....but you always get stuck in to the MCC leather chairs DL.....why??

It's like the boxert who's had his world titles and then goes off the boil after he thinks he's made it. He loses the drive, the fire in the belly.

That is what I believe happens to players who come into the MFC. Somehow they think they've made it for doing nothing but getting told how good they are & backslapped.

In fact I've heard people put down Dees players if they've been too rough. There's your bruise free!

We seem to make them into gentlemen, and not fierce competitors. It stopped through Barassi, but it took him years to get the bad attitude out and the self belief in after losing for 15 or 16 years.

That fire burned for about 10 years or so. Before not being tendered to, & dying down.