1 minute ago, Dappa Dan said:

Or aiming to maintain some dignity as he's kicked out of NYC.

Yeah. NFL is a three year rebuild league. No reason to take the MFC approach to list building. The trouble with that logic is that these other sides who are close, and some that are miles away like the Browns certainly COULD benefit and "win now." But if they could, why can't Giants? I always thought why not do the Favre>Rodgers thing of letting your first round pick QB settle in for a couple of years behind the beloved veteran. In fact I always assumed that's exactly what they'd do next year. Surely Geno Smith is a known quantity...

The Giants are not making sound decisions and it's been that way for quite some time - their GM is probably going to be dispensed with as well. 

Stats can sometimes be misleading because we don't have a 'big-moment' stat or a crucial-moment' stat or even a gets-it-done-when-it-counts' stat.  They are just numbers that often don't tell the whole story. 

Most would probably believe that Eli's numbers would have been better in his 2 SB winning years but they aren't ... he's had better regular season numbers in a number of years when the Giants didn't make the playoffs.  Eli Manning Stats

The argument can be put forward that the parts of the Giants game that fell away were not necessarily related to Eli's output.  He's always been an easy target.

4 minutes ago, Macca said:

The Giants are not making sound decisions and it's been that way for quite some time - their GM is probably going to be dispensed with as well. 

Stats can sometimes be misleading because we don't have a 'big-moment' stat or a crucial-moment' stat or even a gets-it-done-when-it-counts' stat.  They are just numbers that often don't tell the whole story. 

Most would probably believe that Eli's numbers would have been better in his 2 SB winning years but they aren't ... he's had better regular season numbers in a number of years when the Giants didn't make the playoffs.  Eli Manning Stats

The argument can be put forward that the parts of the Giants game that fell away were not necessarily related to Eli's output.  He's always been an easy target.

And of course there's the Peyton comparison.

Gee whiz, next year is going to be crazy in the NFC. Rodgers back = Packers 10 wins at least. Cowboys with Zeke and their O line in one piece, plus some good selections. Vikings with Bradford or Keenum. Seattle with less injuries and their D back. Rams are now as sexy as any team in the league. Sainst suddenly serious again, and have Kamara. Lions always thereabouts. So much red meat.

49ers

Rams

Cheifs 

Here are the games again ...

10 hours ago, Dappa Dan said:

And of course there's the Peyton comparison.

Everyone is different

Edited November 29, 20177 yr by Macca

1 hour ago, Macca said:

Everyone is different

Yeah. Just saying he cops it pretty harshly. I reckon more than half the conversations anyone ever had about how good Eli is had the Peyton comparison. Brutal. We don't get too much of that in the AFL. Probably just the Abletts, and even then, noone really cares.

Pats Rams Steelers

Mcadoo reminds me of Fisher...

I've never been a big fan of Eli as he was/is too hot and cold for me. But his good games are up with the best.  Bad are up there with the worst

Pats

Rams

Steelers

2 hours ago, Dappa Dan said:

Yeah. Just saying he cops it pretty harshly. I reckon more than half the conversations anyone ever had about how good Eli is had the Peyton comparison. Brutal. We don't get too much of that in the AFL. Probably just the Abletts, and even then, noone really cares.

Yeah ... those sorts of comparisons are often made but they've never made any sense to me.

Eli never seems to go cold in the playoffs though ... he's beaten Favre,  Rodgers & Belichick & Brady twice in 2 SB runs.

And I don't reckon he's any better or worse than he's always been. 

I've always been a fan of big occasion players ... they're a rung down from the greats but they still win big.

18 minutes ago, Macca said:

Eli never seems to go cold in the playoffs though ... he's beaten Favre,  Rodgers & Belichick & Brady twice in 2 SB runs.

And I don't reckon he's any better or worse than he's always been. 

I've always been a fan of big occasion players ... they're a rung down from the greats but they still win big.

Yeah I've got a lot of time for him. I can understand the Peyton-Eli thing. They're related, one is regarded as the better player, both have 2 rings... scuttlebutt can be fun.

24 minutes ago, Macca said:

I've always been a fan of big occasion players ... they're a rung down from the greats but they still win big.

One of the big things about the NFL that's great is the whole "big time player" and "clutch" thing, particularly with QBs. Guys can play for years and be good. Even MVPs like Ryan... but when the big moments come, that seems to define them. That's what has me interested in this current crop. Mariotta, Luck, Winston, Dak, Wentz, Goff, Wilson and a number of others... They can put together really good stats, and noone cares if you don't have the ability to find the play on the one play it's needed. Games seem to be close SO often. And playoffs are so fiercely contested. I reckon most of those guys haven't seen a really, really important one off play that's career defining. Wilson in his superbowls has them. Luck in his big time playoff comeback. The others haven't even started their "clutch" careers yet. These playoffs are gonna be unreal for that.

1 hour ago, Dappa Dan said:

Yeah I've got a lot of time for him. I can understand the Peyton-Eli thing. They're related, one is regarded as the better player, both have 2 rings... scuttlebutt can be fun.

Eli being dropped effectively ends his career at the Giants ... unless it doesn't.  I tend to think he's played his last minutes though.

Patriots

Steelers

Panthers

Pats

Steelers

And I can't believe I'm going to jinx us but...

Rams

Pats Rams Steelers

On 30/11/2017 at 3:24 PM, Macca said:

Eli being dropped effectively ends his career at the Giants ... unless it doesn't.  I tend to think he's played his last minutes though.

Yeah. The more I think about it the more I think having gone through the pain, why would they go back. Especially seeing as there's a couple of highly touted QBs in the draft. I was reading today though about the Broncos possibly being talked into another Manning going there by Peyton. I sort of hope that happens.

Is it possible to edit picks at this late stage, Macca? If so , Pats, Rams and Vikes.

3 minutes ago, Dappa Dan said:

Yeah. The more I think about it the more I think having gone through the pain, why would they go back. Especially seeing as there's a couple of highly touted QBs in the draft. I was reading today though about the Broncos possibly being talked into another Manning going there by Peyton. I sort of hope that happens.

It won't be the Giants choice with Eli - they're imploding.   McAdoo & Reese are now in the firing line and the heat will be intense.

Eli calls the shots from here on in - I'd say he's probably had any number of offers and would be weighing those offers up.  The Giants have now made their bed and they now have to lie in it.  From my point of view,  Eli was their only real strong point.  Their roster is way below average and their coaching is poor.

The only pundits who seem to be supporting the decision to dump Eli are journo's who have never played top level sport or those who have an adoration for authority - i.e. nobody's who can't think for themselves.

This whole episode reinforces my belief that many who are in positions of responsibility are completely clueless.  My pet hate in sport are stupid decisions made by incompetent individuals who have too much power.

20 minutes ago, Dappa Dan said:

Is it possible to edit picks at this late stage, Macca? If so , Pats, Rams and Vikes.

I'd prefer if people didn't because picks can be done after viewing the picks from other posters ... and where does it all end?

Your original tips will have to stand Dappa ... otherwise the whole thing becomes a total farce. 

The leader of the comp holds an advantage and can tip late but they've earned that right.  Those behind the leader can tip in a creative way to try and even the score.

1 minute ago, Macca said:

It won't be the Giants choice with Eli - they're imploding.   McAdoo & Reese are now in the firing line and the heat will be intense.

Eli calls the shots from here on in - I'd say he's probably had any number of offers and would be weighing those offers up.  The Giants have now made their bed and they now have to lie in it.  From my point of view,  Eli was their only real strong point.  Their roster is way below average and their coaching is poor.

The only pundits who seem to be supporting the decision to dump Eli are journo's who have never played top level sport or those who have an adoration for authority - i.e. nobody's who can't think for themselves.

This whole episode reinforces my belief that many who are in positions of responsibility are completely clueless.  My pet hate in sport are stupid decisions made by incompetent individuals who have too much power.

Eli the only string point? OBJ says hi. I reckon Giants have got some good pieces still. Most teams do. JPP, Jenkins, Shepherd is ok, Engram looks like a good player... Less than 12 months ago they were in the playoffs.

I think you're right though. It seems the top end of town that seems to be the problem. They've got a culture issue there, and if McAdoo and Reese both vanish, and they hold onto their big names.... why couldn't they do a McVay/Pedersen? Personally, I don't hate their list. It needs work... but no more or less than the Eagles list did 12 months ago. 

3 minutes ago, Dappa Dan said:

Eli the only strong point? OBJ says hi.

He is currently not playing and is of no value (right now)

Their roster is way below par, all things considered (compared to the better teams)

Can you see them winning another game this season with Geno Smith and an under prepared rookie as their QB?

And it is all about winning games.  They haven't dumped Eli for tanking purposes

Edited December 3, 20177 yr by Macca

7 minutes ago, Dappa Dan said:

Personally, I don't hate their list. It needs work... but no more or less than the Eagles list did 12 months ago. 

But you've now got Wentz ... without him you'd be average or perhaps below average.  The QB position would have to be the most important position in any team sport.  

What have the Giants got under centre?  Geno Smith and who knows who else? Drafting a QB is hit & miss.  Often missing.  I put Eli in the Flacco mould - not great but why make the change when the alternative has a good chance of being far worse.

Their draft is like our's - a glorified lucky dip.  Eli needs good players around him - he's not Brady or Rodgers.  So,  give the bloke some good players and you'll win Super Bowls ... oh hang on ...

Just now, Macca said:

He is currently not playing and is of no value (right now)

Their roster is garbage, all things considered (compared to the better teams)

Obviously he's not playing. But the question of who's most valuable to Giants won't be in regards to the next 5 weeks. For obvious reason they're looking at 2018 and onwards... And if that's true, OBJ is by far and away the biggest piece of that puzzle, and will be the highest paid player at the club easily. It's not like they have 0 talent on their list. I really like the idea of a Rosen or Jackson coming in and having OBJ to throw to. Look at Wentz. In his first year he had nothing to target, give him Jefferey and suddenly he's exploded. If you watch OBJ closely, he makes the QB better. Giants actually looked dangerous in the few games he played this year.

And yeah. It is garbage. But again... so was Eagles. I reckon in the NFL (as opposed to the AFL) you're only one or two off seasons away from a serious list, as long as you work the trades and free agency right. At the Eagles, Roseman got the reigns back of what was largely viewed to be a garbage list.... Yes, they got lucky in that more or less every move turned out to be a winner... But the point is the so-so core group look super once you put good pieces around them. I think Giants main 6 guys are good enough to have them back in the NFC East race within a couple of seasons. No doubt. That said, it allllllll hangs on the QB, and how much protection you can get him. Who do they take, and will they be a bust.