So you want to go back to 1 interchange player???

leave the interchange and fix the `in the back` when tackling ,and the` hands in the back` for marking contests. umpires judge each case on its merrits

All this discussion of who to delist should be moderated by a discussion of when to trade and when to draft.

Trade is you can get something you need that won't be available in the draft. Or to improve your draft picks. Or if Carlton want to give us pick 11 again. Draft for young blood to develop into future players. Rookie opportunistically, or even speculatively.

We need something to protect us from Jamar going lame. Gawn, Spencer and Fitzpatrick may be ready for this role by 2013 (just maybe 2012 in the case of Spencer) but they are not ready yet. We can either keep PJ in this role, or get a mature bodied ruckman to replace him. This person can be one of the several 3rd/4th in line ruckmen rumoured to be on offer, but must have real AFL experience. But if we trade, don't use our first draft pick and be very reluctant to use our second. Good players are available in even a rorted draft at 12 and 30. We might even find a suitable candidate in the rookie draft. I'm thinking Orren Stephenson, but there may be others. Wouldn't matter that he would be on the rookie list as he is only really required if Jamar goes down. Only trouble with waiting for the rookie draft is that we have to make the call on PJ before we know what we can get.

My strategy is to Delist PJ upfront, look to trade, if no trade look to Rookie, if no rookie take a very deep breath and rely on Spencer/Gawn/Fitzpatrick/Martin (nervous breakdowns all round).

Delisting PJ makes the space we require for the back up ruck, and maybe another if we trade.

We should use two draft picks minimum, but only on player types we don't have already. We have lots of mids, lots of small/meduium forwards, and lots of defenders, albeit with some questions about delivery by foot. So tall forwards and defenders with extra special delivery skills look like the draft targets.

Our forward structure is at the monent dependant on Watts and Fitzpatrick maturing into class tall forwards. No one else seems in the running. Jurrah is a great 3rd forward, Dunn is more middle sized HFF with great defensive skills. Bate, Martin, miller and Newton have falled by the wayside for this role. I don't think we can trade successfully for this type of player without offering pick 12, so it will have to be draft and hope, osing pick 30, and maybe rookie another prospect.

But if we can get a backup ruckman by whatever means, a high skills defender with pick 12 and a tall forward prospect with pick 30, plus promoting Spencer and McKenzie, we will have moved our list forward. This will have cost us Junior, Miller, Bell, PJ and one other (maybe Warnock) as a trade for a ruck backup. Maybe not even Warnock if we get the backup in the rookie draft.

All this discussion of who to delist should be moderated by a discussion of when to trade and when to draft.

Trade is you can get something you need that won't be available in the draft. Or to improve your draft picks. Or if Carlton want to give us pick 11 again. Draft for young blood to develop into future players. Rookie opportunistically, or even speculatively.

We need something to protect us from Jamar going lame. Gawn, Spencer and Fitzpatrick may be ready for this role by 2013 (just maybe 2012 in the case of Spencer) but they are not ready yet. We can either keep PJ in this role, or get a mature bodied ruckman to replace him. This person can be one of the several 3rd/4th in line ruckmen rumoured to be on offer, but must have real AFL experience. But if we trade, don't use our first draft pick and be very reluctant to use our second. Good players are available in even a rorted draft at 12 and 30. We might even find a suitable candidate in the rookie draft. I'm thinking Orren Stephenson, but there may be others. Wouldn't matter that he would be on the rookie list as he is only really required if Jamar goes down. Only trouble with waiting for the rookie draft is that we have to make the call on PJ before we know what we can get.

My strategy is to Delist PJ upfront, look to trade, if no trade look to Rookie, if no rookie take a very deep breath and rely on Spencer/Gawn/Fitzpatrick/Martin (nervous breakdowns all round).

Delisting PJ makes the space we require for the back up ruck, and maybe another if we trade.

We should use two draft picks minimum, but only on player types we don't have already. We have lots of mids, lots of small/meduium forwards, and lots of defenders, albeit with some questions about delivery by foot. So tall forwards and defenders with extra special delivery skills look like the draft targets.

Our forward structure is at the monent dependant on Watts and Fitzpatrick maturing into class tall forwards. No one else seems in the running. Jurrah is a great 3rd forward, Dunn is more middle sized HFF with great defensive skills. Bate, Martin, miller and Newton have falled by the wayside for this role. I don't think we can trade successfully for this type of player without offering pick 12, so it will have to be draft and hope, osing pick 30, and maybe rookie another prospect.

But if we can get a backup ruckman by whatever means, a high skills defender with pick 12 and a tall forward prospect with pick 30, plus promoting Spencer and McKenzie, we will have moved our list forward. This will have cost us Junior, Miller, Bell, PJ and one other (maybe Warnock) as a trade for a ruck backup. Maybe not even Warnock if we get the backup in the rookie draft.

How are we going to get a 'mature-bodied ruckman' in the draft or rookie draft??? Surely the definition of this kind of player is someone who's been in the AFL system for a number of years. Precisely the deficiency our current back-ups are faced with.

How are we going to get a 'mature-bodied ruckman' in the draft or rookie draft??? Surely the definition of this kind of player is someone who's been in the AFL system for a number of years. Precisely the deficiency our current back-ups are faced with.

Because they are playing at the next level down.

We've got two different ruck needs:

1. Backup #1 ruck for Jamar

If Jamar gets injured, as Golf says, we don't have a ready-made #1 ruck replacement. We could retain PJ as insurance but he has had plenty of opportunituy to show his wares and hasn't delivered. We have Spencer but he's young and he has been injury prone so we can't depend on him. Without at least a competitive #1 ruckman we'll lose midfield structure and it will be hard to develop the team. Golf's suggestion of delisting PJ and rookie-ing a state-league mature aged ruckman makes good sense. It frees a spot on the primary list and we'll only need the insurance if Jamar and Spencer can't ruck - hopefully Jamar will play all 24 games. There is a risk there'll be no-one suitable available to rookie as Golf points out.

2. Fwd-Ruck relief

With the interchange rule changes we wont be able to go with 2 traditional tap ruckmen, i.e. Jamar and Spencer together is too top heavy. We'll need someone to relieve the #1 ruckman for 20-40 mins a game and play a useful role the rest of the time - someone who could ruck full-time if Jamar gets injured mid-match. Bailey has stated that he'd like a long forward target - the combo we need is long forward taget with genuine rucking capability. PJ is useless in the forward line, Fitzpatrick or Gawn may fulfill this need but they're some development away. We could draft an U18 but they'd be even further away - not to say this isn't a good idea but it won't solve the problem for 2011-2. To trade for a player capable of fulfilling this role we'd need to give good players and/or picks. We may be able to draft a mature age player not in AFL but again if they're any good we'll need to use an early pick.

Bailey has stated that he'd like a long forward target - the combo we need is long forward taget with genuine rucking capability. PJ is useless in the forward line, Fitzpatrick or Gawn may fulfill this need but they're some development away. We could draft an U18 but they'd be even further away - not to say this isn't a good idea but it won't solve the problem for 2011-2. To trade for a player capable of fulfilling this role we'd need to give good players and/or picks. We may be able to draft a mature age player not in AFL but again if they're any good we'll need to use an early pick.

We'll see how they go during trade week...

Worth noting at this point that our only remaining uncontracted players who nothing has been announced about are:

Bruce

McNamara

Johnson

+ rookies

Unless we trade out any players who are currently under contract it would appear that we are going to have no more than 3 picks in the National Draft this year going on the below assumptions (provided we don't trade any picks):

Out:

J McDonald

B Miller

P Johnson

D Bell

T McNamara

In:

J McKenzie

J Spencer

Rnd 1 Pick

Rnd 2 Pick

Rnd 3 Pick

Further, if Cam Bruce were to leave to GC or via the draft we would not be able to make an extra National Draft selection, we would, however, be able to make a permanent rookie upgrade from the start of the season to fill the empty spot in our Veteran's List.

Worth noting at this point that our only remaining uncontracted players who nothing has been announced about are:

Bruce

McNamara

Johnson

+ rookies

Unless we trade out any players who are currently under contract it would appear that we are going to have no more than 3 picks in the National Draft this year going on the below assumptions (provided we don't trade any picks):

Out:

J McDonald

B Miller

P Johnson

D Bell

T McNamara

In:

J McKenzie

J Spencer

Rnd 1 Pick

Rnd 2 Pick

Rnd 3 Pick

Further, if Cam Bruce were to leave to GC or via the draft we would not be able to make an extra National Draft selection, we would, however, be able to make a permanent rookie upgrade from the start of the season to fill the empty spot in our Veteran's List.

Please advise Cheney status- I thought he was also uncontracted.

If we bring in a ruckman (Hale) for a draft pick, PJ will not get signed.

Other than that, I'd expect McNamara and Bruce to resign and we'll use 1st, 3rd and 4th round picks (if 2nd round is traded, as I think is likely).

Hale and pick 17 to the Demons

Pick 12 and 32 to the Kangaroos

Hale and pick 17 to the Demons

Pick 12 and 32 to the Kangaroos

No, No and then No again. Hale and pick 12, regardless of other offerings, don't mix.

No, No and then No again. Hale and pick 12, regardless of other offerings, don't mix.

so we gain Hale for pick 32 - Thats Fair!!!

and we lose 5 spots with our first pick! (from 12 to 17)

Hale will give both Jamar and our young lean forward line a chop out!

was pick 7 in 2001 Draft is stil only 26 and kicks goals

i like the deal and we need him whilst we wait until watts, jurrah, fitzpatrick, gawn put on size

good deal for us

and it is going to happen!!!!

Pick 12 goes nowhere except earlier. Period.

Hale is worth our second round at best although i'd prefer a straight swap for Maric and maybe a late pick.

I dont think I am explaining it well

let me take you through it one step at a time

The Demons have Pick 12

The Roos have Pick 17

We are swapping them... so now

The Demons have pick 17

The Roos have pick 12

We then give the Roos pick 32

and they give us Hale

so our first pick is now 17 and not 12 and we get Hale

make sense???

I was reasonably happy with Hale as a relatively cheap experimental pickup

But decidedly uncomfortable with what is proposed.

Assuming, that what is proposed has any truth to it

If true, I hope the FD has a plan B (for tall fwd/relief ruck) that we have all missed

I dont think I am explaining it well

let me take you through it one step at a time

The Demons have Pick 12

The Roos have Pick 17

We are swapping them... so now

The Demons have pick 17

The Roos have pick 12

We then give the Roos pick 32

and they give us Hale

so our first pick is now 17 and not 12 and we get Hale

make sense???

Bails, WHO are you talking to??

We all get that, why are you so painfully repeating it?

Plus you haven't even explained who pays his existing high contract price.

Bails, WHO are you talking to??

We all get that, why are you so painfully repeating it?

Plus you haven't even explained who pays his existing high contract price.

sorry thought it was misunderstood.

hopefully they pay sum

I was reasonably happy with Hale as a relatively cheap experimental pickup

But decidedly uncomfortable with what is proposed.

Assuming, that what is proposed has any truth to it

If true, I hope the FD has a plan B (for tall fwd/relief ruck) that we have all missed

Decidedly uncomfortable I can understand- this is just downright lunacy if we go down this track. Better off gaining the Irishman from Carlton for pick 5.

sorry thought it was misunderstood.

hopefully they pay sum

Anyway, this would be better on the "David Hale" thread

Decidedly uncomfortable I can understand- this is just downright lunacy if we go down this track. Better off gaining the Irishman from Carlton for pick 5.

What about that Port Melbourne player JCB - can't remember his name, was discussed recently?

Is he too raw?

excuse my lateness, ive been on nightshift. when did this scenario get thrown up by the footy dept?

you will hear more about it today

Please advise Cheney status- I thought he was also uncontracted.

Cheney has another year on his contract.

Source: Horse's Mouth

If we bring in a ruckman (Hale) for a draft pick, PJ will not get signed.

Other than that, I'd expect McNamara and Bruce to resign and we'll use 1st, 3rd and 4th round picks (if 2nd round is traded, as I think is likely).

You're forgetting about promoting McKenzie & Spencer to the senior list. This effectively cancels out the delistings of Miller & Bell. As of right now, we have 1 pick in the draft courtesy of Junior's retirement. If we delist Johnson and bring in Hale then we still only have 1 pick in the draft. I highly doubt we're going to retain Tom McNamara rather than take a 2nd pick in the draft, probably in Round 3 if we trade our Rnd 2 pick for Hale.

Summary:

OUT

Miller

Bell

McDonald

Johnson

McNamara

IN

Pick 1

Pick 2

Hale

McKenzie

Spencer

Cheney has another year on his contract.

Source: Horse's Mouth

You're forgetting about promoting McKenzie & Spencer to the senior list. This effectively cancels out the delistings of Miller & Bell. As of right now, we have 1 pick in the draft courtesy of Junior's retirement. If we delist Johnson and bring in Hale then we still only have 1 pick in the draft. I highly doubt we're going to retain Tom McNamara rather than take a 2nd pick in the draft, probably in Round 3 if we trade our Rnd 2 pick for Hale.

Summary:

OUT

Miller

Bell

McDonald

Johnson

McNamara

IN

Pick 1

Pick 2

Hale

McKenzie

Spencer

depends on bruce too, otherwise agree

edit: and Warnock is still a wildcard

What about that Port Melbourne player JCB - can't remember his name, was discussed recently?

Is he too raw?

Name: Callum Sinclair

D.O.B.: 23 Sep 1989

Height (cm): 200

Weight (cm): 95

Athletic Tall who plays Forward for Port Melbourne. Have not see a lot of him just when he was at the Pies VFL Team last season. Did not play any proper VFL Games but Played in Practice Games and I really liked the look of him. Quick and Good Leap.

Reckon he could get Drafted.Raw, very talented could fill the requirement.

Name: Callum Sinclair

D.O.B.: 23 Sep 1989

Height (cm): 200

Weight (cm): 95

Athletic Tall who plays Forward for Port Melbourne. Have not see a lot of him just when he was at the Pies VFL Team last season. Did not play any proper VFL Games but Played in Practice Games and I really liked the look of him. Quick and Good Leap.

Reckon he could get Drafted.Raw, very talented could fill the requirement.

We're said to be very keen on him.