Watts v NikNat

[big tuna 0]

I am convinced Watts will be a great forward for many, many years based on what he has shown already.

He has great hands and is a one touch player below his knees which is very unusual for his size. Slick by hand with smart little gives under pressure. Great field kicking because he doesn't try to drill the pass, he just places it out in front or into space for his team mate. Nice agility and shows plenty of smarts which he has shown at times stealing or intercepting the ball. Great set shot for goal which is why people expected him to kick that last goal against Freo.

He has flaws obviously but nothing that can't be improved... needs to take more overhead marks/stronger in the air... improve defensive efforts/2nd efforts/tackling... improve kicking goals on the run tends to spray them a bit. All of these things will improve with better strength and fitness and more experience.

Nik Nat burst on to the scene earlier than Watts and has a good highlights reel. But I think he would have hurt Jamar's development over the last 1.5 seasons , plus another midfield rotation player who has been playing all this time instead of a 2nd ruckman.

Edited July 23, 2010 by big tuna

[Jarka 767]

I must have misunderstood but when you said you wanted him to be a rung higher than Neitz and Lyon, praised his skills and then commented on his lack of physicality I just assumed you thought that was the element that was missing.

Anyway there have been lots of good CHF or KPF without physicality. Hart, Hird and Reiwoldt come to mind.

I'm glad you're not worried but for someone who isn't you sure sound it.

I think the 'physicality' issue has been confused somewhat. Hird is not a physical player in the sense of damaging other players, but he was inspirational with putting his body on the line is crucial plays and this is what I believe H is referring to. H, correct me if I'm wrong.

There has been a query over Watts with this but I think he's recently shown this is to incorrect

Edited July 23, 2010 by Jarka

[Grandson of a gun 276]

If it's line ball i would go the the type you need but IMO if a mid was the best available, i would pick a mid all day long.

As the situation you put 'let's say Geelong scenerio', you've got a bunch of great six footers, great midfield, not great KPP and draft day comes along, another great mid pops up, i'd draft him.

I'll make the hard call, keep Gablett and trade a Bartel, Corey or even a Selwood for a gun KPP knowing another mid is coming.

That's assuming

a- there is a gun KPP available and

b- they want to play for you. Plus

c- trading out players like they are meat in a premiership window is a dangerous past time and can tear the club and playing group into pieces. (See Campbell Brown). bet Geelong would agree there, getting rid of Bartel & Selwood would tear that place apart.

I understand where you are coming from, however i still believe that you cannot just ignore the clubs needs.

That's assuming the mids are of the same quality as the KPPs.

If it's on level terms, then you take the need.

But as Jacey says, it still comes down to best available.

I think we've seen this with the 2009 & 2010 drafts to an extent.

The mids we took at pick 11 and especially pick 18 were of similar quality to the KPPs available, but taking the long term view and our recruiters being aware of the KPP riches on the 2010 draft, we went for the mids.

If we don't take a tall with our first pick in this coming draft, I'll be shocked unless there is an outstanding mid that has inexplicably slipped in the order.

I assume you mean with the 08 and 09 drafts as we haven't yet had a 2010 draft. I disagree though. I still believe they drafted what they needed to help fill holes in the list.

Your final sentence though is a contradiction to your theory of best available as there is every liklihood that by our first selection there is likely to be a higher ranked midfielder than tall available. You suggest we NEED to draft that tall but by your theory we won't because the mid is rated better, yet you'll be surprised???

That is the flaw.

We need a tall. We should draft a tall. If they don't they are mad.

Will just agree to disagree.

Edited July 23, 2010 by Grandson of a gun

[hoopla 418]

Lazy journalism. "here's my short opinion. What do you think?" Yawn...

I've read much better on the same topic on bigfooty forums.

Couldn't have said it better myself............... very lazy journalism. Ando must have been too hung over to come up with anything worthwhile. It is a pointless argument anyway ...

[Hannabal 4]

I think the 'physicality' issue has been confused somewhat. Hird is not a physical player in the sense of damaging other players, but he was inspirational with putting his body on the line is crucial plays and this is what I believe H is referring to. H, correct me if I'm wrong.

There has been a query over Watts with this but I think he's recently shown this is to incorrect

Correct. Watts doesn't lack courage, but he hasn't learnt when it's imperative to make body contact. Being the smart footballer that he is he'll usually avoid it, but there are times when it's imperative. It's just not a natural part of his game. Some players, like Brereton, loved the contact from the outset. That said, he was washed up at 26.

I've always thought that Watts will be a star on the proviso that he develops the physical side of his game. There are no guarantees that he'll develop it to the level required to be a great of the game.

[Jaded No More 68,867]

You can teach a player to go harder at the contest (Brad Green is probably the best example), but you can't teach a player the sort of skills that Watts has.

[e25 5]

I assume you mean with the 08 and 09 drafts as we haven't yet had a 2010 draft. I disagree though. I still believe they drafted what they needed to help fill holes in the list.

Your final sentence though is a contradiction to your theory of best available as there is every liklihood that by our first selection there is likely to be a higher ranked midfielder than tall available. You suggest we NEED to draft that tall but by your theory we won't because the mid is rated better, yet you'll be surprised???

That is the flaw.

We need a tall. We should draft a tall. If they don't they are mad.

Will just agree to disagree.

You're making incorrect assumptions and putting words in my mouth.

I understand it is close to being a contradiction, but if you're smart enough you'll see there is not one.

[Dee Fan 3,247]

I was more interested in what the opposition supporters had to say than what we the Demon faithful did. That said I'm happy with Watts and the more I see of him the more convinced we made the right decision.

There have been several in the media that have shot their load early over NikNat, he only had to be in the frame and they were salivating over him, but as he becomes subject to more scrutiny they are seeing a player that is more show that go, he looks a $1m but plays like 50 cents. He may turn out to be a good player, who knows, but at the moment I'm not going to put my money on it.

Great leap great athleticism and quite big but football ability, hasn't shown much yet.

[rpfc 28,262]

You can teach a player to go harder at the contest (Brad Green is probably the best example), but you can't teach a player the sort of skills that Watts has.

Well said.

Green is the perfect example of someone who - like Jack - prefers to avoid contact (prefers, not actively tries) and has developed that side of his game to the point where he has little regard for his own safety in contests and regularly crashes packs.

But, saying - or infering - the kid has no faults, or he has nothing major to work on - is naive.

One thing I will say though is his workrate has improved out of sight - he's a quick learner.

Edited July 23, 2010 by rpfc

[Hannabal 4]

You can teach a player to go harder at the contest (Brad Green is probably the best example),

Green has always been brave in the air, but has never been overly hard at contests; nor has he been soft for that matter. Not a great example, despite some supporters thinking that he was soft early in his career.

[rpfc 28,262]

Green has always been brave in the air, but has never been overly hard at contests; nor has he been soft for that matter. Not a great example, despite some supporters thinking that he was soft early in his career.

The look on the face of a young Brad Green whenever an opposition was near him in a contest is the same face I see on Jack Watts.

[Hannabal 4]

The look on the face of a young Brad Green whenever an opposition was near him in a contest is the same face I see on Jack Watts.

Jack had the Simon Eisholds when walking into goal last Sunday

[Little Goffy 14,455]

It is of course too early to judge either Natanui or Watts as individual players, though neither look like duds.

BUT

Remembering that many of us were calling for the extra KP forward even in the 09 draft, imagine how rough we'd be looking for our 'forward future' without Watts? We also recruited Watts before there was any Yuendumu magic at our club, and when Ricky Petterd was still a highly unknown factor (though most of us already loved him).

Selecting Watts in 08 has proven to be a drafting masterstroke given that we managed to pick up both Gawn and Fitzpatrick in 09, giving us highly promising ruck stocks for the long term.

To do the reverse would have been impossible - we might have been able to pick up Ben Griffiths or Jake Carlisle at pick 18, but not both, and the cupboard was very bare by pick 30.

[volders 22]

I'd probably take Hill and Hurley over NicNat at this point

[btdemon 482]

By Watts' own admission, he lacked fitness earlier this year. As he builds his engine he will make more contests and make them more effectively. He seems to be drifting around at times but is obviously learning a little each match. He does need to apply that urgency and power to his first few steps of a chase or a lead. I think they may be playing him as a high forward/winger with a view to having him run as much as posible with this in mind. Riewoldt is very damaging without being a 'pack-crasher'. The more I see of Watts the more optimistic I get.

[Hannabal 4]

Riewoldt is very damaging without being a 'pack-crasher'. The more I see of Watts the more optimistic I get.

While not as physical as Carey and Brown, Riewoldt regularly hits packs. Moreso, he shows tremendous courage running full tilt back towards goals (Jonathon Brown and Carey like) in an endeavour to mark in the face of oncoming defenders. If we ever see Watts do that we'll know he's arrived. Btw, I'm not suggesting that he ever has to do that, but it will tell me much about him if I see it - not to mention the football world. Don't hold your breath though.

[Geddy Lee 582]

Riewoldt's mark against the Swans at the SCG is the most courageous thing I've ever seen a player do.

Not a pack crasher? Watch more St Kilda games me thinks.

[Little Goffy 14,455]

Poor Jack, one minute he's being compared to the number 2 pick who filled into his body really early and just looks really, really cool hurling himself into the air and then slipping around panther-like in packs.

The next minute he's being compared to a player who routinely comes into the debate as the most valuable player in the game.

What if he's not as good as Reiwolt?!

What if he's only as good as Richardson, or Neitz, or Tredrea?

Or the horror if he's only as good as someone really no-name like (gasp) Sav Rocca. I'd really hate every one of the six or seven hundred goals he'd dissapoint us with then.

I'm reasonably confident we haven't picked up Kent Kingsley, at least.

[Hannabal 4]

Poor Jack, one minute he's being compared to the number 2 pick who filled into his body really early and just looks really, really cool hurling himself into the air and then slipping around panther-like in packs.

The next minute he's being compared to a player who routinely comes into the debate as the most valuable player in the game.

What if he's not as good as Reiwolt?!

What if he's only as good as Richardson, or Neitz, or Tredrea?

Or the horror if he's only as good as someone really no-name like (gasp) Sav Rocca. I'd really hate every one of the six or seven hundred goals he'd dissapoint us with then.

I'm reasonably confident we haven't picked up Kent Kingsley, at least.

I think I can help.

If he's not as good as Riewoldt, then he's not as good as Riewoldt.

If he's only as good as Neitz, then he's only as good as Neitz.

He was picked at no.1 by the club because they hoped and anticipated that he'll be as good as Riewoldt because they're trying to win a flag. Ultimately he'll be what he'll be.

Hope that helps.

[Deefolt 0]

Nicnat's skills will improve and with time he will become a smarter player, but Watts will never be able to move like he does.

Just wait until Nicnat has had 5 years in the comp, and then try convincing me that MFC made the right choice.

What Jack Watts did at U/18 level was apparently phenomenel hence why he got him over niknat, if there was a guarantee that niknat was going to be better (which there isn't despite what you are adding) then melbourne would have picked him. Last year jamar was finally coming to his own, still not to what he is this year. We could have used a ruckman just as much last year.

I will trust BP 11/10 over you but cheers :D.

And what it shows so far as far as i'm concerned Watts has been the better player and brighter future and will be ready to start opening games up in 2-3 years MAX. That is fantastic for a forward.