BAILEY: defending time is over (thread revisited)

[ICU2 Jerry Jerry 257]

I'm so sick and tired of defending Bailey that iv'e stopped. But being tired of it ain't the reason. The reason I have stopped defending this man is because there is simply nothing to defend anymore.

The "Game plan" seems to involve this "switching at all costs" which is dependant on all players having immaculate foot and hand skills which we simply don't. He simply had to change it this pre-season. He failed. He had 6 months to reset . . . He failed.

He will have to go and our administration once again will look like a basket-case having contracted and then sacked all in the same season.

He's media excuses to supporters are wearing too thin now. I can't hear "Competitive" and "Training" and "Confidence" anymore. Attitude reflects leadership and this poison from the top will breed contempt amongst all who follow.

MFC hear our call and tell us why you believe so unconditionally in this man?

Better still I want Bailey to tell us why we should. Because right now sitting here after 3 floggings in practice matches and a rd 1 belting I need to know why I should accept the team not improving

[Jack7 528]

The board extended his contract becuase they knew we'd be 1-10 and the media would carve him up.How much is he on? If it becomes absolutely untenable like Wallace and Laidley,they will pay him out.You cannot continue another week when it gets to that stage.It will add to the debt and we'll be asked to pay it off under debt demolition for the next few years.

This handball at all costs when you take posession is teaching our new kids the wrong way.When they win the footy,instead of letting their instincs dictate what they do with it,it's now "Shite,i have to handball it" and they handball it 3 feet to a team mate under the hammer,then turnover,goal.This happened 7 times on Saturday,because they're taught by Bailey to handball when you win the footy.He's not letting them make their own decision,he's made the decision for them before they win the footy.Trenners had 7 kicks and 16 handballs,Bruce also had 7 & 16 (thankfully)Jones had 6 & 12,Scully had 9 & 12 and the team had 175 kicks and 176 handballs and Hawks had 247/166.Collingwood had 241/143.

Our kick/handball ratio is 1:1

This is totally wrong Bailey!!!

Let the players run and carry and pump it into the 50,we have good crumbers if the ball hits the deck,it's better than 3 foot handballs/turnovers on Half back.

[biggestred 5,010]

its called keeping possession at all costs.

the only thing that stops us doing this is our skill level. end of story.

the game plan is run and carry. it is also coming along. again it is so that we keep the ball.

unfortunately we have no one/nothing to kick to forward of the centre. do you want a magical forwardline to appear overnight?

[Range Rover 1,935]

Let the players run and carry and pump it into the 50,we have good crumbers if the ball hits the deck,it's better than 3 foot handballs/turnovers on Half back.

I said almost exactly the same thing to the bloke sitting next to me on the members wing on Saturday.

This trying to finesse every single passage of play with chains of handball and dinky little passes is totally beyond their capabilities at this time.

[45HG 1,539]

We have no one to kick to up forward because there is usually no one there, they've all moved up forward to help get the ball.

When we play with confidence, this doesn not happen.

[Roost It 1,434]

The board extended his contract becuase they knew we'd be 1-10 and the media would carve him up.How much is he on? If it becomes absolutely untenable like Wallace and Laidley,they will pay him out.You cannot continue another week when it gets to that stage.It will add to the debt and we'll be asked to pay it off under debt demolition for the next few years.

This handball at all costs when you take posession is teaching our new kids the wrong way.When they win the footy,instead of letting their instincs dictate what they do with it,it's now "Shite,i have to handball it" and they handball it 3 feet to a team mate under the hammer,then turnover,goal.This happened 7 times on Saturday,because they're taught by Bailey to handball when you win the footy.He's not letting them make their own decision,he's made the decision for them before they win the footy.Trenners had 7 kicks and 16 handballs,Bruce also had 7 & 16 (thankfully)Jones had 6 & 12,Scully had 9 & 12 and the team had 175 kicks and 176 handballs and Hawks had 247/166.Collingwood had 241/143.

Our kick/handball ratio is 1:1

This is totally wrong Bailey!!!

Let the players run and carry and pump it into the 50,we have good crumbers if the ball hits the deck,it's better than 3 foot handballs/turnovers on Half back.

The reason we don't kick it is because we currently are unable to handball ourselves out of trouble so as to then be able to kick it. As opposed to when we kick when it usually ends up directly with the opposition. We will however learn this over time. Stop saying we've had time to learn this. The fact remains we haven't and we are yet to get all our draftees on the park. With the players we have recruited it will come. They are extremely talented bunch who need leaders to rise from amongst them, as our current leaders are sub standard. If we had trained all summer with Hodge, Mitchell and Lewis, instead of Bruce, Dunn and Miller, I dare say the Hawthorn forum would be having this conversation and we'd be toasting our revival. Remember the likes of Scully, Grimes and Trengove will one day look up and see Watts, Jurrah and Morton presenting in the forward line, as opposed to Miller, Dunn and Petterd

Edited March 29, 2010 by Roost It

[Axis of Bob 11,671]

Guess what the key message for Geelong is?

It's to give the ball off as soon as you get it. Why? Because the ball moves faster than a person can.

James Hird tonight stood up to Sheahan and Healy when Healy said that Melbourne handballed too much and should kick more. Hird said that if you kick the ball forward then Hawthorn were set up to turn the ball over and send it straight back with interest. Hird was saying that handballing and carrying the ball forward was the right thing to do, but we needed to do it better. Currently we aren't good enough to do it well, and not confident enough to persist with the risks.

Bailey was reappointed because the board, with more information on what's happening, believe in him. They wanted him to coach next year and knew that a bad loss or two would cause the media and supporters to go into meltdown. Can you imagine what the pictures would be on the front of the paper if Bailey was out of contract? The media would already be calling for blood. With Harvey as the only coach out of contract this season now, and with Freo winning, what are they going to fill the papers with now?

But the board sought to head this off because they celieve that Bailey is the right person to coach in 2010 and 2011. And they have more information about what the club is trying to achieve. Deal with it.

[Roost It 1,434]

Guess what the key message for Geelong is?

It's to give the ball off as soon as you get it. Why? Because the ball moves faster than a person can.

James Hird tonight stood up to Sheahan and Healy when Healy said that Melbourne handballed too much and should kick more. Hird said that if you kick the ball forward then Hawthorn were set up to turn the ball over and send it straight back with interest. Hird was saying that handballing and carrying the ball forward was the right thing to do, but we needed to do it better. Currently we aren't good enough to do it well, and not confident enough to persist with the risks.

Bailey was reappointed because the board, with more information on what's happening, believe in him. They wanted him to coach next year and knew that a bad loss or two would cause the media and supporters to go into meltdown. Can you imagine what the pictures would be on the front of the paper if Bailey was out of contract? The media would already be calling for blood. With Harvey as the only coach out of contract this season now, and with Freo winning, what are they going to fill the papers with now?

But the board sought to head this off because they celieve that Bailey is the right person to coach in 2010 and 2011. And they have more information about what the club is trying to achieve. Deal with it.

Nicely put

[Chook 15,012]

Guess what the key message for Geelong is?

It's to give the ball off as soon as you get it. Why? Because the ball moves faster than a person can.

James Hird tonight stood up to Sheahan and Healy when Healy said that Melbourne handballed too much and should kick more. Hird said that if you kick the ball forward then Hawthorn were set up to turn the ball over and send it straight back with interest. Hird was saying that handballing and carrying the ball forward was the right thing to do, but we needed to do it better. Currently we aren't good enough to do it well, and not confident enough to persist with the risks.

Bailey was reappointed because the board, with more information on what's happening, believe in him. They wanted him to coach next year and knew that a bad loss or two would cause the media and supporters to go into meltdown. Can you imagine what the pictures would be on the front of the paper if Bailey was out of contract? The media would already be calling for blood. With Harvey as the only coach out of contract this season now, and with Freo winning, what are they going to fill the papers with now?

But the board sought to head this off because they celieve that Bailey is the right person to coach in 2010 and 2011. And they have more information about what the club is trying to achieve. Deal with it.

Fantastic post. Sounds as if you've put some thought into this.

[Hardnut 327]

Good young footballers are drafted because they have many natural skills - in our game one of the prime skills is kicking - our young players are quite capable of kicking well, even under pressure, as they have been doing it for years (and enjoying it).

A gameplan based on handball is not natural or productive (I will allow Barass' one game exception!) - the first instinct should be to kick - only use handball to release players where necessary and if possible. A 30-40 metre kick is far more productive than a loopy 20 m handball or a 1-2m pressure handball.

I am not advocating long bombs, but don't train young kids to be predictable, handballing, running robots. Football is a simple, kicking game - get that right and wins will come - I am confident our young kids will happily fight for a contested ball if the kick doesn't always work!

[dee-luded 2,959]

I'm so sick and tired of defending Bailey that iv'e stopped. But being tired of it ain't the reason. The reason I have stopped defending this man is because there is simply nothing to defend anymore.

The "Game plan" seems to involve this "switching at all costs" which is dependant on all players having immaculate foot and hand skills which we simply don't. He simply had to change it this pre-season. He failed. He had 6 months to reset . . . He failed.

He will have to go and our administration once again will look like a basket-case having contracted and then sacked all in the same season.

He's media excuses to supporters are wearing too thin now. I can't hear "Competitive" and "Training" and "Confidence" anymore. Attitude reflects leadership and this poison from the top will breed contempt amongst all who follow.

MFC hear our call and tell us why you believe so unconditionally in this man?

Better still I want Bailey to tell us why we should. Because right now sitting here after 3 floggings in practice matches and a rd 1 belting I need to know why I should accept the team not improving

Because we're playing the inexperienced kids, as we did in the preseason.

I don't think its you getting sick of his speal. I think it's you getting sick of being beaten. Thats a great thing.

Seriously, the last 2 seasons were about drafting & teaching those there what to do.

Mortons been going allright, Wonnaemirri & Garland play OK, don't they? Frawley, Grimes, Davey last year?

What the team is lacking is being settled & having strong leadership.

Something we & Bailey don't have to help us.

He's a brave man taking on a tough job.

The talents there, with him & now on our list.

We just have to teach them & let them develope, oops, sorry 'bout that chief.

Lets see what the first 7 games shows us before spitting the proverbial.

[dee-luded 2,959]

Guess what the key message for Geelong is?

It's to give the ball off as soon as you get it. Why? Because the ball moves faster than a person can.

James Hird tonight stood up to Sheahan and Healy when Healy said that Melbourne handballed too much and should kick more. Hird said that if you kick the ball forward then Hawthorn were set up to turn the ball over and send it straight back with interest. Hird was saying that handballing and carrying the ball forward was the right thing to do, but we needed to do it better. Currently we aren't good enough to do it well, and not confident enough to persist with the risks.

Bailey was reappointed because the board, with more information on what's happening, believe in him. They wanted him to coach next year and knew that a bad loss or two would cause the media and supporters to go into meltdown. Can you imagine what the pictures would be on the front of the paper if Bailey was out of contract? The media would already be calling for blood. With Harvey as the only coach out of contract this season now, and with Freo winning, what are they going to fill the papers with now?

But the board sought to head this off because they celieve that Bailey is the right person to coach in 2010 and 2011. And they have more information about what the club is trying to achieve. Deal with it.

Well done BoB, well said.

[Hardnut 327]

Hird actually said to use handball to release players - not the panic, short rubbish we are seeing - a quick release and a good kick or two will work much better!

[Goodvibes 3,596]

Guess what the key message for Geelong is?

Great post Bob

Geelong were a rabble not that long ago when trying to implement a very similar gameplan to the one Bailey has in mind.

Here's a selection of quotes from Ben Jensen who wrote for 'The Cattery' throughout the 2006 season:

"A week after being the Saints, Geelong was comprehensively thrashed by Collingwood at the MCG tonight, in what was universally described as a 'disgrace'."

"While some fans in the Brownlow stand cheered off the Cats, the mood in most other parts of the ground was palpable."

"Skills also let the Cats down. Dropped chest marks when free were the order of the day. Next on the list was poor hand-passing, particularly when under the slightest pressure. And finally kicking, both field and goal, were atrocious."

"It was a very poor display in what should have been a tribute to coach Mark 'Bomber' Thompson."

"Geelong now has very little realistic hope of qualifying for the finals, and even if it did manage to scrape through into seventh or eighth position, what good would it do?"

"WHAT CAN the Cast achieve in the final thirteen rounds of the season? They could improve their skills and anticipation that's for sure; too often handballs and short passes fell short of the target; other times opponents are allowed to slip up and drop the ball only for no Geelong player to be within range to make them pay."

"MORE THAN 600 disgruntled Geelong members turned out at the club's headquarters Wednesday night to demand answers for the team's poor AFL season, but were left disappointed. Members who questioned the club's business plan which predicted a premiership by 2006 were instead told `we will win eventually'."

"The Cats, Brisbane Lions, Essendon, Hawthorn and the Kangaroos had no representatives."

(in reference to All-Australian selection)

The worm can turn very quickly. When confidence is low, skills and workrate drop off very quickly even in an experienced team.

Edited March 29, 2010 by Goodvibes

[Hardnut 327]

Don't worry about the media, get our own house in order and the media will follow! Also don't assume football boards always know best and are always right - the last board appointed Dean Bailey and this one has extended his contract - two out of two ain't bad!?

[Hardnut 327]

At no stage did Geelong try to implement the Bailey game plan - come on!

[ICU2 Jerry Jerry 257]

At no stage did Geelong try to implement the Bailey game plan - come on!

Looks like so many are too scared to dare think that maybe we have got this one wrong?

Also why implement a game plan that might win a game in 4 years time when we can't do it now?

Are we not allowed to win now?

[Jack7 528]

"Hird said that if you kick the ball forward then Hawthorn were set up to turn the ball over and send it straight back with interest."

I disagree with this view as no team can set up to turn the ball over at will.

We had 42 inside 50's,with 21 scores which means that 50% of our inside 50's resulted in a scoring shot,meaning the Hawks couldn't turn over 50% of our inside 50's.

[ICU2 Jerry Jerry 257]

Anyone watching Footy classified?

Still think i'm over the top?

[dee-luded 2,959]

Don't worry about the media, get our own house in order and the media will follow! Also don't assume football boards always know best and are always right - the last board appointed Dean Bailey and this one has extended his contract - two out of two ain't bad!?

Your right, the one some years back oversaw the degredation of our list.

Now we have a great young list with games needed to grow them.

[dee-luded 2,959]

Looks like so many are too scared to dare think that maybe we have got this one wrong?

Also why implement a game plan that might win a game in 4 years time when we can't do it now?

Are we not allowed to win now?

I've been through rebuiding the mighty Dees before. I'm definitely not scared to ponder that or anything.

The thing that scares me is altering off track when we just turning the corner.

Let the boys learn, the results cannot come before the growth.

When the Sun comes up in the morning it takes a while to feel the warmth.

[Goodvibes 3,596]

At no stage did Geelong try to implement the Bailey game plan - come on!

See, there you go, you can detect a gameplan!

[Axis of Bob 11,671]

Handballing to release a player is what we are attempting to do. Bailey hasn't focussed on drafting players that are good kicks because he doesn't think kicking is important. As Hird said, we just need to link up better with our handballing, which will release our players to drive the ball long over the top of the zone that is set up. We got some really good one on one and two on two opportunities when we did link up well and then drove the ball over the zone. We even managed to score from some of these!!

But because we are afraid to take risks in the backline we aren't running forward of the ball confidently enough to get into space. As a result there's nobody to give the attacking handball to and we end up shuffling the ball around defensively, which puts us under pressure.

It's interesting to note that Scully and Trengove, Scully especially, were actually very good at this and took the opposition on whenever they got the ball. These are confident young players who obviously know they are good, so they take the game on. Strauss can do this, but he needs the confidence since h'll end up as an ideal designated defensive kicker. Sam Blease is the sort of player who would help a lot in this regard - he just takes the ball, beats tacklers and delivers really well. Sylvia, too, does this well. But this is the type of play that we need to encourage from our kids.

Our older players don't play this style too well, especially since they were drafted and developed in an era where this style wasn't in vogue. Bruce, Green, McDonald and Moloney were brought in when winning contested ball and kicking long to contests. But zoning, flooding and 'run and carry' have changed the way the game is played, and the result is that players probably need to be more dynamic. Our young players are, but our older players aren't. This means that our senior players aren't suited to the game we are trying to play, so we need to wait until our younger players are good enough to instigate the play and carry the burden.

The dynamic midfielders - Scully, Blease, Trengove, Grimes, Strauss - have played about a dozen games between them. They can't yet carry that burden. But, in time, they will. They may even be able to do it for small periods this year, but you'll get a lot of inconsistency.

[2014-Flag 0]

Great post Bob

Geelong were a rabble not that long ago when trying to implement a very similar gameplan to the one Bailey has in mind.

Here's a selection of quotes from Ben Jensen who wrote for 'The Cattery' throughout the 2006 season:

"A week after being the Saints, Geelong was comprehensively thrashed by Collingwood at the MCG tonight, in what was universally described as a 'disgrace'."

"While some fans in the Brownlow stand cheered off the Cats, the mood in most other parts of the ground was palpable."

"Skills also let the Cats down. Dropped chest marks when free were the order of the day. Next on the list was poor hand-passing, particularly when under the slightest pressure. And finally kicking, both field and goal, were atrocious."

"It was a very poor display in what should have been a tribute to coach Mark 'Bomber' Thompson."

"Geelong now has very little realistic hope of qualifying for the finals, and even if it did manage to scrape through into seventh or eighth position, what good would it do?"

"WHAT CAN the Cast achieve in the final thirteen rounds of the season? They could improve their skills and anticipation that's for sure; too often handballs and short passes fell short of the target; other times opponents are allowed to slip up and drop the ball only for no Geelong player to be within range to make them pay."

"MORE THAN 600 disgruntled Geelong members turned out at the club's headquarters Wednesday night to demand answers for the team's poor AFL season, but were left disappointed. Members who questioned the club's business plan which predicted a premiership by 2006 were instead told `we will win eventually'."

"The Cats, Brisbane Lions, Essendon, Hawthorn and the Kangaroos had no representatives."

(in reference to All-Australian selection)

The worm can turn very quickly. When confidence is low, skills and workrate drop off very quickly even in an experienced team.

Spot on "Goodvibes", in another of my post's today, my point entirely. Bomber was continually under the cosh in the first half of 2006, and he very nearly lost his job along with the then chairman. The Cats supporters were feral.

We are in almost an identical position, except from my memory they (the Cats) had nothing like our injury woes at the beginning of the season.

We will improve over the season - it will just take time, and the return of more of our skilled players. Then I think there will be room to criticise if we do not take the chance to drop some of our more senior players who either have lost some of their skills (eg Miller) or who never had any in the first place (eg Jones). I wonder whether we will have the spine?

[Goodvibes 3,596]

The most obvious difference between us and the Cats of 2006 is the core of experienced players that Geelong had, many of whom became All-Australian 12 months later. If this meany quality players can lose confidence in themselves and each other to such a degree that their basic skills diminish to the point of ridicule then the challenge for our young core devoid of senior leadership is clear for all to see.