Rhino Richards said:

He had the attitude from his junior days in the country.

Talent is worthless unless you actual perform. Actual what is it if you never show it? Hype.

I am a fan of Colin's after the cameos. This is his breakthrough year.

I know, but it should've been corrected early on, and his injuries exacerbated it.

He has over the course of his career shown many flashes and its only in the last year he's started to bring consistent performances.

I agree, he has much to prove, but he was still a good selection and has loads of talent, whether he shows it consistently or not.

Like everyone, I'm not going to say that BP is the best recruiter we have ever had, as his stock is still unproven.

What I will say though, is that whoever was our Recruiting Manager in 2001 would go close to being the worst we have had. I strongly believe Melbourne's premiership window was open (albeit very slightly) in the mid 2000's. We obviously made the GF in 2000, when blokes like Green and Bruce were the young ones, to follow that up with an 11th placing the year after was different to say the least, but then finishing 6th In 2002 showed we still had enough talent to be a competitive finals side. In 2004, 2005 and 2006, we played finals again.

What I am getting at is that surely out of the draft of 2001, considering we had picks 9, 25, and 26, as well as a couple of late ones, we SHOULD have got at least 2 players to make some impact in those 04/05/06 seasons (would have given them a minimum 2 years to develop). But, whatever genius that was in charge for that 2001 draft, made probably the worst 3 choices of any team with 3 picks inside the top 30.

The thing that I suffer from the most is that Melbourne and Geelong were very evenly matched in the early 2000's. Sadly for us, their recruiter's got it right in 2001, ours failed. As a result, we had to bottom out severely, while Geelong have gone on to win 2 flags in the past 3 years. That hurts really bad, especially when my fiance barracks for the Cats!

  Keyser Söze said:

I know, but it should've been corrected early on, and his injuries exacerbated it.

He has over the course of his career shown many flashes and its only in the last year he's started to bring consistent performances.

I agree, he has much to prove, but he was still a good selection and has loads of talent, whether he shows it consistently or not.

Says a lot for the 2003 draft when we are jumping up and down saying we got the best result. While I too enjoyed Sylvia's cameos this year, he has been pretty disappointing for mine, and I will never rate him higher than a solid player until he can string 2-3 years injury-free and playing consistent football. I actually think he is fairly overrated on this site.

I believe McLean has been a more consistent performer since that draft, and rate/rated him higher than Sylvia. I realise that CS has been injury plagued for a lot of his time, but we draft players to play football, and I can only judge their output from what I see on the field, not what is left in the dressing rooms.

With that said, I'll be happy to eat my words should Col come out and cement a place in our top 5 on a weekly basis.

  jnrmac said:

After 2000 the club worked out that we were never going to win a flag with Bizzell and Robbo at CHB and CHF. Too short. They looked at recruiting talls. And guess what it didn't work. Talls take longer to develop and we got unlucky. Smith, Molan a case in point.

Bizzell at Centre Half Back??? I believe he was still running around in the blue and white hoops at that stage... Matty Collins, Ingerson and Nicholson were our key defenders on Grand Final day...

Robbo at Centre Half Forward? Forgetting a man by the name of David Schwartz?

  Rhino Richards said:

Sylvia is 24, played 87 games in six years. We are still waiting on his potential. Despite the cameos last year, it been a lean return. I do hope for better in 2010. But I am not popping corks until we see it.

Below are all the players taken after Colin Sylvia in that draft. Apart from Sam Fisher and Brent Stanton, is there anyone you'd consider taking ahead of Sylvia? I can't find anyone... shows that it was a good recruiting decision at the time... Which is what this is about...

Farren Ray

Brock McLean Kepler Bradley Kane Tenace Raphael Clarke David Trotter Ryley Dunn Beau Waters Ryan Murphy Brent Stanton Fergus Watts Troy Chaplin Josh Willoughby Billy Morrison Llane Spaanderman David Mundy Sam Butler Alex Gilmour Cameron Thurley Matthew Moody Chad Jones Harry Miller Daniel McConnell Adam Campbell Jay Nash Tim Schmidt Brad Symes Joshua Krueger Brayden Shaw Jed Adcock Luke Peel Brent Hall Chris A. Johnson Thomas Roach Mark Blake Robert Foster-Knight Eddie Sansbury Zac Dawson Matthew Spencer Brett Peake Ricky Dyson Amon Buchanan Michael Pettigrew Andrew Eriksen Heath Shaw Tom Logan Izaac Thomson Matthew Ball Daniel Jackson Sam Fisher Brent LeCras Ricky Mott Ben Hudson Matthew Davis Julian Rowe Michael Rischitelli Glen Bowyer Shane Morrison Craig Callaghan Jordan Bannister Brent Hartigan Adrian Deluca Shane Tuck Stephen Kenna Andrew Raines Simon Fletcher Kyle Archibald

  vanlo said:

Sorry - BRENT STANTON?!???

Nice bloke, but as a player..?

Not over Sylvia, not any day.

  Enforcer25 said:

Sorry - BRENT STANTON?!???

Nice bloke, but as a player..?

Not over Sylvia, not any day.

It might appear as though Sylvia has more talent but I imagine Stanton's contributed more to his Club that we've for from Sylvia.

I'm hopeful that'll change though.

  vanlo said:

Bizzell at Centre Half Back??? I believe he was still running around in the blue and white hoops at that stage... Matty Collins, Ingerson and Nicholson were our key defenders on Grand Final day...

Robbo at Centre Half Forward? Forgetting a man by the name of David Schwartz?

I think he meant 2002. All the players you talk of bar Robbo were gone by end of 2002. FWIW, Ox played a very poor 2000 GF and his decline from there to his retirement in mid 2002 pronounced.

  vanlo said:

Below are all the players taken after Colin Sylvia in that draft. Apart from Sam Fisher and Brent Stanton, is there anyone you'd consider taking ahead of Sylvia? I can't find anyone... shows that it was a good recruiting decision at the time... Which is what this is about...

Farren Ray

Brock McLean Kepler Bradley Kane Tenace Raphael Clarke David Trotter Ryley Dunn Beau Waters Ryan Murphy Brent Stanton Fergus Watts Troy Chaplin Josh Willoughby Billy Morrison Llane Spaanderman David Mundy Sam Butler Alex Gilmour Cameron Thurley Matthew Moody Chad Jones Harry Miller Daniel McConnell Adam Campbell Jay Nash Tim Schmidt Brad Symes Joshua Krueger Brayden Shaw Jed Adcock Luke Peel Brent Hall Chris A. Johnson Thomas Roach Mark Blake Robert Foster-Knight Eddie Sansbury Zac Dawson Matthew Spencer Brett Peake Ricky Dyson Amon Buchanan Michael Pettigrew Andrew Eriksen Heath Shaw Tom Logan Izaac Thomson Matthew Ball Daniel Jackson Sam Fisher Brent LeCras Ricky Mott Ben Hudson Matthew Davis Julian Rowe Michael Rischitelli Glen Bowyer Shane Morrison Craig Callaghan Jordan Bannister Brent Hartigan Adrian Deluca Shane Tuck Stephen Kenna Andrew Raines Simon Fletcher Kyle Archibald

Jed Alcock at pick 32 (?) was an AA and a fine player. Ben Hudson has been a capable player at the Crows and the Dogs. But I agree with your assertion that the 2003 draft (Cooney aside) has been a very ordinary draft. To date I dont think Sylvia over that period beyond a few cameos has been much different. So unless 2010 is a break out year and excels, I think the posts that claim Sylvia as more than this at this point and his recruitment as a good reruiting decision are fudging the facts.

Its just MFCs luck we had picks 3 and 5 in a very odinary draft. I hope we have the pick of the crop from the 2008 and 2009 drafts.

  Keyser Söze said:

I know, but it should've been corrected early on, and his injuries exacerbated it.

The only person who could have "corrected" Colin Sylvia's attitude is Colin Sylvia. Obviously there's ways to 'encourage' the correct behaviour, but ultimately you just have to wait until the penny drops. Then we just have to hope that it's a persistent change and not a fleeting one.

  Nasher said:

The only person who could have "corrected" Colin Sylvia's attitude is Colin Sylvia. Obviously there's ways to 'encourage' the correct behaviour, but ultimately you just have to wait until the penny drops. Then we just have to hope that it's a persistent change and not a fleeting one.

Well put Nasher. The ball is now well and truly in Colin's court to blossom.

  Nasher said:

The only person who could have "corrected" Colin Sylvia's attitude is Colin Sylvia. Obviously there's ways to 'encourage' the correct behaviour, but ultimately you just have to wait until the penny drops. Then we just have to hope that it's a persistent change and not a fleeting one.

I wonder how he might go without McLean there. They were good friends and I always imagined McLean to be a positive influence on him despite his indescretions. He might be better out of Mcleans Shadow, could go either way.

  Peanuts said:

I've not had time to read the whole thread but from what I've seen the major point has been missed.

BP has had the easiest gig in the book to date. I could have picked Watts and Blease and I could have picked Scully, Trengove and Tapscott.

But you didn't.

Someone else did. Just because they are 'no-brainers' does not mean that a recruiter shouldn't get credit, or blame, as the case may be.

The early ones are the ones you HAVE to get right because that is, usually, where the talent is.

CAC was a failure of a recruiter simply because irrespective of the picks we had available, he failed to draft enough talent to prevent the club from bottoming out and rightfully deserved the sack for this.

This is the ultimate test of a recruiter and CAC failured in this area whilst other clubs at varying degrees were able to achieve success.

  rpfc said:

But you didn't.

Neither did anyone but BP.

Praising BP now is premature. We are basking in the Trengove/Scully double but it's quite possible that Martin, Morabito and Butcher end up being more valuable footballers. Watts may still be a bust. I don't think either of these scenarios are likely but they are possible.

Teams, as I'm sure you know, require elite players who generally come from the early picks (something CAC didn't have post TJ) but they also require good players from down the draft. Geelong have Chapman, Enright, Rooke, Johnson and Ling. Saints have Montagna, Milne, Gilbert, Baker and Fisher. Good teams have later picks that excel when measured against their draft selection.

Of course recruiting managers are measured against all picks but the good ones find the gems late in the draft as well as getting the early picks right. At this stage BP cannot be judged.

And Grant, how many successful clubs haven't bottomed out or received some unique advantage over the other teams. I can think of one and perhaps two. IMO there is no team that has won a flag in the last 6 or 7 years who hasn't had a lot of early picks or some advantage. Some have had both.

Your measuring stick is flawed.

Way to early to make that call on Prendergast.

He'll live and die by the picks he made in the 10 - 20 range, particularly blokes like Blease, Gysberts, Tapscott, Strauss etc

These are the types of picks where a recruiter earns (or doesn't deserve) his pay packet.

  Peanuts said:

BP has had the easiest gig in the book to date. I could have picked Watts and Blease and I could have picked Scully, Trengove and Tapscott. That was easy. Gysberts is a bit out of left field so BP will be judged on that. Jurrah doesn't count as he wasn't available for the ND last year and while all clubs could see the talent the "punt" was on him adjusting to Melbourne city life. That is a job for the player development staff, not the recruiter.

The fact is BP chose them rather than others and he lives or dies by them. I can see no discernible reason you separate out Gysberts from the others, They are BP decisions. So is Jurrah. We punted on him in the ND. Other Clubs could have gone for Jurrah. They didn't and they live with the consequences.

  Peanuts said:

BP will be judged on Bennell, Jetta, Bail, Gawn, Fitzgerald, McKenzie and Healy.

Unfortunately he wont judged solely on that. He need to have some of those players click. And cred loss if a rookie does not make. If BP cannot recruit players who become stars out of our Top 20 draft picks particularly those after Watts, Scully and Trengove then he is going to have a damaged scorecard indeed.